USB only 1.1 on T40p

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Ruudjah · #1 Post by **Ruudjah** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:52 am

I have a Thinkpad t40p. In windows XP, my USB 2.0 port didnt work, only 1.1. So when I connected a USB 2.0 device, I got a message saying that "A high speed device is connected to a low speed usb port". I thought it had something to do with windows XP (with SP2 installed btw).

But then I installed Vista. The same message pops up! Obviously, it has something to do with the hardware. I could not find any lead in the BIOS. What setting is not correct (I assume it is a setting).

Wiz · #2 Post by **Wiz** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:20 am

I and a colleague of mine had the same issue with T40 and in both cases it was a hardware problem. I cannot remember exactly, but i think they changed the motherboard to fix the problem. At least they had to replace some hardware.

I read several posts about the same problem in this and a couple of other forums and they had to replace some hardware as well to get it fixed. This is a known issue with the T40 and probably some other T models. I'm pretty sure there is nothing you can change to make it work and probably need a new motherboard.

If you search in this forum i'm sure you will find several other threads where people have the same problem.

cmarti · #3 Post by **cmarti** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:30 am

Ruudjah wrote:
But then I installed Vista. The same message pops up! Obviously, it has something to do with the hardware. I could not find any lead in the BIOS. What setting is not correct (I assume it is a setting).

It's not a setting the problem lies in the motherboard usb circuit, to fix that you will need to replace the motherboard.

sorry..

lautamas · #4 Post by **lautamas** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:24 am

use the search button and put USB on it....the good news is that you can find so many people having the same trouble.
Now, the bad news is....you need the board to be replaced...this is a known problem with think T40s...I dont know about T41,42 and 43...but on my thinkpad..I have already had 3 mb replaced only because of this issue

lautamas · #5 Post by **lautamas** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:35 am

one more thing...let me give you a solution. I am pretty sure that your T40p is already expired on its warranty..so, aint possible to ask for MB replacement.
what you can do (like most people do) is you can try to use PCMCIA USB to solve this issue

nietsloh · #6 Post by **nietsloh** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:47 pm

I have a T41p and have the same problem. While I appreciate the PC Card to USB solution -- and may go with that -- I'd like to have a fully-functioning computer, which means USB ports running as they're supposed to.

So... how hard is it to swap out the motherboard and if I do that, do I have to re-install Windows XP?

dcouzin · #7 Post by **dcouzin** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:32 pm

Worse yet, there are those of us who have replaced the system board without it resolving the problem. Since my replacement, the lower USB external port can't achieve 2.0 speed with a particular external hard drive, but the upper USB external port almost can. The "almost" means that the externally powered external hard drive when using an extra short USB cable makes an unstable USB connection which if you catch it is at 2.0 speed. The fact that there is any difference between the upper and lower USB external ports is a clear indication of hardware fault.

I am using a cheap USB cardbus for 2.0 speed. Yes, it sticks out funny. I could have another system board replacement under warranty but wonder if each complete teardown of the machine doesn't risk more than I might gain.

It would be interesting to know how many T4x machines have this problem without their owners knowing it. This is complicated by the fact that the problem seems to be USB 2.0 device dependent.

nietsloh · #8 Post by **nietsloh** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:37 pm

It would also seem that if this is a widespread, known problem that Lenovo or IBM would be faced with some legal problems.

lautamas · #9 Post by **lautamas** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:05 pm

dcouzin wrote:Worse yet, there are those of us who have replaced the system board without it resolving the problem. Since my replacement, the lower USB external port can't achieve 2.0 speed with a particular external hard drive, but the upper USB external port almost can. The "almost" means that the externally powered external hard drive when using an extra short USB cable makes an unstable USB connection which if you catch it is at 2.0 speed. The fact that there is any difference between the upper and lower USB external ports is a clear indication of hardware fault.

I am using a cheap USB cardbus for 2.0 speed. Yes, it sticks out funny. I could have another system board replacement under warranty but wonder if each complete teardown of the machine doesn't risk more than I might gain.

