Need advice for my 6 T61s

[msm0075]

Hello fellow ThinkPaders!
New to the boards.

I have obtained 6 T61s that were tossed. 4 of them had hard drives. 5 of them had memory. 1 has a damaged screen with vertical lines in the center. All are in rough physical shape. I've wiped all hard drives clean prior to installing a clean Windows 7. One of them comes to a crawl and blue screens after running windows for awhile. two others give me 'Your computer is low on memory' error after installing windows and attempting to update via Windows Update. one has a 'Fan Error' in POST.

What would be the best way to test everything hardware wise? I've ran SpinRite 6.0 and memtest86+ 5.01 on one or two of these machines with no errors.

I tried swapping RAM and HDDs in the machines with the same results...

[brchan]

Memtest, furmark, HD tune, and prime95 should test the system for any stability issues.

What are exact specs of all the machines regarding cpu, gpu, ram, and hdd?

[msm0075]

What are exact specs of all the machines regarding cpu, gpu, ram, and hdd?

7662-CTO Intel Core 2 Duo 2.10 GHz
7662-CTO Intel Core 2 Duo 2.10 GHz
7659-O2U Intel Core 2 Duo 2.20 GHz
7658-CTO Intel Core 2 Duo 2.00 GHz
7662-CTO Intel Core 2 Duo 2.10 GHz
7658-CTO Intel Core 2 Duo 2.40 GHz

All have 2GB of RAM installed except for one which had none.

100 GB HDD
120 GB HDD
250 GB HDD (Non factory)
2 Machines had no HDD

[brchan]

Do any of them run hot? For the fan error, try reconnecting the fan connector to the motherboard. I would also clean out the fans on all the units.

[msm0075]

Do any of them run hot? For the fan error, try reconnecting the fan connector to the motherboard. I would also clean out the fans on all the units.

I'd like to say they run a little on the warm side...Nothing compared to my x100e though, but that's for another thread..heh

About the fans..that was going to be my next plan of attack. Since some of these machines (if not all) have a slight noise to them. I think it IS coming from the fan.
My plan is to take the unit out, clean it, oil it and install new thermal compound (Arctic Silver 5) and see where that gets me..

[msm0075]

Back with an update.

Just got done removing the fan assembly from my first T61. Cleaned and oiled. Applied new heat sync compound. Re-installed everything and turned the machine on.
Fan spun for a second or two upon boot and stopped. The only time the fan spins is on cold start (Shutdown and power on) for that second and turns off.

Perhaps I should have tested to see if the fan was spinning prior to doing this...

Whats weird is I've ran this machine for two days straight and it never turned off on me due to overheating...

[ajkula66]

Did you remove the battery from the machine prior to working on the fan?

[msm0075]

Started working on the second machine that has the same issues. This time I checked the fan before taking it apart. Same issue with the fan. Spins for a second and turns off.

Did you remove the battery from the machine prior to working on the fan?

of course.

[ajkula66]

Started working on the second machine that has the same issues. This time I checked the fan before taking it apart. Same issue with the fan. Spins for a second and turns off.

You most likely have a short/ground somewhere.

of course.

I had to ask. You'd be surprised - or not - how many people forget this step...

[msm0075]

Just tested the third one...Same exact issue..

I had to ask. You'd be surprised - or not - how many people forget this step...

Completely understand

[msm0075]

Finished checking out all 6..
I remove the palm rest and keyboard screws. Slide them off to the side so I can see if the fan is moving or not.
All the machines did the same thing...Is this normal?? I'd image the fan should spin all the time just and different speeds judging by heat, correct?

Funny thing is, the 6th and last machine I tested this way was the "Fan Error" machine. This one the fan spun for about 10 seconds and then cut in and out. I disconnected the fan plug and reconnected and booted. This time It spun for a second just like all the others and turned off....and guess what...no "Fan Error" in POST...booted right into Windows..

Don't know what to do from here...

[msm0075]

I've been running the first T61 that I took apart and its been running well so far. I've noticed the fan kicking in every now and then blowing warm air out..so does this mean the fan only comes on when it needs it and is completely off other times??? Is that normal?

[jronald]

Yes, runs for a moment at start up, then as needed.

Ron

[msm0075]

Spoke too soon. Half way through installing the 100+ updates for Windows things started to come to a stand still. Eventually got the 'Your computer is low on memory' error in Windows.

I really don't know what to do anymore..I can't come to a conclusion to what the problem is.

[rkawakami]

You have a PM (Private Message) from me.

[Norway Pad]

What OS are you using? I have done factory restores on customer's laptops, and particularly with the ones who restore themselves back to pre-SP1 Win7, I have seen up to 1.7GB memory usage while doing the numerous Windows updates afterwards. So 2GB installed memory on those is barely cutting it. For some reason 64Bit Win7 seems to use more memory, but that's just an assumption based on random observations, not verified. Anyway, these machines didn't crash or give any memory error with 2GB of memory, but doing the updates took the best parts of a day and a night.

