T60P VS MBP, now that it can run windows......

[Scratch]

the drivers for the kb illumination, remote and camera aren't in the beta, but I bet that they're supported when the fulll release rolls out with leopard in a few months along with some other surprises for the dual boot community.

[kwramm]

yeah maybe you are right. It would suck just to discover all the neat stuff isn't supported under XP after you bought that thing. Time will tell what else is in there for the MBP crowd

If I were to buy a MBP for use with XP I would probably wait for Boot Camp to leave the beta stage and then see if all the neat stuff apple offers is actually supported.

[pundit]

I didn't know where else to put this, but I just need to scream somewhere. After getting over my T60p (sort of), I decided to take a stroll down to a nearby computer store and check out the Apple MBP. Here are some observations.

1. My brain realizes it's made out of Aluminium, but it feels cheap and plastickey to me. I cannot believe a few days of holding a ThinkPad has made me such a stickler for great build quality.
2. The minimal screen opening angle is actually rather annoying. Contrast that to the ThinkPad which can be opened pretty much to Pi radian.
3. The widescreen form factor made it awkward when I tried to force it in my existing laptop bag. (And I did do this; I asked them for permission and before they said "Yes", I lifted the demo piece and jammed it in my bag. Only to have it jut out, all ugly-like).
4. The little darkening things I had a problem with on my T60p screen do exist on the MBP as well. Not nearly as pronounced, but still there.
5. The annoying one mouse button reared its ugly head soon enough.
6. I didn't know how to do something trivial and ended up looking like a newb to the kid in the store. I hate looking like a newb, as I really do know a bit about technical things. darn you, OS X.

Not all negative though:
1. Mac OS X is more responsive than I ever recall it being.
2. There was no whine, or heat issue. But the unit wasn't on before I started using it, so it really didn't have time to get hot.
3. The magsafe connector was snug and tight, and not flakey like I'd been led to believe from fora across the intarweb.
4. It was thinner, and seemed lighter than my T60p. But still annoyingly wide, of course.
5. The touchpad was nice and big, unlike *cough*, another company I know.

But at the end of the day, it felt cheap and poorly built (I know, it sounds weird after all those people cooing over "Apple's quality") in comparison to the super firm and strong-feeling ThinkPad.

I'm so confused.

[archer6]

I decided to take a stroll down to a nearby computer store and check out the Apple MBP. Here are some observations.

1. My brain realizes it's made out of Aluminium, but it feels cheap and plastickey to me.
2. The minimal screen opening angle is actually rather annoying.
3. The widescreen form factor made it awkward when I tried to force it in my existing laptop bag.
4. The little darkening things I had a problem with on my T60p screen do exist on the MBP as well.
5. The annoying one mouse button reared its ugly head soon enough.
Not all negative though:
1. Mac OS X is more responsive than I ever recall it being.
2. There was no whine, or heat issue. But the unit wasn't on before I started using it, so it really didn't have time to get hot.
3. The magsafe connector was snug and tight.
4. It was thinner, and seemed lighter than my T60p. But still annoyingly wide, of course.
5. The touchpad was nice and big, unlike *cough*, another company I know.

I'm so confused.

Here's my experience with MacBook Pro. My close friend just got his 1 week ago and was kind enough to let me use it for the last two days:
1) I was shocked that it did indeed feel plasticky. I have the last of the Titanium 15" PowerBooks with 1 GHz & 1GB 60GB@ 7200. Build quality is great, looks as good as new and running OSX 10.4.5 Tiger. Just a bit slow, but must faster than one would imagine, for the configuration.
2) I do not understand why they limited the opening angle of the screen, very annoying.
3) It fits in my bag, however it really feels bulky.
4) It has dark spots on the bottom corners of the screen that are much darker than the ones on my T60. Interestingly my Titanium PowerBook has only very faint dark areas. Barely noticeable and only with a pure white background.
5) His MacBook Pro had 6 dead pixels in the center of the display and Apple's response, tough luck. Policy is 9 dead pixels to qualify for replacement.
6) I'm used to the "one mouse button" however I find it really annoying as we are living in a 2 button world.
7) No 30 day (no questions asked) return policy. You take your chances.
Other Points:
1) Yes OSX is very responsive and I LIKE this OS.
2) While it's quiet, upon extended use it gets quite warm, even hot underneath. A concern for long term reliabiltiy.
3) Magsafe.....the strength of the magnet on the computer I used was marginal and I found it disconnected at the most inconvenient time.
4) Thinner yes, wide and bulky - definitely.
5) Touchpad is wide however I have become quite accustomed to the one on my T60 and I really like it. In addition on both my PowerBook and the MacBook Pro, the response and accuracy is simply not as good as the ThinkPad.
6) I have never had a ThinkPad with any dead pixels. Period.

