can i make Fn F5 work in T41 without access connections?

Message

kidtriton · #1 Post by **kidtriton** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:38 pm

maybe using an older driver than the current one? im getting ready to format and reinstall and i have been using the generic intel reference drivers, but i would like to add the Fn F5 feature if possible (without ever installing access connections). I used to have the 2100 card and i know i had it working with it before.

andrey · #2 Post by **andrey** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:07 pm

I'm using FN + F5 without access connections. I have installed current drivers and Fn + F5 worked just fine. I also have installed other software from drivers matrix, but not access connections.

-- Andrey

kidtriton · #3 Post by **kidtriton** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:11 pm

hmm, i have a T41, with a just purchased IBM 2200 card. The original drivers that came with mine didnt include 2200, since it wasnt out yet, so the only ones i can get now are the 9.x versions, which i hear have to have access connections. Does anyone have any 2200 8.x version drivers i could get and try? I havent been able to figure out where to get the old versions from.

kidtriton · #4 Post by **kidtriton** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:58 pm

i think i either need

8.0.12.20000 or 8.1.0.28

can anyone show me where to get them, or send them to me?

dr_st · #5 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:02 pm

I've got 8.1.0.28. It's about 7MB zipped. Send me a private message with details of where I can email/upload it.

For the record, the Fn+F5 never worked for me, EXCEPT with these original 8.1.0.28 drivers that came preinstalled on my T42. I tried to update twice or thrice and it immediately stopped working, so I always reverted back.

smugiri · #6 Post by **smugiri** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:12 pm

I am not sure what you mean when you ask if Fn+F5 will work without Access Connections. The Fn+F5 combo is a hardware level power on and off switch that turns the wireless radio(s) on or off ( in my case, it turns both the 802.11 radio and the BlueTooth radios off and on since I have both ). It does not work on the actual wireless radio itself, it instead toggles the state of the power supply of the radio according to IBM. The difference is like turn off a TV by hitting power off on the remote and pulling the cord out of the wall socket. In the first case, the TV simply turns off the screen and goes into a low power use state waiting for instructions on what to do next while in the second case, the TV has no power and can do nothing until the cord is hooked up to a wall outlet. Again according to IBM, these all work irrespective of OS or software installed.

This should be true for all the marked Fn+ key combinations including hibernate/sleep ( F4, F12), screen turn off & turning on external displays ( F7), volume and brightness controls ( keys next to Access Connections or Insert and Delete for volume and Home and End for brightness ) and of course the ThinkLight.

The key combination works in SuSE Linux 10.0 which is the OS on my machine and there is no way Access Connections would load on that. If you want to see what I mean, as a test, try using the Fn+F5 combination after the machine finished its post but before WIndows finished loading and you will see that the wireless light still turns off and on. IBM Access Connections simply hooks onto the hardware interrupt and changes the state of the power source for the radio ( and not the actual radio ) based on that.

brooklynboy · #7 Post by **brooklynboy** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:43 pm

A friend's T42 (2379-DXU) has been confused since being upgraded to the latest version of the 2200bg drivers and Access Connections.

- Fn+F5 works only with Bluetooth, issuing an error message about having to update the wireless drivers.

- The system tray icon and Access Connections report that the wireless radio is turned off and fail in attempts to turn it on.

- Uninstalling Access Connections allows the radio to work properly, but Fn+F5 still controls only Bluetooth; no button for wireless even appears any more.

This suggests that Fn+F5 is more than a physical power on/off switch.

Has anyone any suggestions as to how to make this work properly, with or without Access Connections?

kidtriton · #8 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:23 pm

dr_st wrote:I've got 8.1.0.28. It's about 7MB zipped. Send me a private message with details of where I can email/upload it.

For the record, the Fn+F5 never worked for me, EXCEPT with these original 8.1.0.28 drivers that came preinstalled on my T42. I tried to update twice or thrice and it immediately stopped working, so I always reverted back.

pm sent...

thanks

kidtriton · #9 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:27 pm

smugiri wrote:I am not sure what you mean when you ask if Fn+F5 will work without Access Connections.

with just the latest IBM drivers, or with the intel reference drivers, when i hit Fn F5 i get a this: (and yes, this is a real IBM branded 2200)

The way i understand it works is that the hotkey/on screen display app is what intercepts the Fn F5 keystroke, and then it kinda gets handed off to something else. This something else used to be the Sebring API, but now its something embedded in access connections. So its like my hotkey app is working, but has nothing to hand the request off to.

kidtriton · #10 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:33 pm

dr_st wrote:I've got 8.1.0.28. It's about 7MB zipped. Send me a private message with details of where I can email/upload it.

