Upgrading a T42 nearly as T42p but I have problems

[GraphiX]

Hello and welcome everyone. I'm new here. And I have avlot of questions for the forum to upgrade my T42.

My acquaintance with ThinkPad goes back a long way. The first computer that entered our home was a ThinkPad purchased in 2000. I don't remember the model of this computer, but it was both an emotional and nostalgic memory for me, but our ThinkPad didn't end well and I broke it one day while keeping it despite it being broken and it went to the trash. For this reason, I wanted to take a journey into the past in May.

I am a person who values ​​nostalgia. For this reason, in May, I bought two ThinkPad T42s, one with a faulty motherboard to be used as a spare part but in good condition, and one that worked but had cosmetic flaws. These cost around 2800 units in my country's currency.

The reason I bought this was because there was no 3D accelerator for Win9x in the virtual machine, my curiosity for nostalgia and my desire to have the beefiest Win9x/Dos supported setup I could have.

However, there is a problem, and that is that the ThinkPad I bought was really low in terms of configuration. This computer with its 32mb Radeon 7500 and 1.5-1.7 GHz processor was definitely not what I had imagined. Then I learned that the model I really needed to have was a T42p. However, in the country I live in, it is quite difficult to find a T42 that is in good condition and has all its functions working, let alone a T42p.

After the lags I experienced in GTA VC, I got angry and examined the device a little more deeply. I saw that the only difference between the T42/T42p variants is the CPU, integrated GPU chipset and heatsink. In other words, unlike the MSI VECTOR GP-77 I ​​have, it has been developed with an upgradeable structure. (I have 4 active laptops.) Then I started my research and ordered the heatsink for the T43/T43p and the FireGL T2 GPU chipset coded 216YBFCGA16FH from China. The reason I prefer the T43 block for the heatsink is because it is the same block used in the T42p. No doubt this is what I am looking for and wanting.

However, due to the ridiculous Customs Rules in the country I live in, I am not allowed to import anything over 30€ and I have to pay 60% tax in addition to the shipping fee. So when it comes to upgrading the CPU, I couldn't find a Pentium M 765 or M 755 variant for less than 30€, but I found a Pentium M 760 used in T43s that are compatible with the 749 socket for $5. Frankly, I want to balance the cost since I paid for the heatsink, GPU chipset and the non-working IDE to mSata adapter, and frankly I have no other alternative, but I am afraid that the processor will create compatibility problems or will not fit into the socket, meaning that the money I paid will be wasted. Or I am afraid that it will ruin my motherboard or my project due to heat issues. If the 760 is compatible with this model, I will order it immediately and move on to my problems about the IDE to mSata nightmare. Thanks in advance for your help.

[GraphiX]

Also, what other advice do you have for this project?

At the end of the day, I plan to use 2 GB RAM and 64 GB mSata SSD.

However, I read that T42s often experience solder and South Bridge failures due to heat. What are your advices to prevent this? Which thermal pads should I apply to which parts and which brand of thermal paste should I use? What advice can you give me when I go to disassemble the GPU and assemble a new one? What procedures should I have my motherboard do.

I will only use the computer to run old games and operating systems. For security reasons, I do not plan to play any games released after GTA SA and Underground 2.

So I have no intention of accessing the internet or installing Linux.

If necessary, I can give up things like the Wifi Card, Bluetooth card and Connect Card slot for better heat dissipation. I am open to your advices and guides.

Also, you can share products under 30€ with me.

If there is no bottleneck problem with the 128 MB T2, I can leave the processor as is.

I want to keep it in a healthier way. Do you think I should use a cooler or a stand?

[RealBlackStuff]

Welcome to the Forum.
Have a look here: viewtopic.php?t=128377

[GraphiX]

Welcome to the Forum.
Have a look here: viewtopic.php?t=128377

OK, as far as I understand, 760 is not a valid option, so should I use a processor with 478 pins or 479 pins? Does the number of sockets of the processor I use make a difference?

[dr_st]

CPU is the simple thing. A 745/755 will work off the bat. The CPUs from T43 will need a mod, like mentioned in that thread RBS linked you to.

GPU is a different ballgame. How do you plan to desolder the old GPU and solder the new one? Are they even the same package size? (I don't know)
You may need a new board with a Radeon 9600/FireGL T2 to start.