I'm very dissapointed with the MacBook Pro, perhaps my expectations were just too high based on my previous PowerBooks. I'm grateful to have had this opportunity to evaluate the MacBook as I was ready to buy one. Now, I'm going to take a wait and see approach.
In addition, everyday that goes by, I'm liking my T60 more and more. Last night I used the ThinkVantage application called Software Installer. It automatically downloaded & installed the latest drivers which included new drivers for the Wifi, BIOS, and many more. I was seemless, fast, and free of any glitches. Total time, 15 minutes with absolutely no user involvement. Very impressive. It fixed my intermitent issue with the standby & hibernation.
I hope this report helps those of you who are thinking about the MacBook. Not sour grapes here, just a factual report after using one for two full days.

[pundit]

Here's my experience with MacBook Pro. My close friend just got his 1 week ago and was kind enough to let me use it for the last two days:
[snip]

In essence, we've concurred on everything. Except I didn't see any dead pixels (nor do I think I have ever on any laptop I've worked with; camera sensors are a different story) on my demo piece. Of course, they could have cherry-picked the demo piece.

But I was underwhelmed. I want to be pleasantly blown away? How hard is that? Laptop makers, are you listening? Is anyone totally and utterly delighted by their T60(p)?

If the Apple store sells machines with the 7200 rpm drive, does anyone know if you can pick one up, sort of check it out right there and then take it home without feeling like you've been conned into getting a lemon?

[archer6]

I want to be pleasantly blown away? How hard is that? Laptop makers, are you listening? Is anyone totally and utterly delighted by their T60(p)?

If the Apple store sells machines with the 7200 rpm drive, does anyone know if you can pick one up, sort of check it out right there and then take it home without feeling like you've been conned into getting a lemon?

1) No, they do not carry the 7200 drive in the Apple stores.
2) No checking it out, you buy it in a sealed box and take your chances. I do some professional negotiations in my business and I tried every tactic I could think of and it's sorry, you open it and if you have a problem it goes back to the repair center. No exchanges. That's from the manager (whom I have close ties to) at the Palo Alto Mac Store, their volume leading store.
3) I lived in Cupertino just a stones throw from the Apple Campus for many years, and have a friend in charge of OSX development. No dice. Policy is policy. No wiggle room. Customer Satisfaction? We're (Apple) the best, can't you tell?

I too want to have a great purchase experience and I'm willing to pay for it.

Hmmm....funny how it goes, Lexus can provide that experience for me. BMW can provide that experience, Coach, Breitling, Rolex. None of them have a problem delivering a premium product with the customer enjoying world class attention and trouble free delivery experience. Funny how it goes !

[pundit]

I too want to have a great purchase experience and I'm willing to pay for it.

In all honesty, I thought Lenovo offered this in spades. As impressive as it was, I want more. I want a flawless (from my point of view) product, and am willing to pay for it too.

[archer6]

I've just RMA'ed my T60p and have purchased a MBP. FWIW.

What has your experience been like with the MBP?

Thanks for the feedback.

archer

[kwramm]

Thanks for the MBP review. I'm even happier now I decided to go for the t60p instead

[JohnKing]

I disagree with the posters who claim that the macbook pro's build quality feels inferior to the t60. I recently purchased the 2007-63u and am now going to return it. I received it with a couple dead pixels in the center of the screen and am not happy about the supposed "top quality" build.

Having said that, I actually prefer the trackpad of the t60, but thats about all I prefer. The macbook just feels like a more solid machine. As far as the viewing angle goes, who here will actually lay their laptop down flat? I think the viewing angles by the mac is more than ample for everyday use.

I love having the option to use either MacOS or XP. It's the best of both worlds. And another thing I love about the Macbook Pro is the remote. I can now just relax on my couch and access the media center with a single remote.