For the record, the Fn+F5 never worked for me, EXCEPT with these original 8.1.0.28 drivers that came preinstalled on my T42. I tried to update twice or thrice and it immediately stopped working, so I always reverted back.

wow, you are quick, im watching it upload now.....

dr_st · #11 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:04 pm

kidtriton wrote:
dr_st wrote:I've got 8.1.0.28. It's about 7MB zipped. Send me a private message with details of where I can email/upload it.

For the record, the Fn+F5 never worked for me, EXCEPT with these original 8.1.0.28 drivers that came preinstalled on my T42. I tried to update twice or thrice and it immediately stopped working, so I always reverted back.
wow, you are quick, im watching it upload now.....

Finished.

kidtriton · #12 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:17 pm

thanks, got it. Quick questin, when you view the driver version in device manager, does it show something like 8.1.0.28? i just installed what you sent and mine is still showing 9.0.2.31 and im not sure if the IBM ver. # is 8.1.0.28 while the intel version shows different, or if the actual driver version should show a 8.x #. Anyway, im testing a new version of one of my apps that i use, and after that im going to blow windows away and re-install using what you sent me.

dr_st · #13 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:19 pm

Yeah, it does show 8.1.0.28. And the INF says the same thing. I remember that when I wanted to go back, it wouldn't always do it simply. I think I needed to uninstall the current driver, reboot, then install the old one for it to work properly. A full Windows reinstall should definitely do the trick.

kidtriton · #14 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:22 pm

dr_st wrote:Yeah, it does show 8.1.0.28. And the INF says the same thing. I remember that when I wanted to go back, it wouldn't always do it simply. I think I needed to uninstall the current driver, reboot, then install the old one for it to work properly. A full Windows reinstall should definitely do the trick.

cool, the laptop is booting off the XP disk as i type......

dr_st · #15 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:27 pm

kidtriton wrote:
dr_st wrote:Yeah, it does show 8.1.0.28. And the INF says the same thing. I remember that when I wanted to go back, it wouldn't always do it simply. I think I needed to uninstall the current driver, reboot, then install the old one for it to work properly. A full Windows reinstall should definitely do the trick.
cool, the laptop is booting off the XP disk as i type......

My laptop is being abused by my sister as I type this. Oops, she just said "good night" and went to bed. Hehe...

kidtriton · #16 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:00 pm

smugiri wrote:I am not sure what you mean when you ask if Fn+F5 will work without Access Connections. The Fn+F5 combo is a hardware level power on and off switch that turns the wireless radio(s) on or off ( in my case, it turns both the 802.11 radio and the BlueTooth radios off and on since I have both ). It does not work on the actual wireless radio itself, it instead toggles the state of the power supply of the radio according to IBM. The difference is like turn off a TV by hitting power off on the remote and pulling the cord out of the wall socket. In the first case, the TV simply turns off the screen and goes into a low power use state waiting for instructions on what to do next while in the second case, the TV has no power and can do nothing until the cord is hooked up to a wall outlet. Again according to IBM, these all work irrespective of OS or software installed.

This should be true for all the marked Fn+ key combinations including hibernate/sleep ( F4, F12), screen turn off & turning on external displays ( F7), volume and brightness controls ( keys next to Access Connections or Insert and Delete for volume and Home and End for brightness ) and of course the ThinkLight.

The key combination works in SuSE Linux 10.0 which is the OS on my machine and there is no way Access Connections would load on that. If you want to see what I mean, as a test, try using the Fn+F5 combination after the machine finished its post but before WIndows finished loading and you will see that the wireless light still turns off and on. IBM Access Connections simply hooks onto the hardware interrupt and changes the state of the power source for the radio ( and not the actual radio ) based on that.

OK, here is an authoritative answer on this.

I just installed XP corp, booted into it the first time and the only Fn Key that works straight off the bios is F7 (monitor select), Home (Brighter), End(Dimmer), and PgUp(thinklight). The F3, F4, F5, and F12 do nothing.

Then i installed only the "IBM power management drivers" software and rebooted. Now the Fn F3, F4, F5 and F12 works.

