T42 Black screen

[Ken Edmonds]

I've had a T42 for the last six months or so and been well pleased with it.
Suddenly a few days ago the screen went black and everything else seemed to continue running.
The only way out is to hold the power switch until it shuts down. Shutting the lid doesn't put it into standby, it just carries on running.

Restart and it's fine for a few minutes then it does it again.

I don't think it's the usual GPU problem as it always starts up again with the screen working perfectly. Also I have another T42 I bought for spares which appears to have the usual problem and it behaves in a totally different way.

I'm even struggling to be sure whether it's software or hardware.

Any suggestions?

Edit to add I'm running Windows XP with Service pack 3.

[Neil]

You could boot up a Linux LiveCD to eliminate the software question, but it's most likely a failing CCFL (LCD lamp). Does the display look at all pink when started cold?

[Ken Edmonds]

The screen's perfect until it goes off, no discolouration or fading. When it goes, it's instant black.

I've booted from Hiren's boot CD several times and it appears fine but first I tried the Ultimate Boot CD and it went off. I only tried the Ultimate once so I'll try that again and see what happens.

It doesn't appear to have anything to do with heat as it will restart immediately with never a problem - until it goes again.

[Johan]

Just a hint: Try check your RAM... see the thread Intermittent Issues for a link to memtest86+

Have you tried running PC Doctor? If you don't have it installed, the thread IBM T60 strange behaviour will point you to the version you'll need (1ety48ww.exe).

Johan

[Ken Edmonds]

Well I've confirmed it's hardware, the next question is what bit.
I tried to run Memtest from Hiren's Boot CD and, apart from being unable to run due to no virtual memory, the screen went black again.

I know it's not the CCFL as I've had that previously on a laptop and the screen is completely black. Tomorrow, as it's nearly midnight here, I'll try with both memory sticks individually. I've got PC Doctor, so if it will run long enough I'll try that too.

[Ken Edmonds]

I've tried both sodimms individually and as I find it hard to believe they've both died in the same way I guess it must be the motherboard. The question is, what exactly is wrong with it and more to the point is it scrap or fixable?

To be going on with I think I'll remove what comes apart easily, clean everything with switch cleaner and put it all back together again.

[Neil]

There is a good chance the BGA of the Southbridge or GPU, or both, is beginning to fail. The repair, a pro re-ball, is likely more expensive than an old T42 is worth. Might just be better to sell off the working parts, and apply the proceeds to a newer model.

Edit: Changed my mind...I skimmed over the part where you said both RAM stick tested bad. That's your problem right there. It reminded me that my A31p was doing exactly the same thing a while back. Only one RAM stick was bad in my case, but replacing it with a good solved the problem.

[RealBlackStuff]

If all else fails, you could contact Nick at www.reflowrepairs.co.uk in Newcastle or PM him under poshgeordie.
He might also have a replacement board.

[Ken Edmonds]

Thanks for the reply Neil but I'm not quite with you there.
I started with both sticks installed so I took out the "extra" one from underneath with the same result. Then I swapped the one I took out for the standard under-keyboard stick and again got the same problem. I can't really believe that both sticks have failed in the same way at exactly the same time. I'll try to run PC Doctor but the question is will it run long enough and I suspect it won't.

My initial thought was BGA but my spares T42, which is stuffed, will sometimes have a display, sometimes not and prodding or twisting can change it.

No prodding or twisting affects this and after it's happened it will fire up straight away as if nothing was wrong. The Thinkpad display has never failed to appear immediately.

Apart from being somewhat aggrieved (British understatement) I'd mind a lot less if I could actually work out what the problem is but it's not making any sense.

Edit:
Thanks for the tip about reflow repairs. I looked at the site when I bought the spares T42 but this one hasn't got any of the usual symptoms, never breaks up, never blank when switched on, doesn't need moving - just goes black as if a monitor was switched off.

Might be a clue there with a power feed of some sort but why's it always OK again a few seconds later when I switch on again...

[Neil]

Is there any way to test the RAM in a different machine, or try other RAM sticks in this T42? Could possibly isolate either the RAM or the motherboard that way.