And in terms of looks, I know many here don't care too much about appearances, but I must say I got many more looks when going to study in my school library with the mac, whereas the thinkpad does not garner any looks from people.

[donking!]

I too want to have a great purchase experience and I'm willing to pay for it.

In all honesty, I thought Lenovo offered this in spades. As impressive as it was, I want more. I want a flawless (from my point of view) product, and am willing to pay for it too.

pundit,

I'm worried you're descending into a deep dark place from which there is no exit. Just kidding.

But I do wonder if you'll be able to find a notebook that satisfies your needs. I mean, I totally sympathize with the problems you had with the Flexview screen and the lame way customer service dealt with you on that issue. But, in the end, are there any flawless notebooks out there? from any point of view?

I find myself increasingly frustrated on the T60 with the position of the Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn keys (albeit this is not new to this model). I navigate web pages mostly with the keyboard and moving my hand back and forth between the arrow keys at the bottom right and the PgUp, etc., keys at the top right is not ergonomic. On my old VAIO all those functions were integrated into the arrow keys, as Fn key options. I miss that.

On the other hand, alhough I know the MacBook is a more or less very well designed notebook, I agree that, for me at least, there's something surpringly cheap and overly glitzy about it. And I think the wide screen aspect ratio is not the most useful design for a notebook. Great for movies. Not great for writing, page layout, web surfing, email--where I want to see as much of a page as possible, as large as possible.

But in the end, I'm pretty happy to just have a new, very fast, notebook, which seems basically well built (certainly there are many notebooks that cannot make this claim). It makes my user experience so much better than all the other smaller things I care about.

A friend of mine once said to me a long time ago: Computers are very complicated machines and so they have very complicated problems. I really do think that there is a point of complexity beyond which nothing is flawless.

So here's my thought: Why not just keep buying T60s and returning them, on the 30 day policy, until you get when with a screen you can live with. That way you can 1) feel like you're getting something back from IBM for being so rude to you about the screen problem you were having and 2) feel like in the end you got the machine and screen that you chose, not the one that was foisted upon you.

Just a thought. Hope that's possibly helpful to you and any others stuggling on the MacBook, ThinkPad, other notebook, fence.

donking!

[pundit]

So here's my thought: Why not just keep buying T60s and returning them, on the 30 day policy, until you get when with a screen you can live with. That way you can 1) feel like you're getting something back from IBM for being so rude to you about the screen problem you were having and 2) feel like in the end you got the machine and screen that you chose, not the one that was foisted upon you.

But then there's the ever nagging question of "does it go with the look I'm trying to pull off". I've been an extremely serious technical type all my life, and was hoping I could accessorize to appear different. Totally superfluous, I know, but such is life.

And I am not so sure it is appropriate for me to waste their time or mine (oh, the waiting and hoping) with the sequence of events you describe. That, and I still haven't received my money back from the first attempt at it. One step at a time.

[pundit]

I disagree with the posters who claim that the macbook pro's build quality feels inferior to the t60. I recently purchased the 2007-63u and am now going to return it. I received it with a couple dead pixels in the center of the screen and am not happy about the supposed "top quality" build.

Having said that, I actually prefer the trackpad of the t60, but thats about all I prefer. The macbook just feels like a more solid machine. As far as the viewing angle goes, who here will actually lay their laptop down flat? I think the viewing angles by the mac is more than ample for everyday use.

I love having the option to use either MacOS or XP. It's the best of both worlds. And another thing I love about the Macbook Pro is the remote. I can now just relax on my couch and access the media center with a single remote.

And in terms of looks, I know many here don't care too much about appearances, but I must say I got many more looks when going to study in my school library with the mac, whereas the thinkpad does not garner any looks from people.

I was referring more to criteria like the solid feel of the casing, and not quality control issues like dead pixels on screen. And haven't you ever had to give a talk or two where you would like to open the screen up to a comfortable level---given that everything else is already awkward and stuffy?

I agree with your last two paragraphs, and especially the last one. It is perhaps the only reason the Macbook was (and in some sense is) on the plate. It is, like I've said time and time again, supposedly the instrument of something bigger in terms of image, not just a computer.

[taphil]

As far as the viewing angle goes, who here will actually lay their laptop down flat? I think the viewing angles by the mac is more than ample for everyday use.