So i was still getting the "IBM wireless adapter not installed" message when i did Fn F5, which was expected because no drivers had been installed. Then i installed the 8.1.0.28 package that i was sent, and it installled the drivers, proset and sebring api. The driver version in device manager says 8.1.0.28, but the Fn F5 still gives me "IBM wireless adapter not installed" message. So im going to see what i can do to get it working.

I will not, however, install access connections. Or if i do, i will reinstall XP again afterwards.

kidtriton · #17 Post by **kidtriton** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:18 pm

Ok, i bit the bullet and installed access connections. It also added that little "stair step" thing in the system tray that shows your signal strength as green bars, and then the Fn F5 would turn the wireless on and off. I uninstalled access connections and both the access connections and that stair steppy intel icon went away, and i no longer have the Fn F5 function.

So i guess i have satisfied my question and the answer is no, Fn F5 will not work without installing access connections. So i will install XP from scratch again and just use the latest intel reference drivers and not have Fn F5 working.

Here is my final results:

Fresh install of XP - Fn F5 does nothing at all.

Added power management drivers - Fn F5 does nothing at all.(but now F3, F4, and F12 work)

Installed old 8.1.0.28 drivers - Fn F5 says "IBM wireless adapter not installed"

Installed access connections - It works!

Uninstalled access connections - Back to "IBM wireless adapter not installed"

So at this point im satisfied with not having Fn F5 working, i surely dont want the extra little green stair step meter or access connections installed.

smugiri · #18 Post by **smugiri** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:18 pm

OK, maybe I missed something or am still missing something but it seems to me that "something is wrong in the state of Denmark".

In my original post, I stated that Fn+Function key combos are hardware level funtionality, not OS or driver level. Remember that this is not an opinion but a statement of fact based on IBM documumentation.

Lets think about this for a second. On testing, 'kidtriton" found that Fn+F7 and Fn+Home/Fn+End and the ThinkLight are the only combos that work when pressed during the boot process before the OS loads.

Leaving these alone since they behave as expected and it makes not sense to look for something under bright light rather than where one lost it, lets think about what the other key combos that did not work do. These are Fn+F3, Fn+F4, Fn+F5 and Fn+F12.

F3 - turns off LCD: works perfectly on my laptop even without a running OS. This proves nothing apart from the fact that you do not need an OS to use this key combo, an argument that is supported by IBM documenation.

F4 - put PC in standby. It seems impossible and illogical to me to put a PC that has not finished booting its OS into standby. You have to have a running OS to put into sleep and the OS is not running yet at this point. You are basically saving an image of the running environment to RAM and if there is no running environment, there is nothing to send to RAM ... This behaviour makes perfect sense.

F5 - turns wireless networking on and off. Lets deal with that in a second, it seems enough for me at this point to state that my PC runs LINUX and the Fn+F5 combination works. It is important to remember that this ONLY proves that Access Connections is not the ONLY way to change the state of the radio using the Fn+F5 key combo and NOTHING ELSE.

F12 - put PC into hibernation. Again, it seems impossible to me to put a PC that has not booted into hibernation. Same argument applies, you have to have a running OS to put into sleep and the OS is not running yet at this point. You are basically saving an image of the running environment to disk and if there is no running environment, there is nothing to send to disk ... again, this behaviour makes perfect sense.

Volume keys definitely work: how to test this? Put your PC sound on max using these keys and then reboot. As it restarts, repeatedly hit volume down BEFORE Windows starts. When Windows finally starts, check to see that nothing plays and volume is at a min in hardware. Those who have a A2x, A3x can attest to this since those machines have the hardware volume control & display wired to bios so that the volume level shows in green even when an OS is not running. In T4s series machines, the display is OS wired so it does not show if an OS is not running but the volume does change.

The fact that these keys do not work the way you expected does not contradict my argument. In analysis, the argument is actualy strengthened. Remember that while the IBM documentation states that this functionality is implemented at hardware level, it does not mean that the functionality is managed at hardware level. An analogy that might help clear this up is thinking about how speed cameras work. Although the camera takes photos of your speeding car with plate and speed and all at hardware level, the management of how to get you, the speeding driver, is at a higher level. It is implemented using custom processes and software that are distinct from the camera that took the original speeding photo although the proceses and software 'hook' to the camera to relate a photographed plate with ownership data and eventually mail you a ticket....