And then there is even the question - whether that generation is ideal for Win98 gaming (it was released for WinXP). There are varying opinions on the matter:
viewtopic.php?t=121958

[GraphiX]

CPU is the simple thing. A 745/755 will work off the bat. The CPUs from T43 will need a mod, like mentioned in that thread RBS linked you to.

GPU is a different ballgame. How do you plan to desolder the old GPU and solder the new one? Are they even the same package size? (I don't know)
You may need a new board with a Radeon 9600/FireGL T2 to start.

And then there is even the question - whether that generation is ideal for Win98 gaming (it was released for WinXP). There are varying opinions on the matter:
viewtopic.php?t=121958

Of course, I will go to a specialist for this. This is not something I can dare to do on my own. However, it was said here that this is possible and what is needed is a new cooling system and GPU. Is there a manual that should be consulted regarding the disassembly and assembly process?
viewtopic.php?t=55123

But I am confused about the processor. Some T42 compatible processors are 478 Pin and some are 479 Pin, will both of these work?

[dr_st]

The hardware maintenance manual for T40/T40p,T41/T41p,T42/T42p is what you need. It will explain everything you need to know about disassembly and reassembly and list the relevant parts.

For cooling a 9600/T2 you will need the long heatsink/fan combo, which includes the GPU plate. The short one (which is what came with the Radeon 7500) will not do. Both T42 and T43 had long fan variants and they are compatible.

All T42 processors are the same. They are sometimes listed as 478, sometimes as 479. However, you need the PGA (pin) variant to use with the socket. The BGA variant is used for soldering directly on the board.

[GraphiX]

The hardware maintenance manual for T40/T40p,T41/T41p,T42/T42p is what you need. It will explain everything you need to know about disassembly and reassembly and list the relevant parts.

For cooling a 9600/T2 you will need the long heatsink/fan combo, which includes the GPU plate. The short one (which is what came with the Radeon 7500) will not do. Both T42 and T43 had long fan variants and they are compatible.

All T42 processors are the same. They are sometimes listed as 478, sometimes as 479. However, you need the PGA (pin) variant to use with the socket. The BGA variant is used for soldering directly on the board.

I just removed the processor from my broken donor T42 unlike the GPU, it can be easily removed. and found that it uses a SL7EP. I'm about to order a 755 but where can I find this pin adapter?

As I said before, I ordered the T43 long dual pipe wide heatsink. All that's left is to find a good BGA assembler.

[Gonzaleitor]

GTA VC runs awful in Windows 98, the T42 is perfectly capable of running it butter smooth, but something in that OS cause the game to lag often. If you want to keep Win98, but also play GTA VC I suggest a dual boot with Win2k or XP(My main retro gaming laptop now is my T42p, I used to have it with a dual boot with 98se and XP, but ended only with XP, it's easier to get the games working there and you have more room for games without another OS).
In respect to the subject of changing the GPU, i wouldn't risk it, you may get a dead mobo with a high cost.
The CPUs are different generations, and use different FSBs, so the CPU may work right out the bat, but will run at lower clock speeds. Also, the reason i didn't upgrade the CPU(1.7ghz) in my T42 is because the GPU is the biggest bottleneck.
On the cooling side, get the long heatsink as others stated, I use a 2mm thermal pad over the GPU and Arctic MX-6 over the GPU. I suggest the Notebook Hardware Control for undervolting your CPU, works great. In my T43 I use the Wifi Card(deactivated) as a heatsink for the southbridge with a 2mm thermal pad. The brand of thermal pads i use is Gelid.
Awesome machine the T42. And the T4x is my favorite generation, I have a T42, T42p and T43 .
Edit: Don't get an MSata to IDE, buy an M2 to IDE, you can get bigger SSDs for a fraction of the price of a MSata Drive

[GraphiX]