It's not even that. On a few MBPs I've seen at the Apple Store, the vertical viewing angle is so narrow that when you look at it straight on, two-thirds of the screen looks good while the remaining third is starting to be dim or turn to a negative image because the viewing angle is so narrow. Also, if the laptop is on a desk and you're tall and standing up trying to use it, you can't bend the screen back far enough to view the screen properly. But the older PB and 17" PB bend back more which is enough.

[pundit]

Also, if the laptop is on a desk and you're tall and standing up trying to use it, you can't bend the screen back far enough to view the screen properly. But the older PB and 17" PB bend back more which is enough.

This was exactly my problem. I am not short, and as I was standing in the store trying to work with the demo piece, I couldn't get comfortable no matter what I tried.

This is the sort of situation that'll come up often enough in meetings and talks and so on.

[JohnKing]

I'll have to agree that the viewing angle may become a problem for some, but being a student, I am comfortable with the given range of viewing angles. I tested out using my laptop while standing and the screen never became a problem.

And going back to the build quality, I do not feel my macbook to be "plasticky" at all. Rather, I feel that the thinkpad feels more plasticky if anything. Maybe its in the design or the OSX, but I find myself using the macbook more often. That said, the thinkpad is a rock solid machine. I think that if it weren't for the dead pixels, I would have just kept it because I was satisfied with the thinkpad.

I must point out that I payed virtually the same price for both of these machines, and while I felt satisfied with the t60, I can't help but be impressed with the macbook pro. When I'm using the macbook I feel I'm getting my moneys worth, but with the thinkpad, while it is a great machine in many aspects, I don't see it as being worth my money. I think it is all the little things that the macbook offers. I can't find a weak point of the macbook, while the thinkpad had little annoyances such as the stereo being located underneath the palmrest.

Currently, I have both machines running side by side, and the mac is dead silent, while the thinkpad has a slight humming sound and the mac's screen is gorgeous to look at.

I spent a couple hours just fooling around with all the great mac programs such as garageband, photobooth, iMovie, iPhoto among others. And on top of that I can use XP without having to change to my desktop computer. That alone, in my mind, is reason enough to purchase the macbook over the thinkpad because lets face it, Mac's OSX is far superior to XP.

If I were running a business, I would definitely purchase the thinkpad because it caters to businessmen/women and offers great networking, but away from the business world, the macbook is a better laptop.

[Ponch]

If I were running a business, I would definitely purchase the thinkpad because it caters to businessmen/women and offers great networking, but other than that, the macbook is a better laptop.

I think it is not.

The Thinkpat is the much better Notebook in my eyes.

The Thinkpad has a Trackpoint against a Touchpad with only one mouse button(stupid) on the MBP
upgradable HDD+burner+battery
much better Keyboard
possibility to get a dock
faster and much better DVD Burner

Also the MBP gets freakin HOT. I don't want my handy to be toasted even when the machine is idle(the bottom is even hotter).

No, this is not a better Notebook. It looks more like a fashion victem than being prepared for a mobile life.

[taphil]

Also the MBP gets freakin HOT. I don't want my handy to be toasted even when the machine is idle(the bottom is even hotter).

That's the one thing that I can't understand. At the Apple Store, there were a few 2GHz MBPs sitting next to each other on a table. I was playing around with one for 15 mins, and then I felt the bottom of it and it was warm, nothing horrible, and more than acceptable. Meanwhile, the MBP sitting to the left of me was off, and one of the employees came and turned it on. After 5 mins of it sitting idle, I felt the bottom of it and it was clearly enough to burn, I couldn't keep my hand on it for more than a few seconds, it was about 60 Celcius. I asked the employee why one runs a lot hotter than the other, he ran System Monitor and saw that it really was idle and not doing anything, and he felt the bottom of both of them and couldn't explain why either. I asked him if I buy one will I get a hot or warm one, and he said honestly it's luck of the draw.

And then he recommended buying a laptop cooler. I'm not going to spend $20 to cool a $2500 laptop because I was unlucky and got a hot one, or because a $2500 laptop comes with poor design and heat issues.

About the plastic...as far as I know, the ThinkPad and MBP are both plastic on the inside (ie, the plastic around the keyboard). The ThinkPad uses black plastic, whereas the MBP uses gray plastic painted with silver. I hope the paint doesn't wear down and fade a year down the road.

