Would you buy a T43 today?

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kfzhu1229 · #151 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:01 pm

[quote="ajkula66"You'll need the LCD bezel, that much is certain. The rest *should* be the same, as in the lid itself. Not certain about the hinges, check the HMM.[/quote]
I know I must need to switch the LCD bezel and now I am stuck with a 15" A30 bezel which does not have bluetooth button on the clear plate as the A30p ones are not available on eBay. The HMM doesn't help you in that category because it categorizes the entire back, small parts inside the LCD, and front panel into one part number and called it a kit. Hinges all have 26P9641 as part number. Also I discovered that my type number doesn't match the model. On HMM it says my 2652-AU2 is an A31 with the lowest spec possible except for HDD and DVDROM - a 1.4ghz P4 processor, 14.1" XGA, 30GB HDD, 128mb RAM, etc. even though the one in my hand has 20gb HDD. If not, how come it has a Radeon 7k, Pentium III and SDRAM slots...

ajkula66 · #152 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:04 pm

kfzhu1229 wrote: Also I discovered that my type number doesn't match the model. On HMM it says my 2652-AU2 is an A31 with the lowest spec possible except for HDD and DVDROM - a 1.4ghz P4 processor, 14.1" XGA, 30GB HDD, 128mb RAM, etc. even though the one in my hand has 20gb HDD. If not, how come it has a Radeon 7k, Pentium III and SDRAM slots...

What model number are you seeing in BIOS? Not that it couldn't have been changed.

Do you have BT installed to begin with - only certain "p" models came with it - It's somewhat of a PITA to set it on a A3x that didn't have it originally since you have to literally rip the entire machine apart...

kfzhu1229 · #153 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:07 pm

ajkula66 wrote:What model number are you seeing in BIOS? Not that it couldn't have been changed.

I checked the BIOS, and it still says 2652-AU2 while the manual told me that is an A31. But I legibly have a Pentium III M processor with the unofficial 1.2ghz (Only A30p comes with 1.2ghz). The models for A30 on the manual all start with a number instead of 'A' after the bar line.

ajkula66 wrote:Do you have BT installed to begin with - only certain "p" models came with it - It's somewhat of a PITA to set it on a A3x that didn't have it originally since you have to literally rip the entire machine apart...

I know only A30p comes with it, but I put in a Bluetooth daughter card from a dead T41p (you told me A31 may not allow you to do that), used my spare T43 WLAN antenna (AUX cable) and tucked it under the PCI/daughter card door with metal part of the antenna touching the metal part of the door. Signals may not be the best but it works. I will never touch that door again as I have to tuck in the wires every single time I do that. Good thing I replaced the CMOS battery just 2 months ago. It is also a PIT* to set a WLAN card you also have to rip the entire thing and replace the lid at the same time to get it working in the original way. The way I did it was I used another piece of antenna from my T43 (MAIN cable) and did the same thing. You don't actually need AUX to be connected to get a 2200BG to work.

ajkula66 · #154 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:16 pm

kfzhu1229 wrote: I checked the BIOS, and it still says 2652-AU2 while the manual told me that is an A31.

Hmm...from the MTM link...

Code: Select all

ThinkPad A30	2652-AU2	PIII-M 1GHz (512KB), 256MB RAM, 20.0GB HDD, 14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD, 8x-3x DVD, Modem(CDC), Ethernet(CDC), TV out, Li-Ion battery, Win2000

Anyway, you seem to be all set in the respect of wireless/BT short of clear plate. Let's see how everything flies once the new LCD arrives.

Good luck.

kfzhu1229 · #155 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:25 pm

Then whats wrong with the manual from HMM? Btw everything listed was correct except now I have PIII-M 1.2GHz (512KB) which isn't officially supported by A30, 1GB RAM, 60.0GB HDD, 15" SXGA+ Flexview LCD soon, 8x-3x DVD, CD-RW burner, Bluetooth, Ethernet(CDC), TV out (TV in port is sealed), 2200bg WLAN, Li-Ion battery, Win7
For MTM I found it shows no results for 2645-51U (ThinkPad 600)

ajkula66 · #156 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:37 pm

kfzhu1229 wrote:Then whats wrong with the manual from HMM?

I couldn't tell you since I'm not the one who wrote it...

Btw everything listed was correct except now I have PIII-M 1.2GHz (512KB) which isn't officially supported by A30, 1GB RAM, 60.0GB HDD, 15" SXGA+ Flexview LCD soon, 8x-3x DVD, CD-RW burner, Bluetooth, Ethernet(CDC), TV out (TV in port is sealed), 2200bg WLAN, Li-Ion battery, Win7
For MTM I found it shows no results for 2645-51U (ThinkPad 600)

All that "officially supported" means when it comes to IBM/Lenovo is that there was actually a system using a specific part/configuration at the time of its announcement.

