T41 Dead(ish)

Message

hotlips69 · #1 Post by **hotlips69** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:20 pm

I'm trying to fix a T41 for a good friend who can't really afford a replacement laptop at the moment.

I've read lots of threads here, but I haven't come accross anyone that seems to have exactly my problem or any potential solutions without motherboard replacement being mentioned.

When I plug in the power cord, there is no sound (beeps?) at all which is not a good sign I believe?

Upon pressing the power button, the battery symbol on the LCD stays solidly on, as does the Z in a circle, and also the other 2 lights (num lock & caps lock?) appear for a second then go off.

The fans start but nothing happens on the LCD (or an external monitor) and the hard drive light never comes on and thats it!

I've now tried taking out the DVD drive, battery, hard drive, all RAM, reseated the keyboard connector and tried using a different PSU & keyboard to no avail (also still no sound whatsoever from the laptop)

Also tried pressing the GPU before powering up which doesn't do anything.

It may be worth clearing the CMOS and/or changing the battery "just in case" I suppose?

Any other things I can try please????????????

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:00 am

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

The lack of any sound when the AC adapter is plugged in might mean that the BIOS has been told not to issue the "Power Control Beep". This option is available under the Config/Alarm section. Note however, that the speakers may simply be muted (press the volume up button a couple of times and see if you get any sounds). Of course, if you can't see anything on the LCD or external monitor then how can you navigate to the proper BIOS menu??? If you want to try to toggle this setting blindly, then:

- press the power button to start up the system
- within 5 seconds, press and hold the F1 key for at least two seconds
- press the ENTER key once
- press the DOWN arrow key 10 times, then press ENTER
- press the ENTER key, then the DOWN arrow key, then the ENTER key once more
- press the ESC key TWICE
- press the F10 key, then the ENTER key

This entire procedure will toggle the power control alarm setting. If it was disabled, then this should enable it. If you then get beeps when you attach and remove the AC adapter, then at least you have proven that the BIOS is working.

I'm assuming you have either attached the external monitor and have it powered up prior to booting the T41 or you have tried pressing the Fn+F7 key combinations a couple of times, once the system has been running for several seconds. If so, then the lack of video in both the LCD and external monitor probably means a motherboard issue (sorry

). If only the LCD was not working but external video was fine, then that might point to a bad inverter, CCFL (the backlight inside the panel), a bad ribbon cable or a stuck lid switch.

hotlips69 · #3 Post by **hotlips69** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:35 pm

Thanks for the reply.

I have now replaced the CMOS battery with a new one which didn't help at all!

I've also tried changing the LCD with one from another working laptop to try and prove a point but still nothing at all appears on the display (apart from the same LEDs on the front of the panel)

I've also unplugged and reseated as many connectors as I can find on the motherboard plus tried a totally different stick of RAM on the internal slot to no avail.

I just find it very hard to believe that there is clearly power getting to the laptop & screen, yet there is no sign of anything appearing whatsoever, not even random colours or distortions!!

If it could just POST, I'd be happier.
I'm presuming that it WOULD POST if it was able to with no hard drive, DVD-Rom, Battery?

ajkula66 · #4 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:52 pm

Your assumption that it should post without the missing parts is the correct one.

This sounds like a classic case of a GPU failure that T4x/R5x units with ATi video are known for.

Permanent fix would involve solder re-balling/re-flowing in the GPU area or a motherboard replacement.

Less permanent fix may be a couple of "post-it" squares on the top of the GPU.

Good luck.

hotlips69 · #5 Post by **hotlips69** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:10 pm

I've tried many times to power up with lots of pressure to the ATI graphics chip with no effect at all.

1) Could the ATI chip simply be totally dead or is that unlikely?

2) Would the laptop POST or show any signs of life on the display in theory if there was no RAM present (bearing in mind that I'm getting no beeps etc from the machine at all) ??

3) Could the CPU be totally dead in my situation (described earlier) ?