Anyway, I think I have decided that my next laptop will be a MBP (Rev B or when Merom arrives) when problems are fixed and the touchpad gets two buttons (one physical button, but it can sense left and right like the mighty mouse). Top priority is a good display. The 14" screen on my T41 is decent but not great. I'd like to see a 15" IPS T60 LCD in person, but don't where I could. If I were to get a 15" ThinkPad, the added weight and size reduces the 14" 's advantage over the MBP (which is very wide).

Decisions, decisions...

[JohnKing]

I think it is not.

The Thinkpat is the much better Notebook in my eyes.

The Thinkpad has a Trackpoint against a Touchpad with only one mouse button(stupid) on the MBP
upgradable HDD+burner+battery
much better Keyboard
possibility to get a dock
faster and much better DVD Burner

Also the MBP gets freakin HOT. I don't want my handy to be toasted even when the machine is idle(the bottom is even hotter).

No, this is not a better Notebook. It looks more like a fashion victem than being prepared for a mobile life.

Im not deterred by the one mouse button, I like the keyboard, and my mac does not get that hot.

I guess it is all a matter of opinion (of course) when comparing laptops as well as use because I don't burn many DVD's nor do I plan on upgrading my laptop, so its all a matter of preference.

I guess what I was trying to get out was that while both are great laptops, I found that the macbook proved to be more valuable than a similar spec thinkpad and the mac also has a "fun" factor. To me, the mac offers more than a thinkpad does and is more user friendly.

I don't see most laptop users upgrading their laptops. Most buy their computers to their liking and usually stay with it.

[donking!]

Im not deterred by the one mouse button, I like the keyboard, and my mac does not get that hot.

I guess it is all a matter of opinion (of course) when comparing laptops as well as use because I don't burn many DVD's nor do I plan on upgrading my laptop, so its all a matter of preference.

I do not think the heat issue is merely a matter of opinion. It has been well documented in many many many places, articles, Mac forums, and so on. People in these places have testified at length that there is a serious heat issue with the MacBook and all the preceding PowerBooks that shared it's design. It may be that some don't get as hot as others or that some people don't notice the heat as much, because of the way they work with the notebook. But I think there is little question there is a heat issue with the MacBook.

In this thread, I cited several places where people are reporting heat issues, but it's easy to find many many more just through an even cursory search on Google.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=22024

Of course, though I do not believe this is a matter of opinion, there is a trade off between the ThinkPad and the MacBook on the heat issue. The ThinkPad has all of it's fan noise issues that drive people crazy. The MacBook is quiet but gets hot. It's a tradeoff determined by their different heating solutions. Greater reliance on the fan for the ThinkPad. Using the aluminum shell as a heat sink for the MacBook.

But then there's the ever nagging question of "does it go with the look I'm trying to pull off". I've been an extremely serious technical type all my life, and was hoping I could accessorize to appear different. Totally superfluous, I know, but such is life.

Okay, my new suggestion is wait for the Merom processor and see if Apple does a redesign of the MacBook at that point. If there's a new MacBook out it is sure to be preceived of as the coolest notebook (looks wise) on the block. (Or just get the current MacBook--since in most people's eyes it does clearly win the looks contest.)

I'm actually kind of tired of the MacBook/PowerBook look, as I've said elsewhere. In my circles, everyone has one at it just looks generic. (They also don't age well. Dings and scratches show up much more on their slick brushed metal exterior.) But I can see where you are in exactly the opposite situation and the MacBook would be cool for you. And heck, it's not like it's not a nice notebook.

[MaloventEvil]

ok -- since many people have mentioned OS X, i thought it was time to put this comment out there. Compare the laptops, not the operating systems in this discussion. It is unfair to handicap the T60P because of the s********* of the windows opperating system. Either put OS X on the t60p and then compare them or put windows xp on the MBP and then compare their performance.

[JohnKing]

I do not think the heat issue is merely a matter of opinion. It has been well documented in many many many places, articles, Mac forums, and so on. People in these places have testified at length that there is a serious heat issue with the MacBook and all the preceding PowerBooks that shared it's design. It may be that some don't get as hot as others or that some people don't notice the heat as much, because of the way they work with the notebook. But I think there is little question there is a heat issue with the MacBook.

