T4x Banias to Dothan Upgrade - Proper Stepping Required!

Message

#1 Post by **underclocker** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:00 pm

Help!

I performed a cpu swap on my T40, from Banias 1.5 to Dothan 1.6.

The BIOS reports the following;
CPU Speed 1.53GHz

Under IBM's System Information, it reports;
Family 1.6GHz
CPU Speed 1.533MHz

Under XP, it reports;
1600MHz
running at 598MHz

Using CPU-Z and Intel's speed utility to check, I adjusted several BIOS settings under Power and I tried several schemes under the IBM Battery utility, I could not get the CPU above 598MHz.

On other machines, the High System Performance setting under the battery utility turns the CPU all the way up, not with this CPU.

Has anyone had misreported speeds using Dothan's in early T-series or, more importantly, any idea how to correct?

One thing that I did not do was remove the CMOS battery and try a complete new detect/reset of the BIOS. Maybe this will do it?

The machine does faster, but I'm concerned about the BIOS reporting 1533MHz and not being able to get SpeedStep to kick in anything other than a 6X multiplier.

Any ideas? Thanks!

The processor spec on the CPU I used is SL89T, which I know is one the last Dothan 400MHz CPU's produced. (It's also called a Pentium 725A.)

cmarti · #2 Post by **cmarti** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:51 am

Did you first update the controler and the BIOS to the latest?

Is the processor running at slow speed on battery and on AC which speed you have selected? Max performance, dinamic switching or max performance.

Another thing is that not always the fsb is at 400mhz sometimes it actualy runs at 398 or 397 +/-

#3 Post by **underclocker** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:15 am

Yes, the T40 has the most recent version of the BIOS and EC. I even tried to reflash, but it wasn't allowed.

I did some searching. It seems that there is some sort of table in the BIOS that set the correct speeds for each CPU. Settings vary by steppings, so the 725A CPU, which is one of the last Dothans made, has a late stepping, C0, to be exact.

Perhaps the BIOS for the T40 doesn't include support for these CPU's?

I ran a search on 725A on www.ibm.com and it showed that R51's had this CPU (not the R51's that are the same as T40's, but the 2887, 2888 models). I happen to have one. I just swapped the CPU in that machine. It works GREAT! As it should.

Reports 1.6 in the BIOS and XP, and adjusts between 600 and 1600MHz, based on battery schemes.

In the T40, I tried all battery schemes and BIOS settings, always the same. I also noticed that in CPU-Z, the voltage for the CPU was showing .7 on the T40, and between .988 and 1.34 on th R51, which is correct.

It seems that NOT ALL Dothans are supported on the T40's.

I actually bought two of the same CPU's, but I will sell one, I guess.

I'll keep the second in the R51, the difference is noticeable. Very snappy.

Any other suggestions? Shall we request that IBM/Lenovo adds support to the T40 BIOS?!?!

cmarti · #4 Post by **cmarti** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:52 pm

underclocker wrote: It seems that NOT ALL Dothans are supported on the T40's.

Strange my T40 works fine with the 2.10ghz processor.

underclocker wrote: Any other suggestions? Shall we request that IBM/Lenovo adds support to the T40 BIOS?!?!

Well the first thing would be, all the T40 users encounter the same problems that you encounter?

#5 Post by **underclocker** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:39 pm

Actually, not that strange, the 2.10GHz (765) Pentium M became availabe in October 2004. The 1.6GHz (725A) Pentium M became available 8 months later, in June 2005.

The 1.6GHz 725A was the last Dothan made for a 400MHz bus. In fact, it was nearly the last one made (most recent, in other words). Only the 2.26GHz (780) for a 533MHz bus is more recent, it became available one month later in July 2005.

See this link from IBM (page 5) - http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... ecbook.pdf

I do not have another T40 to try it in, but would like to hear from other upgraders. Perhaps we need a T40 sticky that lists successful upgrade options and those that do not work.

Maybe someone can look in the BIOS or Embedded Controller code for supported CPU's?

I assume this CPU won't work in a T41 or T42 either, as they all use the same BIOS and EC images.

I don't have access to a T43 either, otherwise I'd try it in there, too. But, I think it will work there, since C0 stepping is the norm for 533MHz Dothan cpu's.

#6 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:56 am

FYI-

I went ahead and ordered another Dothan 1.6GHz cpu. This time I selected sSpec SL7EG, which is the original Dothan 1.6 with a stepping of B1. It is also called the Pentium M 725. It was introduced in June 2004, one year before the 725A that is not properly recognized in my T40.

I'll post the results, but I figure this one will work as expected.

brentpresley · #7 Post by **brentpresley** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:00 pm

I haven't seen this particular problem, but the SL89T is so rare that I haven't tried it in a T4x before.

FWIW, my gut tells me that this CPU, being a stepping C0, is not in the microcode table of the BIOS and therefore the laptop is running itself in "safe" settings. Only a BIOS update will fix this (or a hacked BIOS, good luck there).