It would be interesting to know how many T4x machines have this problem without their owners knowing it. This is complicated by the fact that the problem seems to be USB 2.0 device dependent.

What's your System? T42?

Jiro · #10 Post by **Jiro** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:06 pm

I had this problem before. I have a t41p motherboard.

I do not remember the procedure. But its a software problem not a hardware one. All i did was go into device manager and changed the drivers usb 2.0 to other usb 2.0 drivers that windows listed. It worked.

could you also resolve this problem getting a mini-dock?

dcouzin · #11 Post by **dcouzin** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:25 pm

Whether it's a hardware or a software problem has been much discussed in other strands. Read for example: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=29057.
That Lenovo is quite willing to replace system boards for this symptom points to their recognition of a hardware problem.
That Lenovo's replacement of my board changed, but didn't fix, the problem points in no direction I can understand.

I have one USB 2.0 device (Transcend TS2GJF168 stick) which works correctly on both my external USB ports. Perhaps there exists a USB 2.0 external hard drive which also works -- my Western Digital silver passport doesn't. Perhaps discussion in this forum will identify which USB 2.0 devices are compatible with our T4x machines.

lautamas, my T42 has the problem.

lautamas · #12 Post by **lautamas** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:31 pm

Jiro wrote:I had this problem before. I have a t41p motherboard.

I do not remember the procedure. But its a software problem not a hardware one. All i did was go into device manager and changed the drivers usb 2.0 to other usb 2.0 drivers that windows listed. It worked.

could you also resolve this problem getting a mini-dock?

that's what you call the 'driver dance'. Look at the other thread. Some people have the luck with this method...i did too..until one time that it just stopped working.

So, in conclusion, this is at the end a hardware problem. Somehow, the 'driver dance' can fix the problem temporarily...

the docking wont do either...

MB replacement is the answer to the problem...trust me...have done everything I can before I got my MB replaced for 3 times (for the same unit...)

beeblebrox · #13 Post by **beeblebrox** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:30 pm

In another forum I read that the problem was the Intel north bridge controller (Haven't checked that yet).
That chip is a large BGA chip and prone to the very same problems as every large BGA chip (heat stress and flexing of the mainboard if the notebook is carried with one hand only) -> the soldering balls break off.

A guy who fixes iBooks and Thinkpads A31 with their BGA graphics chips, using a heat gun (i.e. a small hand kitchen propane torch for caramelizing sugar for French Tarte Flambé) figured that out.
When he pushed hard on the northbridge, USB worked.

With his little torch he re-soldered the BGA and all was fine.

Just google for iBook + defective graphics or Thinkpad broken USB
there also is a demo on YouTube with the heat gun.

GACrabill · #14 Post by **GACrabill** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:45 pm

dcouzin wrote:Perhaps there exists a USB 2.0 external hard drive which also works -- my Western Digital silver passport doesn't. Perhaps discussion in this forum will identify which USB 2.0 devices are compatible with our T4x machines.

The standard for USB 2.0 port power is 500ma.
The WD Silver Passport requires 650ma.
I have seen mentioned that an Apricorn 2.5" external requires 750ma.

Based on this, I will never connect an unpowered external 2.5" hard drive to my T40 .... way too many MB problems have occurred to other folks. Were these MB failures caused by 2.5" external drives? ... cell phone charging cables? ... other types of USB devices not abiding by the 500ma limit?

WD sells a special cable that connects to two USB ports and then to the Silver or Black Passport drives .... this delivers up to 1000ma for the device to run correctly.

Targus sells a 4-port USB hub which comes with a Y-cable to connect to two ports on the laptop .... this provides 1000ma to the hub and its connected devices.

Another option is to buy a self-powered USB hub like the D-Link DUB-H7. Its power brick provides 3000ma to the 7-port hub so that power is not needed from the laptop USB ports.

The rule seems to be : don't ever connect power hungry USB devices to a T4x.

dcouzin · #15 Post by **dcouzin** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:28 am

GACrabill, I generally use an external power supply for the WD Silver Passport HD, but sometimes I haven't. Do you believe that plugging a 650ma device into a T42 USB port can damage a T42? That would be shameful, more for IBM than for me.