GTA VC runs awful in Windows 98, the T42 is perfectly capable of running it butter smooth, but something in that OS cause the game to lag often. If you want to keep Win98, but also play GTA VC I suggest a dual boot with Win2k or XP(My main retro gaming laptop now is my T42p, I used to have it with a dual boot with 98se and XP, but ended only with XP, it's easier to get the games working there and you have more room for games without another OS).
In respect to the subject of changing the GPU, i wouldn't risk it, you may get a dead mobo with a high cost.
The CPUs are different generations, and use different FSBs, so the CPU may work right out the bat, but will run at lower clock speeds. Also, the reason i didn't upgrade the CPU(1.7ghz) in my T42 is because the GPU is the biggest bottleneck.
On the cooling side, get the long heatsink as others stated, I use a 2mm thermal pad over the GPU and Arctic MX-6 over the GPU. I suggest the Notebook Hardware Control for undervolting your CPU, works great. In my T43 I use the Wifi Card(deactivated) as a heatsink for the southbridge with a 2mm thermal pad. The brand of thermal pads i use is Gelid.
Awesome machine the T42. And the T4x is my favorite generation, I have a T42, T42p and T43 .
Edit: Don't get an MSata to IDE, buy an M2 to IDE, you can get bigger SSDs for a fraction of the price of a MSata Drive

Since I could not realize my dream SSD conversion, I continue to work with the disk that came with my purchase. Of course, my plan has been to do Dual boot from the very beginning, but the fact that these devices run Win9x still attracts my attention. That's why I didn't give that detail. There are also boot issues due to the BIOS battery being dead, so I had to stay with WinXP and postpone my dual boot project. I have absolutely no trust in these slow running IDE drives that have been around for over 20 years. That's why my GTA VC performance never appealed to me.
I wanted to install another game to try and tried Crazy Taxi High Roller 3 but it didn't work at all. A better GPU is definitely what this device deserves. It feels like its potential is limited.

I found an affordable 755 and even a 765 for $20, but it doesn't say anything about socket types. It could be one of 468 or 469. It is said that my device has 469 sockets, what should I do in this case? To be able to use a 468 socket processor? Is it possible to have the BGA procedure done at the same location? Or is it just plug and play?

Also, do I need to apply both thermal pad and thermal paste to the GPU at the same time? I don't understand this.

Thanks for all your advice and help, the T40 series truly feels like a dream. Its iconic design impresses with its 4:3 screen and compactness.

[Gonzaleitor]

If you take your heatsink out, cleaning it and applying new thermal paste is a must.
https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Intel_Pentium_M_(Dothan)
The link above will help you with your CPU decision, it lists the compatible CPUs.
Never played Crazy Taxi High Roller 3, so I can't help you with that but from looking it up, you need 64MB minimum, your radeon 7500 won't run it.

[dr_st]

I found an affordable 755 and even a 765 for $20, but it doesn't say anything about socket types.

As long as it's a PGA CPU (with pins) it will fit. And who would be selling a BGA CPU anyway? They'd have to first desolder it from a board somewhere.

[GraphiX]

I found an affordable 755 and even a 765 for $20, but it doesn't say anything about socket types.

As long as it's a PGA CPU (with pins) it will fit. And who would be selling a BGA CPU anyway? They'd have to first desolder it from a board somewhere.

Translation error. Actually I wanted to ask, if 755 causes an incompatibility, (If there is such a possibility.) can I have the socket-related incompatibility soluiton or PGA thing (I don't know what does it mean.) done at the same place where I will have a BGA made for the GPU?

[independent]

Just a general statement from a vague memory is those chip BGA problems were a physical issue and I don't remember the problems being due to heat. A twist in the board could easily damage them.

[Gonzaleitor]

As long as it's a PGA CPU (with pins) it will fit. And who would be selling a BGA CPU anyway? They'd have to first desolder it from a board somewhere.

Translation error. Actually I wanted to ask, if 755 causes an incompatibility, (If there is such a possibility.) can I have the socket-related incompatibility soluiton or PGA thing (I don't know what does it mean.) done at the same place where I will have a BGA made for the GPU?

755 is compatible with your T42

[RealBlackStuff]

CPUs that will work in the T42/p:

Dothan (standard-voltage, 90 nm)

Model Number sSpec Nr. Frequency
Pentium M 710 SL7V5 (B1) 1400 MHz
Pentium M 715 SL7GL (B1) 1500 MHz
Pentium M 725 SL7EG (B1) 1600 MHz
Pentium M 735 SL7EP (B1) 1700 MHz
Pentium M 745 SL7EN (B1) 1800 MHz
Pentium M 755 SL7EM (B1) 2000 MHz
Pentium M 765 SL7V3 (B1) 2100 MHz

[TPFanatic]

Radeon 9600 and FireGL T2 are substantially the same. VRAM difference is really irrelevant for games older than the T42 that you’d even want to play on a T42.