FYI, these are the ONLY C0 stepping 400FSB Dothans I have ever encountered (there is a 1.7GHz version as well). The VAST majority of the C0 stepping Dothans are 533FSB chips, so I'm betting a T43 would read this chip just fine (Just like your R51 did).

Just my 0.02.

#8 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:40 pm

This summary seems right.

While the BIOS image file for T40's (T41's & T42's) is fairly recent (June 2006), the Embedded Controller code image file is very old (November 2004).

At nearly two years old, if this is the file that holds the microcode table for the processors, it is certainly missing information for a 725A processor with C0 stepping - which was made available in June 2005! (From what I've read, the microcode table seems to be held in a combination of the BIOS and EC.)

Maybe the next EC image will support them?! Will there be a next image file?!

#9 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:07 am

I was hoping to have the results to share since I purchased another CPU, however, I received this in lieu of the CPU;

"Hello. I'm sorry to say that we cannot cover this deal. You will see the full amount credited to your account. Sorry for this inconvenience."

What on EARTH is that? I used Buy It Now on eBay. They can't cover the deal? Did they loose the CPU?

Anyway, I used eBay's Buy It Now again, and maybe the CPU will show up next week. Maybe.

ttan98 · #10 Post by **ttan98** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:01 pm

After reading your POSTINGS can I say that T40 will work with earlier Dothan CPUs and lastest model.

Is my interpretations correct?

I am thinking of buying T40 or T41 and update older Banias CPU to Dothan model eg 1.6-2.0 Ghz.

Please advise...thanks

#11 Post by **underclocker** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:19 am

can I say that T40 will work with earlier Dothan CPUs and lastest model

That seems to be the consensus and the experience of upgraders here.

I'm thinking about suggesting a forum topic that might contain tables with successful (and unsuccessful) upgrade options for various TP models. People routinely ask about CPU, fan, wifi, and Bluetooth upgrade options for many models.

#12 Post by **draco2527** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:51 am

I am experiencing the same problem with a 1.7 (not in a TP) I am moving to a 1.8 with a different stepping that should resolve the issue...

#13 Post by **underclocker** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:02 am

Please post the sSpec number for the 1.7 Dothan that is giving you trouble.

Brent wrote

FYI, these are the ONLY C0 stepping 400FSB Dothans I have ever encountered (there is a 1.7GHz version as well).

This must be the one. It be good to be able to caution others with this info.

Good luck with the 1.8GHz! I expect my new (older Dothan) CPU next week.

#14 Post by **draco2527** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:36 pm

Well, the 1.7 is SL7EP...the 1.8 SL7EN...still at 598...

#15 Post by **draco2527** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:36 am

OK...success!(on tablet)...I upgraded the processor table-independant from a bios upgrade- and the proc is at 1.79!!

For the THINKPAD...make sure you have the latest:

This Embedded Controller Program Service Diskette updates the embedded controller program (H8 controller firmware) stored in the ThinkPad system to fix problems, add new functions, or expand functions as noted below.

This release supports the following systems:
- ThinkPad R50, R50p
- ThinkPad R51 (Machine Type 1829, 1830, 1831 and 1836)(*1)
- ThinkPad T40, T40p, T41, T41p, T42, T42p

Note: (*1) Machine Type 2883, 2887, 2888, 2889, 2894 and 2895 of ThinkPad R51 family systems are not supported.

That might be part of the problem...

#16 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:02 am

My EC is up to date. However, regarding T40-T41-T42 & some R50-R51, I don't think this EC version supports C stepping CPU's.

As your IBM quote Notes;

Note: (*1) Machine Type 2883, 2887, 2888, 2889, 2894 and 2895 of ThinkPad R51 family systems are not supported.

These R50-R51's are different. And, if fact, they have BIOS and EC that do support the C stepping CPU's.

Maybe a future update will help the older T4x's and R5x's.

#17 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:42 pm

Amazing. I received the CPU, popped it in with a little Arctic Silver 5, and it's working as it should. Perfect.

This Dothan 1.6GHz, sSpec SL7EG, is a B stepping unit.

Bottom line, C stepping Dothans do not work properly in T40, T41 or T42's with current BIOS and EC. B stepping Dothans do work fine.

Jiro · #18 Post by **Jiro** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:03 pm

Hi, I am able to install a pentium M 780 dothan core 2.26ghz into my thinkpad t41p? and then overclock it to 2.75ghz?

FTC · #19 Post by **FTC** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:51 am

Jiro,

No it won't work well. A 780 (2,26Ghz, 533FSB) will be seen as a 735 (400FSB, 1.7Ghz) in a T41p... Even if you could, asking for 2.75 Ghz from a Dothan core is asking too much.

#20 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:24 am

Um, not to mention that the 2.26GHz Pentium M 780 533MHz bus CPU is a C stepping unit!