Anyhow the first device I tried with the new system board was a Lexar memory stick, which draws almost no current, and it failed to work at USB 2.0 speed.

Insufficient current can surely cause the external device to malfunction, but neither the external device nor the computer should be damaged. Hey! these are late twentieth century electronics we're discussing. There is a myth (bugaboo) growing that excess USB power draw damages T4x system boards. We don't know this and IBM/Lenovo apparently doesn't either.

nietsloh · #16 Post by **nietsloh** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:52 am

cmarti wrote:
Ruudjah wrote:
But then I installed Vista. The same message pops up! Obviously, it has something to do with the hardware. I could not find any lead in the BIOS. What setting is not correct (I assume it is a setting).
It's not a setting the problem lies in the motherboard usb circuit, to fix that you will need to replace the motherboard.

sorry..

So let's say I order a new motherboard... can I just pop out the old, pop in the new and I'm all set, or do I have to do a WinXP re-install?

dcouzin · #17 Post by **dcouzin** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:19 pm

Pop it in? I think it's a full day's job, involving much disassembly and reassembly and some eprom burning.

Windows, etc. reside completely on your hard drive which is unaffected.

nietsloh · #18 Post by **nietsloh** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:57 pm

dcouzin wrote:Pop it in? I think it's a full day's job, involving much disassembly and reassembly and some eprom burning.

Windows, etc. reside completely on your hard drive which is unaffected.

Well, yeah, I knew it would take a little more work than sliding in a PC Card.

And since I don't know what eprom burning is, it sounds like a job for my local 'mechanic'. Either that or I'm going to go ahead and buy a USB PCMCIA card.

lautamas · #19 Post by **lautamas** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:20 pm

dcouzin wrote:Pop it in? I think it's a full day's job, involving much disassembly and reassembly and some eprom burning.

Windows, etc. reside completely on your hard drive which is unaffected.

I have dissambled and reassemble the motherboard...it's not an easy task if you are not a 'computer tech' litterate as it needs some serious brave popping and stripping.
I wouldnt recommend you doing that only for USB issue. However, once you have replaced MB, you can do it again next time. By the way, LCD needs to be dissambled first before the MB can get out.

EPROM burning is what you call from putting back the serial number and model number into the unit. This can be done using Thinkpad Hardware Maintanance Disk ver 1.70 and up..(currently 1.73)

Ruudjah · #20 Post by **Ruudjah** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:55 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I have much experience in Dell laptops repair. I also recovered the password of my own t40p. So replacing the motherboard would take me about 45-60 minutes at most.

I already tried the driver issue, this would not work. Windows says it has 3 USB hosts, and one USB 2.0. neither of the 2 USB ports work on 2.0.

So this leaves me with the question: why does windows recognize one USB 2.0 port? Is this an internal port used for the touchpad or BT?

Several options remain. Since Vista also did not recognize the port, I would say the reinstall driver method is not suitable for me.
Which leaves me with he following options:
-Try to solder the BGA southbridge
-Replace the MB
-Buy a USB 2.0 PCMCIA card

The first is not really a good option, since it involves much risk and I do not have experience in soldering BGA chips, neither have friends of me. Furthermore, I do not have the equipment since I am studying for 5 months in the US now.
Replacing the MB leaves me with the same rsk, since I can imagine that boards sold on Ebay have the same issue.
So I think I will go for the third, since it is the easiest and the cheapest. I hate stuff sticking out of my laptop, but it is only neccessary until I got my T61, which is about three months away.

Ruudjah · #21 Post by **Ruudjah** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:10 pm

Just bought a $19 Firewire/ USB 2.0 PCMCIA card. So now I can hook up some digicam also

.

cmarti · #22 Post by **cmarti** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:26 am

Double post, sorry.

cmarti · #23 Post by **cmarti** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:26 am

nietsloh wrote: Well, yeah, I knew it would take a little more work than sliding in a PC Card.

Three hours tops.

