What OS to use once Win 10 support ends?

[pianowizard]

I much prefer Windows 10's user interface over Windows 11's -- the latter requires more clicks to get things done -- which is why on some of my computers I will keep using Windows 10 beyond 10/14/2025 as long as Windows 10 still gets updates for Microsoft Defender and Microsoft Edge (my main browser). I have already upgraded my Microsoft Surface 3 and Dell Latitude 7370 to Windows 11 24H2 using the "AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMorCPU" Registry edit, although every two years I will need to manually upgrade them to 26H2, 28H2 etc. because without an approved CPU, Windows Update won't update beyond 24H2.

For Windows 7, Edge (and Chrome and Opera) stopped receiving updates in early 2023, about 3 years after Windows 7's end of life. If Windows 10 likewise gets 3 years of browser updates beyond 10/14/2025, I will feel comfortable using it until late 2028.

[i love old thinkpads]

Windows 11. Windows has always sucked. Linux sucks too. Each operating system has their problems

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Windows operating systems I have used:

Windows 7: Poor update management so it bloats up your system after a while. Otherwise, it's what an OS that has a giant company working on it should be. Feature rich and just works.

Windows 10: It works. It has some stupid changes from Windows 7, and lots of bloat and spyware.

Windows 11: It would almost be better than 10 if it weren't for more stupid changes and spyware. I like that the menus are less cluttered with random junk.

Windows OSes 7 and prior are a huge pain when it comes to drivers. Not even an ethernet driver!? Ah, remember the days of painstakingly scouring the internet in search of drivers and downloading them on CD or USB stick.

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Linux operating systems I have used (the dark side):

Ubuntu Linux: Just works. Unless it decides to break, and the audio doesn't work. Then spend 5 hours trying to fix it and realize you could've just reinstalled it. Also, it's bloated and has some weird voodoo.

Void Linux: How are you even looking at this post. There are like 12 packages in the package manager, and 4 more in the source repositories. You can't even get a web browser! Otherwise, it's a really nice just works, no nonsense Linux distro.

Arch Linux: Things break too much to be a usable desktop operating system. Also, I'm not a big fan of the people who use it, who are often times elitist even though using Arch isn't that hard. You just reinstall when a program accidentally does

Code: Select all

rm -rf / --no-preserve-root

Gentoo Linux: Good for running on potato's because you can do optimization. The only caveat is you need a 10,000 core CPU that discovered the meaning of the universe and talked to God to run it.

Linux operating systems are going to require extensive use of the command line, even on a 'Just werks' distro. 'Just werks' distros also won't run very well on ancient hardware like us ThinkPads enthusiast use.

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Unix free operating system I have used:

FreeBSD: The install is a really crappy GUI. I would be fine with a ncurses menu if it was actually good (see Void Linux), but it's definitely not. FreeBSD is meant for technical users, and as such, there should be an official manual install method. This isn't just some gatekeeping thing; I want to know how my system works so I'm not confused about where stuff is and what packages I'm using. Also, there is little bugs that annoy me.

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Unix proprietary operating systems I have used:

MacOS: Everything 'Just werks', out of the box. It has a nice modern and intuitive GUI. Although some apps can be a mess. Installing apps is less janky than Windows, but jankier than Linux. I still think it's kind of cool, the thing with dropping the app into the applications folder. The one thing MacOS sucks with and has always sucked with is playing video games, which isn't a deal breaker to me, but I can't believe Linux is actually better with games. Aside from that, I appreciate that it's Unix based and used the zsh shell. It's the only Unix operating system that can run professional work programs such as Adobe suite and certain CNC machining programs. It doesn't include some of the beloved utilities such as lsblk, so how do I mount drives ?

MacOS is built for Macs. Macs are crap, so for that reason, I don't use it.

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I should've made a more nuanced description than 'sucks' for a lot of these, so I edited it

[dr_st]

That's a cool summary. You left out Win2000, WinMe and Win8/8.1. The last two are almost forgettable, while Win2000 is the favorite of many retro nerds that weren't so much into gaming.

Sucked or not, but my most stable desktop PC had been running Windows Vista x64 for 12 years before I upgraded it to Windows 7 to gain lost application compatibility. It was just as good and even somewhat faster to boot, but at that point the PC was so old that it suffered from many hardware-induced instabilities.

I agree with your bottom line (although you wrote it at the top). If one is accustomed to Windows, likes it in general, and is OK with Windows 10, no reason why they wouldn't be OK with Windows 11.

[ZaZ]

I much prefer Windows 10's user interface over Windows 11's -- the latter requires more clicks to get things done

When i want to take a screenshot I used to be able to press the PrintScreen, but now have to add the Alt key in 11, though I suppose it's still better than the three keys needed on a Mac.

[pianowizard]

still better than the three keys needed on a Mac.

Windows has long had better keyboard shortcuts than macOS, which is a major reason that I have remained loyal to Microsoft. It's disappointing that Windows 11 has become more macOS-like.

Many of the counterproductive changes in Windows 11 have slowed me down significantly. I could provide many examples but will list only three here:

1) In Windows 10, I can right-click on a folder and then hit the "E" key to open it in a new window or the "R" key to see its properties, but neither shortcut works in Windows 11.