Same thing with all this Fn+Function ley functionality, the implementation is in hardware meaning that a hardware switch based on the Fn+F5 key combo turns the wireless radio power on and off. The management of the processes doing this though are in software ( an example of which is IBM connections ) that hooks to the hardware event through interupts that trigger events in software. For example, pressing Fn+F5 triggers a radio power on/off event in Access Connections or whatever connection management software you use and since it is a standard documented interupt event for that hardware, the software is able to trap the event or trigger the event.

All this makes me think that it may be worth your time to go into the BIOS and change the interupt for the wireless card from whatever it is now to the default ( int 11 ) or from the standard int to something else simply as a test. Thinkpad T4x machines ship by with everything that does not have a standard interupt lumped under int 11. Switching to other interupts solves some problems ( especially those related to performance e.g slow network speeds ) but creates others and your may be an example of this.

Just a thought, as always, YMMV.[/b]

dr_st · #19 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:51 am

So at this point im satisfied with not having Fn F5 working, i surely dont want the extra little green stair step meter or access connections installed.

Why, how does it bother you?

I have it installed, I never use it (Windows manages my wireless connections), but I like having the icon there, because it can provide more details on your connection (exact signal strength, MAC addresses, the channel you are running at, etc).

And if the green meter is really bothering you, just prevent QCWLICON.EXE from running on startup. Fn+F5 still works for me if I quit it.

pae77 · #20 Post by **pae77** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:23 pm

Also, if you take the time to play around with access connections, you can customize it to get rid of most, if not all, of the intrusive things that annoy some people like balloon messages, icons in the system tray etc. Really, I think it is a pretty cool application that works quite well once customized to your preferences. But each to his own.

#21 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:46 pm

The latest version of Access Connections has the following options under: Configure > Global Settings... > Notification.

1. Show ThinkVantage Access Connections status icon in task tray
2. Show wireless status icon in task tray
3. Display the progress indicator window when a profile is being applied

Item 2 is the "little green stair step meter".

kidtriton · #22 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:09 pm

smugiri wrote:OK, maybe I missed something or am still missing something but it seems to me that "something is wrong in the state of Denmark"......It seems impossible and illogical to me to put a PC that has not finished booting its OS into standby. You have to have a running OS to put into sleep and the OS is not running yet at this point......

I think i see where you misunderstood me, when i said "straight off the bios" i meant after XP was finished booting, but no additional drivers or software was installed. Meaning that the laptop performed the advertised function without help from the OS.

i wasnt trying this before the OS was loaded, i was trying it with a fresh install of XP ( not the IBM pre-load, just bare XP). I promise you that if you have a T41, install XP and no additional drivers, that Fn F3, F4, F5 and F12 will do absolutely nothing. If you don't believe me, maybe i can make a video of me formatting and installing XP, booting it for the first time and pressing these key combos.

kidtriton · #23 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:17 pm

smugiri wrote:OK, maybe I missed something or am still missing something but it seems to me that "something is wrong in the state of Denmark"......It seems impossible and illogical to me to put a PC that has not finished booting its OS into standby. You have to have a running OS to put into sleep and the OS is not running yet at this point......

Oh yea, i finally looked at your link to IBM's site and you are mis-interpreting what it says.

NOTES:

The Fn key works independently from the operating system.
The following table shows the function of each combination of Fn with a function key.

This says that the FUNCTION key operates independantly of the OS, not the Fn + whatever key you press with it.

Also, look here, this proves that the OS has to be able to interpret the key combo for anything to happen.

Fn + F5 Enable or disable the built-in wireless networking features (the IEEE 802.11 standard) and the Bluetooth features.

A list of wireless features is displayed in the Wireless Radio Control window. The power state of each feature can be quickly changed in the list.
NOTE: This function is supported only in Windows 98, Windows 2000, and Windows XP.

The only reason it works for you in Suse is that someone wrote driver packages that interpret the Fn F5 command for the version of Linux you are using. It doesnt just "magically" work. Its not real hard to get that stuff to work in Linux
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_ge ... ys_to_work

in fact, what kernel are you running? its probably built into the kernel already for you.

FnF3, FnF4, FnF5, FnF6, FnF7, FnF8, FnF9, FnF12 key events
[edit]Project Homepage / Availability
The driver is included with kernels starting from 2.6.8.