In this thread, I cited several places where people are reporting heat issues, but it's easy to find many many more just through an even cursory search on Google.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=22024

Of course, though I do not believe this is a matter of opinion, there is a trade off between the ThinkPad and the MacBook on the heat issue. The ThinkPad has all of it's fan noise issues that drive people crazy. The MacBook is quiet but gets hot. It's a tradeoff determined by their different heating solutions. Greater reliance on the fan for the ThinkPad. Using the aluminum shell as a heat sink for the MacBook.

ummm... i never said the heating was a matter of opinion. I know that heating is in fact the biggest issue concerning the macbook pro.

[JohnKing]

ok -- since many people have mentioned OS X, i thought it was time to put this comment out there. Compare the laptops, not the operating systems in this discussion. It is unfair to handicap the T60P because of the s********* of the windows opperating system. Either put OS X on the t60p and then compare them or put windows xp on the MBP and then compare their performance.

Wasn't comparing the operating systems. Just pointing out the fact that the macbook pro has the capability of running both operating systems. That is the main argument I believe when comparing whether the macbook is a better machine than the thinkpad. If this were not possible, I don't think I would have switched to the macbook pro. I would have just asked for a replacement for my thinkpad.

[pundit]

But I can see where you are in exactly the opposite situation and the MacBook would be cool for you. And heck, it's not like it's not a nice notebook.

That's basically it. Everyone's a super-serious sciencey type with a matching no-frills no-mess black notebook. As was I. (I still am, but wish to rectify that.) It's a "nice" notebook, I give it that. As was the T60p.

I don't want to wait for Merom. If it's so awesome (a concept I'm beginning to doubt the existence of), I will have to find a gullible person on Ebay. After all my reading up on it's architecture and general drooling, it'll probably be under 20% better (battery life or performance. I was moving to the T60p from a 3--4 year old laptop (like you?), and wasn't blown away; I don't expect any different from Merom with respect to Yonah.).

Either way, if I've totally underestimated it, someone please revive this thread in 8 or so months, point and jeer.

[archer6]

I must say that there are many of us (myself included) that are quite wrapped up in this MBP vs. ThinkPad discussion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have had the opportunity to use a friends MBP for two full days of computing. Let it also be known that my first laptop was a Mac, and I have had both PowerBooks and ThinkPads for the last 8 years. I am very familiar with both hardware and software on each of these. I have had my T60 for 2 weeks of intensive computing. My thoughts are as follows. I'm backing away from the Mac vs. PC comparison, as they are certainly different with each having it's good and bad points. Both are very nice designs. Both are the best of the respective camps.

The concern I have with the PowerBook is mainly the heat issue. I have some very good connections high up in Apple, the only point being I have the opportunity to speak with someone much more knowledgeable that the store people and so called genius's. It's my understanding that they were pushing to bring the MBP to market, and some of the bugs slipped through with a look the other way. They acknowledge that there is concern over the heat. However this will be dealt with on a case by case basis if one does not forget to pay the additional $350 for the warranty.

In late November 2002 I purchased the newly released 1 ghz Titanium PowerBook G4 with the superdrive, the debut of a burner in the PowerBook Line. Less than two months later I attended the MacWorld Expo in SF only to see that mine was discontinued and replaced with the 12-15-17" Aluminum PowerBooks. I almost purchased one of those except for one reason (heat?!) As soon as the "Improved" version was released, no more heat issue and all was well. Yet, compared to my Titanium model there was very little actual speed difference.

So, as much as I wanted to like this MBP I'm waiting for the next rev.
As far as the TPad fan issue, I'm very picky and yet I must admit that there is very little noise from the fan and it's nice to know that it's working and doing it's job. According to CNet and other reviewers the ThinkPad runs very cool and I have to concur with that.

Finally, as with any complicated device / car / etc there are characteristics that are considered normal. I've decided that in the final analysis that this first "round" of ThinkPad T60's are quite nice. I'm keeping mine and just getting on with it.

[donking!]

ummm... i never said the heating was a matter of opinion. I know that heating is in fact the biggest issue concerning the macbook pro.

Oh. My apologies. The way your remark was written that's what I thought you were saying.

I don't want to wait for Merom. If it's so awesome (a concept I'm beginning to doubt the existence of), I will have to find a gullible person on Ebay. After all my reading up on it's architecture and general drooling, it'll probably be under 20% better (battery life or performance. I was moving to the T60p from a 3--4 year old laptop (like you?), and wasn't blown away; I don't expect any different from Merom with respect to Yonah.).