4) There are 2 other big chips around the ATI branded chip...what are these? (one says Intel on it and the other is a small silver square on a large chip)

#6 Post by **underclocker** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:28 am

I've come across several machines with GPU issue (similar sounding to your issue) and some did need somewhat extreme pressure directly on the GPU to boot. Basically, without the palmrest installed, I lifted the keyboard and let it rest on the back of my hand while I applied very firm pressure directly to the GPU with my fingers and turned on the machine with my other hand. I'm not sure if you tried this, but it worked for me on those machines that wouldn't boot with pressure on the keyboard.

fasterbybike · #7 Post by **fasterbybike** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 am

hotlips69 wrote: 1) Could the ATI chip simply be totally dead or is that unlikely?

If the connection is faulty, then the symptoms are the same as the chip being dead.

2) Would the laptop POST or show any signs of life on the display in theory if there was no RAM present (bearing in mind that I'm getting no beeps etc from the machine at all) ??

Yes, you should get beeps if there is no RAM present. Otherwise it will not complete the POST process and nothing will be displayed.

3) Could the CPU be totally dead in my situation (described earlier) ?

Unlikely. If you're getting any activity then, no it will not be dead. Rule out all other problems first. You should be able to pick up an el cheapo Banias cpu if you think that this is a problem area.

4) There are 2 other big chips around the ATI branded chip...what are these? (one says Intel on it and the other is a small silver square on a large chip)

Northbridgeand Southbridge.

hotlips69 · #8 Post by **hotlips69** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:08 pm

underclocker wrote:I've come across several machines with GPU issue (similar sounding to your issue) and some did need somewhat extreme pressure directly on the GPU to boot. Basically, without the palmrest installed, I lifted the keyboard and let it rest on the back of my hand while I applied very firm pressure directly to the GPU with my fingers and turned on the machine with my other hand. I'm not sure if you tried this, but it worked for me on those machines that wouldn't boot with pressure on the keyboard.

I thought of trying something like that, but didn't fancy putting my hand anywhere near the live motherboard for obvious reasons!!

#9 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:20 pm

There will not be any harmful voltages down on the motherboard; the inverter for the LCD panel is the only place where you need to be careful and you will be nowhere near that. Just make sure that if you are wearing any rings, you keep them away from the components, lest you short something out and do (more) damage to the motherboard. The only other issue would be heat generated from some of the parts, but for a 30 second boot test, that isn't enough time for anything to get so hot that it would burn you (except for the CPU and it's covered by the heatsink/fan).

vlyne · #10 Post by **vlyne** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:40 am

Before you head down the risky GPU reflow route, take off all devices and power (adapter, battery, CMOS) and do the power-drain routine: press power button 10 times or more then hold down for 20 seconds. Reconnect only the adapter and try to power on. No luck? You've already tried the obvious possible issue with RAM so yes, it might be the GPU. Did you try taking off the internal network/modem card?

Best of luck! Cheers

wiz4 · #11 Post by **wiz4** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:22 am

underclocker wrote:I've come across several machines with GPU issue (similar sounding to your issue) and some did need somewhat extreme pressure directly on the GPU to boot. Basically, without the palmrest installed, I lifted the keyboard and let it rest on the back of my hand while I applied very firm pressure directly to the GPU with my fingers and turned on the machine with my other hand. I'm not sure if you tried this, but it worked for me on those machines that wouldn't boot with pressure on the keyboard.

Hi, able to insert pressure on the keyboard and my T40 able to boot up with display, but it turn blank after a while and have to repeat the pressing on the keyboard.

Do you have any solution to slove the problem withour having to press on the keyboard constantly..Thanks in advance!

Temetka · #12 Post by **Temetka** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:36 pm

I would replace the mobo.

Failing that there is a user here who can re-solder it for you.

I have heard of people folding up business cards and using that as a shim to place pressure on the GPU. I don't suggest this as it screams 'redneck hack' and is doomed to failure as well.

This machine is ultimately going to die unless you repair the GPU or replace it with a known good unit.

T41 Dead(ish)

T41 Dead(ish)

Who is online