Its a good thing you are running Suse 10 because you would have had a nice suprise if you tried an older version:

If you have read my essay on running SUSE Linux 9.2 on an IBM Thinkpad T41p, you know that the Thinkpad's special function keys (like Fn+F3 for "backlight off" or Fn+F12 for "suspend to disk") don't work by default after installing SUSE Linux 9.2.

http://www.volker-lanz.de/en/linux/thin ... tion_keys/

In fact after some more research, the Fn F5 only produces an ACPI event, it does not "The Fn+F5 combo is a hardware level power on and off switch that turns the wireless radio(s) on or off " as you stated in your first post. You might want to do a little more research next time.....

kidtriton · #24 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:32 pm

It looks like they got smarter with their wording on the Z series descriptions.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-61320

Fn+F5 Enable or disable the built-in wireless networking features and the Bluetooth features. If you press Fn+F5, a list of wireless features is displayed in the Wireless Radio Control window. You can quickly change the power state of each feature in the list.
Note: This function is supported only in Windows 2000 and Windows XP.
Note: If you want to use this combination of keys to enable or disable the feature, the following device drivers must be installed on the computer beforehand:

ThinkPad Power Management driver
OnScreen Display utility
Wireless device drivers

#25 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:38 pm

I tend to agree with your assessment of the Fn + F5 key combo needing software to work. Makes perfect sense.

kidtriton · #26 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:50 pm

GomJabbar wrote:I tend to agree with your assessment of the Fn + F5 key combo needing software to work. Makes perfect sense.

yes, i did a little more research and found that indeed all Fn F5 does is produce an ACPI event = HKEY 00000080 00001005

Its completely up to software running on the host OS to interpret that and perform a function.

kidtriton · #27 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:54 pm

andrey wrote:I'm using FN + F5 without access connections. I have installed current drivers and Fn + F5 worked just fine. I also have installed other software from drivers matrix, but not access connections.

-- Andrey

I would like to hear more about your scenario, driver versions, etc.

and BTW, mine "works" too, it just gives me this though.

EDIT: why are my images that im linking to for illustration being removed?

kidtriton · #28 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:42 pm

additionally, i found this in another forum:

I think that Fn F5 not working is often a problem that has nothing to do with IBM/non-IBM card but has to do with the Intel Sebring API. To make Fn F5 work first uninstall the Intel Sebring API (Control Panel -> Add/remove programs) then re-install the last version of the IBM driver for the board and IBM access connections which will install the API as well.

The thread was talking about getting a non-IBM 2200 card to work with Fn F5, but it still supports my theory that the old 2100 card that i used to have had the code needed to intercept the request from the IBM power management software and control the card status all in the Sebring API. And that now with the 2200 drivers and API's it relies on some code in access connections to do it.

I know that the ACPI output is being interpreted because of the message that pops up that says i dont have an IBM card installed. Maybe there is some kind of ID in my card that is not exactly right, but the wireless LED of the bottom of my lid does work, and the bios does not give me the 1802 error.

kidtriton · #29 Post by **kidtriton** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:42 pm

UPDATE:

I got it to work!

Heres the deal. My laptop is a T41 that was built with a 2100 card before the 2200 ever came out.

I got the entire Drivers folder out of the IBMTOOLS folder from a friends T42 (that came with the 2200) and installed XP from scratch, installed his power management drivers, hot key app (on screen only, i unchecked the magnifier and web-keys options) 2200 drivers ver. 8.1.0.28, and Sebring API ver. 8.1.0.0 and nothing else. It works!!!

so the difference must be in the power management drivers because i had tried the 8.1.0.28 2200 drivers from dr_st the other day. Whats wierd is that i had installed the newest pm drivers off ibm's website and it didnt work before. maybe it needed another install of XP since i had installed the old pm drivers first.

smugiri · #30 Post by **smugiri** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:34 pm

It turns out that you are right on multiple counts "kidtriton"

1. The Fn + F5 combo is an ACPI event in the T4x series. The documentation I originally looked at was talking about an older machine, I think maybe an R31 or T30 but I am embarassed to say that I cannot find the page I looked at any more.

2. I am running SuSE 10.0 with the 2.6.13-15 kernel and both of these can handle the ACPI event generated by the key combo.

I did make a mistake is stating the the functionality was handled as an power on/off in the T4x series since although this was true for other lines before, this is not the case for this line. The rest of the post was correct though in that all I was trying to say was that you can use Fn+F5 functionality without having Access Connections and I now realize that one must have some sort of ACPI aware software to do this.

Thanks for putting me in the straight and narrow about how this works.

can i make Fn F5 work in T41 without access connections?

can i make Fn F5 work in T41 without access connections?

Fn + F5

Re: Fn + F5

Re: Fn + F5

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