64-bit computing doesn't excite you? I wasn't really saying so much that Merom would be this great advance. (I think it will be a lot longer after Merom and Vista until there's adequate software updates to exploit the 64-bit capability.) I was just imaging that the next generation MacBook may be redesigned in appearance and that could be really cool.

Okay, how about an Alienware notebook? Something more radical in looks. Or the ACER Ferrari? (Or is that too dorky?) Samsung has some nice designs too--though I have no idea about the quality of their notebooks.

[kwramm]

I work at a games company tho, so I guess I could show up with whatever notebook I wanted to, but in the real corporate world whipping out an alienware with that glowy eyed alien head might get you funny looks

The MBP is pretty well designed without looking over the top, which is nice. It's just stylish, sometimes with the cost of usability, but that's apple imho.

LG also makes nice stylish notebooks. Although they look a bit feeble and not as tough as the thinkpad.

[pundit]

64-bit computing doesn't excite you? I wasn't really saying so much that Merom would be this great advance. (I think it will be a lot longer after Merom and Vista until there's adequate software updates to exploit the 64-bit capability.) I was just imaging that the next generation MacBook may be redesigned in appearance and that could be really cool.

I've been using 64-bit "workstation class" machines of different architectures for over a few years now. While their added addressing space and more bits for numerical precision are indeed useful, I've recently been working on Intel's x86_64 Xeon line, and it feels just about the same as their 32-bit Xeon line (apart from the ability to address more memory of course; which I do use).

Thus my response to it has been "meh" and not "wow". My little excitement toward Merom is not its inherent 64-bitness (because I don't think there's a legitimate need, for me, to run 8 GB or whatever of RAM on my laptop over the next couple of years), but its tons of other small nifty changes that eventually add up to one thing: More work done per clock cycle. On paper, quite a bit more. Additionally, they've gone all out to make sure that the processor doesn't sit there on and idling, twidling its thumbs, by reducing some instruction feed bottlenecks; or switch it to a state where it uses no (little) power like they do on today's Yonah.

And that---the supposed ramifications toward reduced power consumption per instruction run, in particular---is what excites me. It's just, after I've been burnt a few times in the transition from paper to reality (wow->meh), I've gotten jaded. That's all.

And oh, there are whole slew of software issues due to lack of compatibility with the 64-bitness of machines, which I will not get into. Because they are (intellectually) minor, and will be sorted out once the market moves over to 64-bit.

Okay, how about an Alienware notebook? Something more radical in looks. Or the ACER Ferrari? (Or is that too dorky?) Samsung has some nice designs too--though I have no idea about the quality of their notebooks.

Blocky, dorky and cheap-feeling.

[pundit]

And this journal post articulates a concept I can't put this nicely in words: http://www.smays.com/default/2006/04/mac_lust.html

[donking!]

Yeah (regarding the article at that link), a lot of people certainly do experience MacLust. I think I was experiencing ThinkLust when I ordered my ThinkPad. Unfortunately, that effect is a lot more powerful when you don't have one. Part of it, I think, is about seeing other people with one and not having it.

I still think you should hold out for the next redesign of the MacBook (be that with the Merom or whenever they do it). The current design has just been out too long. Essentially since the original Titanium (2001)(2003 if you date it from the Aluminum model). No matter how cool people think the Mac is, the current design is several years old. But if they redesign it, then you'll be right at the apex of the breaking cool wave.

Actually, part of what I think is brilliant about the ThinkPad design is it's understated, functional, sleek black look. It doesn't need to change. It's about being reliable, steady, solid--with just a little bit of sleekness and quirky character thrown in to distinguish it. The more it sticks to it's look, the better it is. Whereas Apple's penchant to be the newest slickest thing forces Apple to constantly come up with new and better looks (and sometimes this results in candy colored enormous clam shell looking iBooks that are just plane silly and don't age well at all).

In the end, I think, it will be hard to top the Titanium. It essentially introduced the current design. And the thing that was so jaw dropping about it was the wide screen aspect ratio. I remember the first time I saw one. It was on a plane. I stopped and stared. How many laptop models can you say you remember the first time you saw one? But everyone has the wide screen now.