Some models will inevitably be missing from even the most complete MTM list, IMO...there's just way too many of them.

kfzhu1229 · #157 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:56 am

The problem for that unofficial thing is unlike T43 Sonoma Pentium Ms, Pentium III 1.2ghz has a higher TDP than the stock 1ghz model and I found it heats up 10 celcius degrees more in full load. Still it doesn't go any hotter than 80 degrees which is decent.

ajkula66 · #158 Post by **ajkula66** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:11 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:The problem for that unofficial thing is unlike T43 Sonoma Pentium Ms, Pentium III 1.2ghz has a higher TDP than the stock 1ghz model and I found it heats up 10 celcius degrees more in full load. Still it doesn't go any hotter than 80 degrees which is decent.

You could put a heatsink from A31p - preferably a later one with the faster fan - and I'm certain that the temps would go down.

kfzhu1229 · #159 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:31 pm

80 degrees is not that bad since this machine's front bezel, keyboard and palmrest don't heat up like the T4x does. I can only get to that by playing half life 2

micrex22 · #160 Post by **micrex22** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:32 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
kfzhu1229 wrote:The problem for that unofficial thing is unlike T43 Sonoma Pentium Ms, Pentium III 1.2ghz has a higher TDP than the stock 1ghz model and I found it heats up 10 celcius degrees more in full load. Still it doesn't go any hotter than 80 degrees which is decent.
You could put a heatsink from A31p - preferably a later one with the faster fan - and I'm certain that the temps would go down.

Did you ever experiment with the older (cooler) Pentium Ms? I was thinking of putting a slower + cooler pentium M in a T43. It's not like you're really going to squeeze THAT much more performance out anyways, they're just so dated it at this point it doesn't matter. Of course the poor A31p NetBurst systems probably run fairly hotter.

ajkula66 · #161 Post by **ajkula66** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:39 pm

micrex22 wrote: Did you ever experiment with the older (cooler) Pentium Ms? I was thinking of putting a slower + cooler pentium M in a T43. It's not like you're really going to squeeze THAT much more performance out anyways, they're just so dated it at this point it doesn't matter. Of course the poor A31p NetBurst systems probably run fairly hotter.

Define "older/cooler"...

My current T43pSF sports a PM 760 instead of the usual (for me) PM 780, and the temps are not much lower, if at all. It's the GPU that heats up the system IMO.

I used to have a T42p in which I put PM 725, and it ran fine, but once again it was the GPU that I couldn't harness temperature-wise...

brchan · #162 Post by **brchan** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:00 pm

Most of the heat from the GPU is trapped because IBM, for whatever reason, decided to use a thermal pad. For me, removing the pad, applying thermal past directly to the gpu, and adding a shim on top of the heatsink (you could reuse a thin thermal pad or copper penny), brought overall temps significantly down about 10C IIRC.

kfzhu1229 · #163 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:19 pm

brchan wrote:Most of the heat from the GPU is trapped because IBM, for whatever reason, decided to use a thermal pad. For me, removing the pad, applying thermal past directly to the gpu, and adding a shim on top of the heatsink (you could reuse a thin thermal pad or copper penny), brought overall temps significantly down about 10C IIRC.

I tried that trick on one of my two T43 machines and I saw no improvement. The GPU temperature didn't drop at all. Also all Pentium M 7x0 series with normal voltage have the same TDP. 780 does run a bit hotter than 750 but it also enabled 1080p playback in some ways while the 750 simply cannot. And yes comparing A31p to A30 the heat output is dramaticly different. I have no problems with 80 degrees because it isn't AMD and TP always avoided them. They never used AMD CPUs and they switch to nvidia right after AMD took control of ATI.

kfzhu1229 · #164 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:22 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
kfzhu1229 wrote:http://www.ebay.ca/itm/IBM-15-SXGA-Thin ... SwmtJXVtYn
Very interesting. IPS panel for this cheap...
I'd wait for them to post a picture before saying anything, but if it's the real deal than these panels are a steal...

http://www.madepc.com/IBM-15-SXGA-Think ... 959-08.htm
Found the seller's website with the item's general picture...

ajkula66 · #165 Post by **ajkula66** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:41 pm

brchan wrote:Most of the heat from the GPU is trapped because IBM, for whatever reason, decided to use a thermal pad.

IBM engineers - for whatever insane reason - just loved thermal pads. Rip apart an A3x series system and weep. Thermal sponges *everywhere*...