[Ken Edmonds]

Unfortunately not, I seem to recall the R51e is different although I can't remember how - DDR probably - and the 600X and 570E are stone age in laptop terms.

I'll try testing it in the spares machine, sometimes it will work for a while if I'm careful and don't disturb it.

[Ken Edmonds]

Going back to my post a couple up, it's just dawned on me I had a point but hadn't noticed.

It doesn't have to be the video signal that's going, it could be the power to the display. That presumably is a different part. Inverter?

Still doesn't explain why it always works perfectly 10 seconds later though.

[RealBlackStuff]

R51e and T42 can use the same DDR PC2100/PC2700/PC3200 RAM.
Inverters can "burn out" eventually.
They have to provide continuous 700-800V with a peak of 1350V at startup, all this from max. 16V input.
Worth a shot.

[Ken Edmonds]

Wow, that's some volts!
My plan was to change the LCD from the spares machine to this one eventually anyway as it's slightly better. Having just read the HMM it looks like they started with the inverter and built the machine around it. A long job...

When I got the T42 I handed the R51e down to my lady and I had an idea I tried to "borrow" some of the memory while I was getting more and failed. Speaking of memory, this old age lark's a pain in the butt.

[RealBlackStuff]

Remove just the LCD bezel, and you can already access the inverter for replacement.

[Ken Edmonds]

True - I wonder why IBM say you have to dismantle most of the machine.

Well, I swapped the inverter and it's much better, in fact I'm typing this on it, but it's not completely cured, just less often.

There must be a clue there somewhere.

Edit: Not less often - not as soon. It went 10 seconds after I posted.

[RealBlackStuff]

Well, I'd say you have a broken/burnt-through CCFL-tube.
It works while cold, then stops when heating up.
Cools down, works again, etc. etc.

[Ken Edmonds]

It certainly appears not to be the motherboard which is a relief. It's been running on an external monitor for the last 17 hours without a twitch. Admittedly, it's just been sat there with no usage or movement but it's a start.

I've just switched to both displays so I'll see what happens next.

[Ken Edmonds]

Confused now - again.
Switched to both displays, woke it up from standby with Fn a couple of times and went out. Came back 5 - 6 hours later, woke it up no problem. Looked again 30 minutes later and both screens black, no keys worked so switched off.

[ajkula66]

Confused now - again.
Switched to both displays, woke it up from standby with Fn a couple of times and went out. Came back 5 - 6 hours later, woke it up no problem. Looked again 30 minutes later and both screens black, no keys worked so switched off.

That sounds like a GPU on its way out, I'm sorry to say.

[Ken Edmonds]

Sadly, I'm inclined to agree. I switched on to external display only and despite running for 17 hours yesterday, today it managed less than 15 minutes.

[poshgeordie]

Hi to everyone as I've not been here for months - and to Ken too. I just happened to check out the forum answering some messages, and came across this.

This seems very typical of an unsoldered GPU, but I'm no longer reballing so unfortunately can't help you.

Also there's so many cowboys around and I'm not aware of any other company that's actually capable of of doing the work.

BTW all the reflowing and reballing equipment is up for sale for a silly price so there'a a bargain to be had..... might try it on Marketplace soon but if anyone's interested PM me.

Hope you're all well and keep in touch.

Best wishes Nick

[Ken Edmonds]

Bum, to coin a phrase.

I've bought a T60 to be going on with from a well-known auction site which is due for delivery on Monday.

Never having even seen one I might love it but I really liked the T42 and was planning on contacting Nick about reballing one of the two duff motherboards I've got. So much for Plan A.

Re the equipment, if it had been only a few years ago I could well have enquired but at 61 in a couple of weeks...

[Tim82]

R51e and T42 can use the same DDR PC2100/PC2700/PC3200 RAM.

According to http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:R51e and IBM/Lenovo's own ltwbook, that statement isn't true. R51e uses DDR2 RAM modules (PC2-4200 from factory) and 533 MHz FSB Dothan Pentium M/Celeron CPUs, like R52/T43/X41/Z60. (And the R51e is a very strange and unique machine with its unusual integrated Radeon Xpress 200M among Thinkpads instead of the favored integrated Intel GPUs.)

