Overheating: BIOS vs T4x Fan Controller?

[dav1129]

I first came across TP4x Fan Control utility inadvertently after my T23 started to cut out from time to time and I had no idea why. As I learnt why this maybe happening I went back and replaced the thermal grease between the CPU and the fan which following the T23 Hardware manual I removed while replacing the LCD backlight (which is now fixed).
The reapplication of thermal grease has certainly improved the heat levels and I am no longer running T4x Fan Control as I did before (heat is my only concern, not noise).
However left to the Embedded Controller I just witnessed the CPU temperature rise to 99C and the thermal protection as expected, cut in.

Is there no permanent fix or do I need to adjust the settings to suit and run TP Fan Control permanently?

But then given that while in SMART mode, TP Fan Control hands over control to the BIOS by default at 70C AND as I just experienced my BIOS didn't manage to stop the temperature rising as high as 99C, why would running TP Fan Control help?

Or is Artic Silver paste which I was unable to get here much better than other pastes?

If the answer is that I have to run Fan Control permanently to avoid temperatures as high as 99C again, these are the settings I am using at the moment.

Level=30 0
Level=35 1
Level=40 2
Level=45 3
Level=50 4
Level=55 5
Level=60 6
Level=65 7
Level=70 128

Actually using these settings I wish I could do the opposite and configure Fan Control to take over from the BIOS when it lets the temperature too high!

Thanks for reading or replying to my post

PS I am not a gamer, this T23 is just for general office use, sending email, browsing the Internet and watching movies and has already upgraded to the latest official BIOS version.

[dsigma6]

Your name looked familiar...then I realized I said I was going to email you my fan settings. You should've PM'd me!

Why is your T23 going up to 99C? Are you stress testing it? I do set mine back to BIOS control, but not until 75C. I see what you're saying about the possibility of BIOS control doing nothing at high temperatures, but I also don't know if it could interfere with the automatic system shutdown if the threshold is crossed- ie. What happens if fan control is set to 7, and the temp hits 99/100C?

Run it as a service/startup item, and I'd say get rid of some extraneous values you've got. As I showed you in the last thread, I only have 2 settings plus the BIOS instruction; Fan on, Fan off, and BIOS controlled.

[dav1129]

hi dsigma6,
thanks for your reply. I didn't because I figured I needed to adjust my own settings to understand them. as a consequence I now better understand how the three modes work and interact.

While I do remember the fan would sometimes run hard and in bursts, I have no idea what sort of temperatures were reached before. My of heat problems started after I removed the fan to replace the CCFL lamp in the LCD. (Remember my interest in TPFanControl is to control heat not noise)

I am not stress testing, I don't know really what that is. I only use this T23 for general browsing, email and office applications but often have many browser tabs open at the same time as one or two office applications. I used to used to watch DVDs or movie files but haven't since I fixed the LCD.

Since I opened it up again to reapply the thermal paste I have only hit 99C a few times and only when the fan is left to the BIOS. I can't figure out what conditions are causing the temperature to rise as it does but I do seem to be able to keep it under control using TP Fan Control.

So what is my problem? Well I'm always keen to have as few programs started as necessary - I have tweaked my services and startup hardware profiles for example, according to Black Viper and have it running really well. So if possible I'd prefer to reply on the BIOS instead of TPFanControl and then if I do have to rely on TPFanControl, what good is that if at 70C TPFanControl by default hands control back to the BIOS which clearly has proven itself unreliable? So far, though with the settings above, TPFanControl seems to be able to keep the temperature below 50C

The other issue which may have a bearing on the matter concerns the paste I used. Does Artic Silver 5 which I was unable to get locally (i.e. I used something else) deliver better results than other pastes?

[dsigma6]

As long as you're using actual thermal paste, and not super glue, it won't make much of a difference.

I understand you wanting to have a system that can properly control heat without added software, but like I did, you'll have to deal with the heat or use TPFan. If you have the fan come on at 45C @ level 6 or 7, there is no reason to get above 70C under continuous 100% CPU (for a reasonable amount of time at least).

If you don't want the BIOS to be much of a factor, set the 128 mark at 80C. I truly don't believe you should be hitting those temps, with relative ease, just browsing the internet. Unless you have multiple youtube pages open, it should stay in the 50-65C range.

Are you sure you applied the paste evenly and thin?

[dav1129]

Thanks again for your reply, Dsigma.

For the moment, to be sure, I am using TPFanControl again. For the most part and using the INI settings above, it seems to be able to keep the temperature at an acceptable 40-50C occasionally rising to the mid 60s. Without it the BIOS seems most of the time to do the job and the out the blue 99C and poof thermal protection cuts in.

But no I am not sure I applied the thermal paste correctly. I have only done it twice. A first time and then a second with a paste with silver content. At least I didn't spread it thin and I didn't tighten the fan assembly down tight as I thought it better not to squeeze the paste from between the joint. Should I do it again and spread the paste thin and tighten the fan assembly home?

Thanks

[dsigma6]

Make sure you're using a paste that's designed for this application.

Wipe the CPU and heatsink clean, and then reapply. A believe a grain of rice is the appropriate amount to use, and you should be able to tell if the amount you have is adequate. Tighten the screws fully, but not overtightened. If it's not tight enough, air will be between the paste and heatsink, thus reducing the effectiveness of the paste.