2) The search box at the top right corner of the File Explorer remembers my recent searches in Windows 10 but not in Windows 11.

3) When I right-click the "This PC" icon in Windows 10, I get the "Manage" option right away, but for Windows 11 I have to then click "Show more options" before "Manage" appears.

I suspect that Microsoft purposely removed these features from Windows 11 and will bring them back in Windows 12 to make the latter look like an improvement over 11, the same way they made Windows 8 less user-friendly than 7 before returning to a more intuitive user interface in 10.

[dr_st]

The Show More Options is one of the bigger annoyances for power users. There is a registry tweak that restores old behavior (all options available in the main context menu).

[TPFanatic]

I will never install windows 11 on my PC.
Just like I skipped 8 and 8.1. If you buy 11 you are the Product.
XP and 7's persistent proliferation tells me that 10 will stay relevant for a long, long, time...

11 is a worse version of Cash for Clunkers because there is no Cash. Just Dishonesty In Business As Usual. Linux Mint is the way to go if you're not dependent on Windows Kernel. Plenty of FOSS and Internet-based software that can do the job as well if not better than Microsoft Internet Explorer, whatever they rebrand it as.

[micrex22]

I much prefer Windows 10's user interface over Windows 11's -- the latter requires more clicks to get things done

When i want to take a screenshot I used to be able to press the PrintScreen, but now have to add the Alt key in 11, though I suppose it's still better than the three keys needed on a Mac.

The reason three keys (and sometimes four) are used on macOS is because there's three different ways you can take a screenshot, well possibly even more but I've not needed beyond these:

• Taking a screenshot of the whole screen
• Taking a screenshot of a desired clipped area
• Taking a screenshot (only) of an application window w/ rendered shadow

The fact Windows (now) has inconsistent keystrokes now for taking a full screen picture and using a separate utility for snipping is kinda cumbersome (macOS' software with Quartz seems to process faster as well). But guess what, all of them have quirks and annoyances.

It would be great to take all of the good aspects of Windows, macOS and Linux, to make a perfect operating system.... but that'll never happen

[Gonzaleitor]

That's a cool summary. You left out Win2000, WinMe and Win8/8.1. The last two are almost forgettable, while Win2000 is the favorite of many retro nerds that weren't so much into gaming.

I use Win2k in my T43, is super stable and it's compatible with almost all games for Windows (I haven't tried running DOS games in it, I use my 600e for that). Are you in the VOGONS forum under the same nick?

[dr_st]

Are you in the VOGONS forum under the same nick?

Yes.

[Gonzaleitor]

Awesome, I used your guide for NFS II SE in Windows XP, thanks!

[dr_st]

Awesome, I used your guide for NFS II SE in Windows XP, thanks!

Glad I could help! It is one of my old time favorite games. i used to play it a lot on my W98SE PC with Voodoo 3000. It looks pretty cool with Glide.

[Gonzaleitor]

Awesome, I used your guide for NFS II SE in Windows XP, thanks!

Glad I could help! It is one of my old time favorite games. i used to play it a lot on my W98SE PC with Voodoo 3000. It looks pretty cool with Glide.

I could never run it with glide because i had integrated graphics in my childhood, maybe my T42p can simulate it. But what a great game! It was a great series before EA bloated them with the online only stuff. Now I can't stand the reconnecting to servers all the time...

[TPFanatic]

Need for Speed III Hot Pursuit is my all-time favorite.

The "Modern Patch" supporting widescreen, D3D, high res models, online play, etc.. is the finest piece of nostalgic engineering I'm proud to be aware of, second to ThinkPads of course and classic limos, of course.

[Gonzaleitor]

Need for Speed III Hot Pursuit is my all-time favorite.

The "Modern Patch" supporting widescreen, D3D, high res models, online play, etc.. is the finest piece of nostalgic engineering I'm proud to be aware of, second to ThinkPads of course and classic limos, of course.

Awesome game! Mine is NFS Porsche

[micrex22]

That's a cool summary. You left out Win2000, WinMe and Win8/8.1. The last two are almost forgettable, while Win2000 is the favorite of many retro nerds that weren't so much into gaming.

Sucked or not, but my most stable desktop PC had been running Windows Vista x64 for 12 years before I upgraded it to Windows 7 to gain lost application compatibility. It was just as good and even somewhat faster to boot, but at that point the PC was so old that it suffered from many hardware-induced instabilities.

I agree with your bottom line (although you wrote it at the top). If one is accustomed to Windows, likes it in general, and is OK with Windows 10, no reason why they wouldn't be OK with Windows 11.

Vista is actually underrated: once fully patched (as early versions did have problems like memory leaks which I experienced) it's actually less bloated than Windows 7, and its aero glass is more customizable, which in my opinion the best aesthetic design Windows ever had. Plus you get the ULTIMATE EXTRAS

[dr_st]

Vista is actually underrated: once fully patched (as early versions did have problems like memory leaks which I experienced) it's actually less bloated than Windows 7, and its aero glass is more customizable, which in my opinion the best aesthetic design Windows ever had. Plus you get the ULTIMATE EXTRAS

Yes. Which is why, when I finally broke down and upgraded my Vista to Win7 due to application compatibility issues, I've made sure to retain the Ultimate Extras and themes where possible.

[mikemex]

Windows 11. What alternative do I have?