It not that difficult.

lautamas · #24 Post by **lautamas** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:48 am

I have had my MB replaced in front of my eyes since my thinkpad has ON-SITE service...it takes the technician 40 minutes to do the whole thing. I know that this person knows exactly what he was doing and touching...I can even bet he can do the MC replacement literally with his eyes closed.
So, you can imagine that an expert like that still needs 40 minutes to put off and on everything..

nietsloh · #25 Post by **nietsloh** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:58 am

I can help a friend get his PC running faster by upgrading RAM and/or using various 'cleaners' to remove the gunk from the hard drive and from startup, but I'm a bit of a rookie when it comes to the internals of computers. So here are the final questions I need answered:

1) Will putting in a new motherboard in my T41p take care of my USB 2.0 problem FOR GOOD. (If it's iffy then I'll just plop a PCMCIA card in for my USB 2.0 needs.)

2) If I do the motherboard switch do I have to re-install Windows? I'd rather NOT have to do that since I've got everything running the way I like it.

Thanks for your patience and tips.

dcouzin · #26 Post by **dcouzin** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:33 pm

nietsloh, there's no assurance that replacing the mother board solves the USB 2.0 problem FOR GOOD. Replacing mine didn't solve it at all. lautaas in this strand wrote: "I have already had 3 mb replaced only because of this issue". Others in other strands have also reported unsuccess.

Lenovo offers to replace my board again. What is it with these boards? Are half of them USB 2.0 failures, and is there no way to tell them apart?

You can remove your hard drive when requesting mother board replacement. Your Windows, etc. are then certainly safe.

cmarti · #27 Post by **cmarti** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:11 pm

dcouzin wrote:there's no assurance that replacing the mother board solves the USB 2.0 problem FOR GOOD.

The motherboard replacement fixes the usb issue, the problem is that the new board can fail again and again..

nietsloh · #28 Post by **nietsloh** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:07 pm

cmarti wrote:The motherboard replacement fixes the usb issue, the problem is that the new board can fail again and again.

Sounds like a PCMCIA USB card is the way to go. Thanks.

cmarti · #29 Post by **cmarti** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:38 pm

nietsloh wrote: Sounds like a PCMCIA USB card is the way to go. Thanks.

Another way of doing is replacing the mobo and when used hold it with two hands to eliminate the flexing, and also use usb devises that can be connected to a a/c wall conector so it gets the electricity from there and not from your computer. A lot of hassle right?

coreman · #30 Post by **coreman** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:43 pm

cmarti wrote:
dcouzin wrote:there's no assurance that replacing the mother board solves the USB 2.0 problem FOR GOOD.
The motherboard replacement fixes the usb issue, the problem is that the new board can fail again and again..

Well due to my T41 failing because of flex problem (also posted in the sticky "T42 shuts down when I move it"), Lenovo put in a brand new motherboard, along with new keyboard. For the repair, I informed them of 'USB 2.0 throttle down to 1.1 problem'.

I got the machine back this morning and the paperwork showed a brand new keyboard and motherboard were installed. Then with the IT technician standing at my desk, I inserted (2) different brand USB thumbdrives and both failed to run at 2.0 speed, got the "This device can run faster...." message on both.

The IT guy made a comment that I fully agree with and that is "Could be a BIOS problem"...because my original problem started after I did complete update, per the Lenovo Update Tool, including upgrading to XP SP2.

I also tried the "driver dance" and now that doesn't even work, as some other users reported in a different thread (started by me last August).

Needless to say, the machine is on it's way back to Lenovo for repair again...I did not accept it without the USB 2 ports properly working (it is still under warranty).

I am still very confident that it isn't a hardware problem but firmware/software incompatibility because ports are still operating (as designed) but at lower speed.

I'll post back after I get my machine back...in the meantime I'll continue to use my T30...whose backlight inverter is now beginnig to fail...

USB only 1.1 on T40p

USB only 1.1 on T40p

Re: USB only 1.1 on T40p

Re: USB only 1.1 on T40p

Thanks

So here are my final questions...

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