[dav1129]

Thanks for your reply dsigma,

Consistent with your suggestion I have edited Fan Control's INI file to reflect more of an off or on state

Level=30 0
Level=45 0
Level=55 4
Level=65 6
Level=70 7
Level=75 64
Level=80 128

IconLevels=50 60 70

With these settings TP Fan Control seems to be able to keep the temperature in a holding pattern between blue (<50) and yellow (<60) and be able to quickly arrest any temperature spike before it gets too high.

Ideally however I'd prefer to not need to run the utility so will reapply the paste as you describe. The second time I did it I didn't tighten the fan assembly home because I thought that would squeeze the paste from between the components and that was why the foam was there.

How incidentally do I best start Fan Control as a service? I tried adding the following to the registry but keep get an error message when Fan Control tries to start

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]
"TPFanContol"="\"C:\\Program Files\\Fan Control\\fancontrol.exe\""

[dsigma6]

Just copy a shortcut into your startup folder. Nothing complicated is necessary.

Start
Program Files
Startup (Right click, select Open)
Paste shortcut

Once in a while you'll get an error on startup (saying the fan couldn't start), but usually it will if you just click on the program.

[Pascal_TTH]

Thanks for your reply dsigma,

Consistent with your suggestion I have edited Fan Control's INI file to reflect more of an off or on state

Level=30 0
Level=45 0
Level=55 4
Level=65 6
Level=70 7
Level=75 64
Level=80 128

IconLevels=50 60 70

With these settings TP Fan Control seems to be able to keep the temperature in a holding pattern between blue (<50) and yellow (<60) and be able to quickly arrest any temperature spike before it gets too high.

Ideally however I'd prefer to not need to run the utility so will reapply the paste as you describe. The second time I did it I didn't tighten the fan assembly home because I thought that would squeeze the paste from between the components and that was why the foam was there.

How incidentally do I best start Fan Control as a service? I tried adding the following to the registry but keep get an error message when Fan Control tries to start

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]
"TPFanContol"=""C:\\Program Files\\Fan Control\\fancontrol.exe""

TPfancontrol exists in two diffrent way : classic .exe file and service version. Read this topic :
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

Registry key can only work with standard .exe. You need a specific command line to start the TPfancontrol service, not a registry key.

In a DOS box :
fancontrol_service.exe -i [Enter]
net start tpfancontrol [Enter]

[dav1129]

thanks for your reply pascal.

I had already read the topic you refer and read it again but it is very long and couldn't find more information about where to find the service version your refer to or how to run it as service.

if different to the classic version where do you find it or do you just rename it and then how do you run it automatically as a service? Can you add it a system service?

Also starting FanControl in DOS as you suggest did not work for me and even if it did how this start it automatically. The first line works if I renamed the file but the second looked like this

C:\Program Files\Fan Control>net start tpfancontrol
The service name is invalid.

More help is available by typing NET HELPMSG 2185.

C:\Program Files\Fan Control>

Did you mean to write a batch file?

[dsigma6]

Why don't you just follow my simple instructions!!

[dav1129]

Why don't you just follow my simple instructions!!

I did and thank you for the suggestion. It was a simple one and one which I had already tried but every time there is an error and I have to start FanControl manually so what's the point.
The error message has something to do with WinISO.sys being missing which actually it is not.

[dav1129]

Why don't you just follow my simple instructions!!

The error is produced only and every time on startup (when a shortcut is placed in the start up folder) but never when started manually.


Could this have something to do with the Kaspersky Startup scan?

[dav1129]

Make sure you're using a paste that's designed for this application.

Wipe the CPU and heatsink clean, and then reapply. A believe a grain of rice is the appropriate amount to use, and you should be able to tell if the amount you have is adequate. Tighten the screws fully, but not overtightened. If it's not tight enough, air will be between the paste and heatsink, thus reducing the effectiveness of the paste.

hi dsigma6,

i have just opened my T23 up again, removed the previous application, and reapplied and spread a small amount of silver thermal paste and this time screwed the fan assembly down tight instead of letting it ride on the foam.

I would never have thought it but this seems so far to have made the difference as the temperature idles at or below 50C and has not yet risen much above 60C without using TPFanControl.

Incidentally however if I do need to run TPFanControl again permanently here is a screenshot of the error I get each start up or reboot when a place a shortcut to TPFanControl in the Startup folder. Any suggestions?

[dsigma6]

Happy to hear that reapplying helped.

As to the error...As I said before, I'm not really sure how to stop it. I believe it's starting before a Windows service starts, but that's just a guess. On my T23, I only see that error maybe 10% of the time. It was slightly annoying, but it didn't kill me to place a shortcut on the desktop and click it if needed.

Is there any difference if you try running it as a service as the other poster mentioned, or have you not tried that?

[dav1129]

Is there any difference if you try running it as a service as the other poster mentioned, or have you not tried that?

I tried it but it didn't work for me. A Google search threw up a link to Creating or Deleting A Service in Windows XP but this didn't work for me either and I lost interest in looking into it any further.

I think I can now rely on the Embedded (Bios) Controller (temperature has been fine all day since reapplying the paste).