The reason of the confusion is maybe in the model numbers, because the "normal", not "economy" or "educational" R51 uses DDR RAM and 400 MHz FSB Pentium M CPU, like the T42.

Ken Edmonds: you'll like the T60, there are very minor differences between a 14" T42 and a 14" T60 (in looks). Even but today's standards, the T60 can hold up its own. (Only major bottleneck - for me - is the limited 3 GB amount of RAM, but for now, it's fairly enough for my usage behavior.)

[RealBlackStuff]

Thanks for that R51e clarification, didn't know that.
I've never seen one, because I tend to stay away from those 'castrated' economy models, such as R50e, R51e, R60e, R61e etc.

[Ken Edmonds]

Tim, thanks for the info about the memory. I didn't think I was cracking up but I did wonder.

The T60 should be a 15" but I'll find out on Monday.

I avoid the poverty spec machines as a rule too but it was stupid cheap - or more accurately a straight swap for another stupid cheap laptop - 30 quid I think.

[RealBlackStuff]

If it is indeed a dirt-cheap 15" T60, you could do worse than spend the 'savings' on a UXGA LED-backlit LCD!
Check the website in my signature.

[Ken Edmonds]

Sorry, not clear enough, it was the R51e that was stupid cheap.

The T60 is a good deal if it's as described: 15" 4:3, 1.83 GHz Core 2 Duo, 1.5GB RAM, 80GB, and DVD/RW for £120 but transatlantic shipping would drastically change the bottom line!

[Tim82]

Thanks for that R51e clarification, didn't know that.
I've never seen one, because I tend to stay away from those 'castrated' economy models, such as R50e, R51e, R60e, R61e etc.

I agree with your opinion. Sometimes this "castration" means only the lack of docking connector (which is a dealbreaker to me), sometimes even worse - the lack of wifi and/or bluetooth cards and antennas. Only the R51e interests me a little because of its weirdness, I would love to see and tinker with a 14"-sized one in the future. (Good thing it has Express Card/54 and Cardbus slots like the R52 and T43 and I'm curious that the Radeon Xpress 200M can really do better than Intel GMA 900 - I suppose it can and still suck less power than the dedicated X300 GPUs. Maybe even Aero-capable, but that would be a surprise for me.)

But only to tinker with: we have four fully functioning Thinkpads in our household (Thinkpads in my signature and my girlfriend has a 15" T42p and recently a WSXGA+ T500 with Intel graphics) and two projects (X61t, Z61p) and that's more than enough.

The T60 should be a 15" but I'll find out on Monday.

The 15" T60 is indeed a great machine too. As RealBlackStuff said, it is a great candidate for an IPS screen swap (if not has one already). If your future T60 has an SXGA+ (1400 * 1050) or an UXGA (1600 * 1200) screen, you have an IPS panel already.

You can get 3 GB RAM as maximum, an SSD (SATA I is theoretically a bottleneck, but in daily use you'll hardly feel it), and (with a white-listed BIOS) you can install for a little extra storage space a mini PCI-e SD or microSD reader in the T60's second mini PCI-e slot.

[Ken Edmonds]

Our R51e is a good machine, despite being a bit plastic when used to the more upmarket ThinkPads. It's 15", has a gig of memory, the same cpu as the failed T42 and built-in wi-fi. It doesn't have the same feel of quality and it's a bit heavier but in use it's definitely as good and I wouldn't knock it. I wouldn't have considered one if I'd gone looking for a laptop and I'd have been wrong.

Since the T42 died I've had to temporarily go back to my 600X which works perfectly but glacially slow by comparison. The PCMCIA wireless network card seems to take a lot of resources. It doesn't seem fair to snatch the R51e back from my lady.

I didn't particularly want an IPS panel display. With deteriorating old eyes I don't think a greater pixel count with smaller text would be an advantage. Greater detail's good but not if you can't read it! 10 - 12 years ago I used the 560X happily without specs and only stopped using it when I started to struggle with the small screen. Now I need them for the 19" monitor on this desktop PC.