The whole point of this thread is that T40, T41 & T42's don't currently support the proper setup of C stepping CPU's!!!

All 533MHz bus Pentium M's are C stepping CPU's!

Bottom line, if the machine even boots with that CPU, it will likely run at 600MHz. Not much value there!

xbytes · #21 Post by **xbytes** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:59 pm

I have different results on my T40:

Dothan 735A C0
SL8BA @ 1.7GHz

'8)'

Runs fine just popped out the Banias 1.3GHz

xbytes

xbytes · #22 Post by **xbytes** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:16 pm

oops I think I broke some bottom lines!

#23 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:08 pm

Double post, see below...

#24 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:13 pm

oops I think I broke some bottom lines!

For my sake and others, I wish you did!

My T40 ran 'fine', too, but the CPU was not shifting gears as it should, SpeedStep did not work. Have you confirmed that SpeedStep works and that the voltage adjusts? I used CPU-Z.

Please let us know.

We also need clarification on the stepping for the CPU - although others did mention that some 1.7's are C stepping.

I found SL8BA listed as B stepping CPU.

Here's two links that says B stepping;

http://support.packardbell.com/de/item/ ... PB47Q01003

http://geobay.com/342940

Here's one link that says C stepping, but note they do have the wrong Thermal Design Power in this 'spec' listing, it should be 21 not 31...;

http://support.gateway.com/s/Mobile/Q10 ... 4sp2.shtml

Jiro · #25 Post by **Jiro** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:42 pm

is it even worth going from 1.6 ghz banias to 1.7 ghz dothan, does the cache difference make a large difference? and what kind of difference? the "worth it factor" being 69 bucks before shipping... so id say about 100 canadian dollars for me is a safe bet for me since i live in canada.

Im looking at ebay they seem to have alot of SL7EP
Pentium M 735 1.7ghz available... also alot of the dell latitude d600 have them in them and they are selling for about 300 - 400 dollars im wondering now if that is worth it even. You could buy one of those machines and then swap the cpu's with the thinkpad.

Basically what i've upgraded to is, 1gb pc2700ram and 7200rpm, and looking to top off the cpu limits here.

then... upgrade to SVGA lol... then bluetooth stuff! and get rid of this wireless b for wireless b/g card and maybe upgrade to 2gb ram... improve HSF compound... replace the keyboard to thai?... get the dock 2 and extra batteries... then oh yeah upgrade to pcmia soundcard... then add an actual dvd burner from ibm that would fit in that compartment... and oh yeah... need japanese keys... oh yeah bluetooth headphones and mouse (wow thats pimp)... viperhardcase... and a wife, children. omgz. then i can die. or maybe i should just get a T60...

#26 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:08 pm

is it even worth going from 1.6 ghz banias to 1.7 ghz dothan?

Well, my 2 cents, you seem as upgrade crazy as the rest of us. I went from a 1.5 Banias to a 1.6 Dothan, and I'd swear I can tell the difference. At a minimum, it's a mental upgrade

If you figure you can sell the 1.6 Banias for $40, then the upgrade cost seems reasonable! A 1.8 is/was listed on this forum for $90, maybe you could offer a little less?

xbytes · #27 Post by **xbytes** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:30 pm

And before you ask the speed steps work fine.

underclocker, from what you are saying I suppose this may not be a C0 stepping I was just going with CPU z, oh and the voltage in the image was lowered with Notbook Hardware Control

ttan98 · #28 Post by **ttan98** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:34 pm

Hi,

How do you distingished between a step "B" and "C" Dothan?

Can you you give some idea what to look for?

thanks...

#29 Post by **underclocker** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:26 pm

xbytes, thanks for providing all that info. Obviously, I agree with you. All looks good, and I'll assume that the people posting incorrect information about the SL8BA are just guessing and wrong.

I think CPU-Z is reading from the CPU, it should be correct.

As for a revised hypothesis, any Banias or Dothan will work as long as the microcode table contains the appropriate setup information for the CPU. Some C stepping CPU's are included in the T40, T41 & T42 BIOS & EC.

Perhaps the release date of the Pentium M 735A (2004) vs. the Pentium 725A (2005), is the real issue. Perhaps all Banias and Dothan up to a certain date are included in the microcode and others are not.

About a week ago I proposed a forum section to maintain tables for this type of information - which upgrades work and which don't - perhaps it will be created. It seems useful and needed to me.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=32422

ttan98 · #30 Post by **ttan98** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:50 pm

Hi, Underclocker

Can you answer my question?

How do you distingished between a step "B" and "C" Dothan?

Can you you give some idea what to look for eg are all SL7EN or EB have B stepping? are there any others?

thanks...

T4x Banias to Dothan Upgrade - Proper Stepping Required!

T4x Banias to Dothan Upgrade - Proper Stepping Required!

To Undertaker

underclocker

dothan upgrade

Who is online