For me, removing the pad, applying thermal past directly to the gpu, and adding a shim on top of the heatsink (you could reuse a thin thermal pad or copper penny), brought overall temps significantly down about 10C IIRC.

I've tried something along those lines on an A31p many moons ago and wasn't pleased with the result. Granted, the components are positioned very differently and what you're suggesting may be worth the effort on a T4x system. Might have to try it the next time I open the machine up to swap the CPU...

micrex22 · #166 Post by **micrex22** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:59 pm

kfzhu1229 wrote:
brchan wrote:Most of the heat from the GPU is trapped because IBM, for whatever reason, decided to use a thermal pad. For me, removing the pad, applying thermal past directly to the gpu, and adding a shim on top of the heatsink (you could reuse a thin thermal pad or copper penny), brought overall temps significantly down about 10C IIRC.
I tried that trick on one of my two T43 machines and I saw no improvement. The GPU temperature didn't drop at all. Also all Pentium M 7x0 series with normal voltage have the same TDP. 780 does run a bit hotter than 750 but it also enabled 1080p playback in some ways while the 750 simply cannot. And yes comparing A31p to A30 the heat output is dramaticly different. I have no problems with 80 degrees because it isn't AMD and TP always avoided them. They never used AMD CPUs and they switch to nvidia right after AMD took control of ATI.

The thermal 'rubber' on the T43 is a bit more effective than the later thermal pillows used / and of course a lot more resilient. What makes more of a difference is the quality and amount of thermal paste used--put too much and you'll get macbookitus aka 90C.

The switch from FireGL to Quadro didn't have to do with the AMD purchase (and it may be little-known now, but IBM was the one who started the FireGL line, although in name only apparently). I only know that from dabbling in AIX graphics solutions. Why? Same reason why you'd play with an AS/400 I guess...

IBM sold its FireGL name to ATI, who jacked it up and ran an ATI chip architecture under it (IBM apparently keeping the chip design to themselves). - http://www.xig.com/Pages/Edu/Case-135P.pdf

ajkula66 wrote:Define "older/cooler"...

My current T43pSF sports a PM 760 instead of the usual (for me) PM 780, and the temps are not much lower, if at all. It's the GPU that heats up the system IMO.

I used to have a T42p in which I put PM 725, and it ran fine, but once again it was the GPU that I couldn't harness temperature-wise...

Dothan 765:
http://ark.intel.com/products/27596/Int ... 00-MHz-FSB
It runs with 6 TDP less / so probably would help manage a T43 to operate at 60C peak, maybe.

ajkula66 · #167 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:08 am

micrex22 wrote:
Dothan 765:
http://ark.intel.com/products/27596/Int ... 00-MHz-FSB
It runs with 6 TDP less / so probably would help manage a T43 to operate at 60C peak, maybe.

You're intent on pinmodding it I presume? I've had these in several T42p units and they were not cooler than their 533MHz counterparts...

If you want *really* cool, you'll need to go down to 735. And you'll still have to address the GPU issue...

micrex22 · #168 Post by **micrex22** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:13 am

ajkula66 wrote:
micrex22 wrote:
Dothan 765:
http://ark.intel.com/products/27596/Int ... 00-MHz-FSB
It runs with 6 TDP less / so probably would help manage a T43 to operate at 60C peak, maybe.
You're intent on pinmodding it I presume? I've had these in several T42p units and they were not cooler than their 533MHz counterparts...

If you want *really* cool, you'll need to go down to 735. And you'll still have to address the GPU issue...

Well the TDP estimations on intel are typically accurate from my experience. I think if you were to install a 765 and a 780 on the same system with the identical conditions, the 765 would run cooler.

Although... doing a test on all three under the same conditions would be interesting for science.

ajkula66 · #169 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:26 am

micrex22 wrote: Well the TDP estimations on intel are typically accurate from my experience. I think if you were to install a 765 and a 780 on the same system with the identical conditions, the 765 would run cooler.

Maybe. However, if I were to go through the trouble of pinmodding it, I'd do it for the exact opposite purpose...overclocking it.

Although... doing a test on all three under the same conditions would be interesting for science.

It would. A few years ago I would've been up for testing these myself. Nowadays I'm interested in a stable, predictably-running machine and will be migrating to W2K on my T43pSF shortly...on an SSD...

username1337 · #170 Post by **username1337** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:36 am

looking to buy an IBM T43 (2668-73U or 2668-76U or 2668-91U or 2668-95U) that is in excellent working condition, minor scratches, no missing screws, all working functions, etc.

ajkula66 · #171 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:40 am

Welcome to the forum!

username1337 wrote:looking to buy an IBM T43 (2668-73U or 2668-76U or 2668-91U or 2668-95U) that is in excellent working condition, minor scratches, no missing screws, all working functions, etc.