I was under the impression Windows XP had some DOS compatibility but dual booting XP and 98SE seems smart to me.

If i was building a T4x machine id go for R52 or T43 and remove the WLAN card, use full-size dock to add more storage. While IDE is annoying at least it makes the period correct noises. IDE Ssd would be my choice for t43/r52 because of the stupid ide-sata bridge. Unfortunately with your economy you are oppressed and i am sympathetic.

Z60m might be of consideration for win 9x, come to think of it, and it least that supports sata from the factory

[GraphiX]

Just a general statement from a vague memory is those chip BGA problems were a physical issue and I don't remember the problems being due to heat. A twist in the board could easily damage them.

Excuse me, could you explain a little more, if you don't mind? I don't understand anything

[GraphiX]

Greetings again to everyone. It looks like the seller doesn't have a PM755 or PM765 in stock. In this case, I have to use 760 or 770. How do I make the necessary pin modification for this? Is there a guide on this?

[TPFanatic]

I am doubtful you will notice a difference between Pentium M 1.5-1.7 ghz and even the fastest Pentium M. You can spend the money if you wish but for classic gaming it doesn't matter.

The same 3D games I played on my T42p, I also played on my dad's Hitatchi Visiondesk with a Pentium II triple-booting XP, 98, and 95.

T42 is already overkill, if the games aren't playing properly, it is an optimization problem. Overcompensating with overpriced "premium tier" parts will not solve that problem.

I recommend you not pinmod and instead just get a T43p, T43 with ATI X300, or literally any other computer, maybe T60 or T500 will make you happier with Windows XP.

[Gonzaleitor]

I am doubtful you will notice a difference between Pentium M 1.5-1.7 ghz and even the fastest Pentium M. You can spend the money if you wish but for classic gaming it doesn't matter.

The same 3D games I played on my T42p, I also played on my dad's Hitatchi Visiondesk with a Pentium II triple-booting XP, 98, and 95.

T42 is already overkill, if the games aren't playing properly, it is an optimization problem. Overcompensating with overpriced "premium tier" parts will not solve that problem.

I recommend you not pinmod and instead just get a T43p, T43 with ATI X300, or literally any other computer, maybe T60 or T500 will make you happier with Windows XP.

Í can't speak on behalf of the OP, but maybe he is doing this for the thrill of maxing out his laptop and not only from the performance side of it.

Graphix, 760 and 770 are 533FSB CPUs, you won't get a better performance from them. Maybe, and I'm saying maybe because I don't know, you'll get a similar performance with a couple degrees less(my supossition being that the CPU will work at a lower FSB than it was designed for, thus drawing less power, meaning less heat).

[TPFanatic]

The money to splurge on overpriced-when-new, even-more-overpriced-when-obsolete, premium parts comes from hard labor.

Before converting hard labor into a 22 year old platform that is already capable of playing Y2K games as-is, i strongly recommend applying some reason to this madness.

[Gonzaleitor]

The money to splurge on overpriced-when-new, even-more-overpriced-when-obsolete, premium parts comes from hard labor.

Before converting hard labor into a 22 year old platform that is already capable of playing Y2K games as-is, i strongly recommend applying some reason to this madness.

I know, i suffer from it too. But hey, why am I working if I can't enjoy spending my money!

[GraphiX]

Frankly, the feeling of modifying and creating something new, finding the pieces and putting them together in that process gives me pleasure. This project will not be completed immediately, I may have to keep the pieces in my hands for months. Think of it like restoring a classic car. When I was a kid, this kind of technology was very expensive. I never really got to enjoy it. The only thing that bothers me now is the spending limit at Customs and the high taxes.

[TPFanatic]

frankly you dont even need to pinmod the 533mhz fsb CPU for it to work, it'll just run slower.

power to you if this is what you want to do. t42 is a rather awful model for reliabilty though. i drive classic cars myself but i specifically only drive reliable classic cars that have withstood the test of time. t42 has not.