You're essentially looking for a higher-end T43 with SXGA+ resolution - be it 14" or 15" - in excellent shape.

Well, you've likely come to the right place. The only question that remains is whether someone around here is willing to part with their prized possession...

Good luck with your noble quest.

username1337 · #172 Post by **username1337** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:19 am

ajkula66 wrote:Welcome to the forum!

username1337 wrote:looking to buy an IBM T43 (2668-73U or 2668-76U or 2668-91U or 2668-95U) that is in excellent working condition, minor scratches, no missing screws, all working functions, etc.
You're essentially looking for a higher-end T43 with SXGA+ resolution - be it 14" or 15" - in excellent shape.

Well, you've likely come to the right place. The only question that remains is whether someone around here is willing to part with their prized possession...

Good luck with your noble quest.

if someone is retiring his/her T43, i'm willing to take the T43 with open arms. im on my journey to find the T43.

or if anyone has a fully-functional motherboard of one of those models in the original T43 case w/ minor scratches, i would be more than happy to bring life back to the laptop.

#173 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:11 am

If it's the functionality of the T43 you're after, you could also consider the R52, in 14.1" or 15" size.
A bit thicker and perhaps less elegant, but better at cooling.
They have almost identical motherboards, except R52 comes with an extra Firewire/1394 port.
The 15" R52 with Intel 900 GPU can also use SXGA+ screens.

kfzhu1229 · #174 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:20 am

The GMA 900 would be good for 1080p video playback while ATI would be good for some gaming and also Windows Aero

micrex22 · #175 Post by **micrex22** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:32 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:The GMA 900 would be good for 1080p video playback while ATI would be good for some gaming and also Windows Aero

Intel ones can only run displays with a limited resolution and no OS/2

ajkula66 wrote:Nowadays I'm interested in a stable, predictably-running machine and will be migrating to W2K on my T43pSF shortly...on an SSD...

That's actually a good idea, I should put W2K on my third 15" T43 that I got for free

(XP really should have been designed more like W2K)

ajkula66 · #176 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:50 pm

micrex22 wrote: (XP really should have been designed more like W2K)

W2K is the last OS from MS that has no garbage running in the background, and frankly it shows when you start the machine. I've got it installed on a 5400rpm Hitachi SATA drive and it boots amazingly fast given the age of hardware involved.

Once you load an average YT video it becomes evident what exactly bugs down the CPU with newer versions of Windows, and it's Flash for the most part. Running FF10 gets me a very smooth audio but laggy video, but the machine is not stuttering like it is in W7 with the current Flash when running the same video. Pretty amazing, and not necessarily in a good way.

I'm going to be playing a bit more with the setup as it is right now, but am fairly certain that I'll move on to SSD with W2K within the next few days...two things that I know for a fact won't work in W2K - Intel SSD ToolBox and TOR - are not a huge bother, although it would be nice to have them. Oh well. Some compromises are to be expected...

kfzhu1229 · #177 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:15 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
micrex22 wrote: (XP really should have been designed more like W2K)
W2K is the last OS from MS that has no garbage running in the background, and frankly it shows when you start the machine.

Agreed. Especially in Tp600 and Pentium II, Windows 2000 runs snappy, XP starts faster but even without updates in SP3 things like Windows Explorer takes 2 seconds for every action to be performed UNDER 5400RPM HDD FROM A T4x. In W2k at that machine performs all its jobs quickly under 4200RPM HDD. T43 and W2k everything flys, but Windows XP with all the updates is even slower than Windows 10.

brchan · #178 Post by **brchan** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:17 pm

Its still possible to make XP SP3 quite fast, though probably not as fast as 2000. Years ago before I discovered Linux, I used nLite to slipstream XP SP3 and strip out tons of useless or unneeded features on an original XP disc. I don't remember the final install size, but it had to be less than 1 gig. Of course, the result was an unportable install disc, since it was tailored for my specific desktop hardware at the time. Boot times took less than 20 seconds and shutdowns were practically instant at less than 5-7 seconds. This was on a standard 7200rpm Seagate Sata HDD.

kfzhu1229 · #179 Post by **kfzhu1229** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:30 pm

I don't know why but I feel Prescott Pentium 4 really takes off with XP and for Sonoma Pentium M, not so.

ajkula66 · #180 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:25 pm

brchan wrote:Its still possible to make XP SP3 quite fast, though probably not as fast as 2000.

This is true, especially if one has access to the slimmed-down version known as FLP. My thing being, I always preferred W2K by a huge margin. It remains to this day my favourite OS from MS, followed by W7.

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