I assume your OS is set up to use virtual memory? It should be so by default. Apart from checking that, I would recommend getting at least one 2GB module for the machines, so you can up your memory to at least 3GB. (Provided what you have today is a 1+1GB configuration) A 1GB module will do if you have a single 2GB module. I also assume the the PM from Ray gives some good suggestions, so check that out first.

[msm0075]

What OS are you using?

Windows 7 64 Bit

I have seen up to 1.7GB memory usage while doing the numerous Windows updates afterwards.

Wow. well if thats the case that must be what my issue is. It usually happens to me during the install, not the downloading portion of the update. Around update #170-172. I'll let it run through the night and I'll wake up to it at the same spot....

For some reason 64Bit Win7 seems to use more memory, but that's just an assumption based on random observations, not verified.

I'm going to also install Windows 7 32 Bit on an identical machine after it passes all the tests..I'll see how it does compared to the 64 Bit version.

I assume your OS is set up to use virtual memory? It should be so by default.

I'm sorry, I have no clue if i have it set or not. I'm running all default settings.

(Provided what you have today is a 1+1GB configuration)

1+1 GB is correct for all the machines I have here.

[Norway Pad]

If nothing else, buy a single 2GB stick and verify that things work better with one of the laptops before you spend money on upgrading the RAM in all of them. Neither of the units I have dealt with has actually come to a halt during the update process even if they used almost all physical memory. But the updates took a long time, as I assume they started using a great deal of paging file (Virtual Memory), which slows things down significantly.

Virtual memory settings can be found under Control Panel / System / Advanced system settings. Select the Advanced tab, and click the Settings button in the Performance field. Then select the Advanced tab in the box that pops up, and in the field Virtual Memory there should be a value xxxx MB showing. If you want to check further, click Change, and make sure that the option "Automatically manage paging file size for all drives" is checked. This is the default option.

[RealBlackStuff]

Instead of updating each machine and literally wasting hour upon hour doing so,
update only one machine to perfection, and then take an image which you can copy onto the other hard disks.

[Orclas]

Instead of updating each machine and literally wasting hour upon hour doing so,
update only one machine to perfection, and then take an image which you can copy onto the other hard disks.

Good and sound advice. If you go that route, read up on the do's and don'ts on this forum. At least for older TPs it was for example important to have the target disk in the internal bay - and source disk hooked up on USB - not vice-versa.

RAM: there's a few definitely more knowledgeable guys already posting here, but I can't really see how Windows would need more than 2Gb to not crash. Winupdate using up to 1.7 Gb should just mean that it will if it's available, not that it'll crash if not. Heck, the formal minimal sys req for Win7 64 is 2Gb, that should be a hint. The page file settings ought to be at good and safe default values after a clean install.

Fans: It's been pretty much mentioned, but the fan is "on demand" and kicks in after a threshold temperature has been reached. That and a short burst at power up, I presume as the BIOS checks fan presence and functionality (and decides whether to throw a "fan error or not). As far as I remember the controller is built in and controlled via the BIOS, i.e. no OS driver needed, but settings can be changed via the TP Power Manager. The machines have two standard fan schedules, one more aggressive (i.e. runs more often, cools more) when on AC, one less aggressive when on battery.

Some hunchbased ideas on how to proceed (aka "what would I do myself"):
- Memory has two parts, RAM and paged, and paged is on the HDD, so I'd check the disk health just in case
- Installing almost 200 updates in one go is a bit of playing with the odds of something going wrong (even though it shouldn't), so perhaps try to split it up a tad and start with the most important ones?
- Have you performed a separate driver update prior to win update? I usually start with HW related updates (via winupdate and other sources, in this case Lenovo) and related restarts, and only after that go ahead with the OS updates. Not in any way evidence based, but the thought being to minimize the risk of driver issues etc borking other things.

As for tools to use, my pretty much one-stop-shop for diagnostics is UBCD, nowadays on a USB stick for faster boot. It's a great set of tools and is the first thing I grab when needing to do a health check on a computer. Also includes a a few other handy things, like advanced partition management and quick access to a linux GUI environment.

[msm0075]

Instead of updating each machine and literally wasting hour upon hour doing so,
update only one machine to perfection, and then take an image which you can copy onto the other hard disks.

That is a good idea but im thinking ill just run tests on the other machines. Like I said before, these are in pretty rough physical shape. Ill only want to keep the best two, at most, out of the group.

[msm0075]

If nothing else, buy a single 2GB stick and verify that things work better with one of the laptops before you spend money on upgrading the RAM in all of them.

Good idea. Which brand/type would you recommend?

[Norway Pad]

I avoid the "XtremeRam" and "VauleRAM" options, the cheapo ones with very colorful pictures on eBay.

I have tried to stick to Hynix, Samsung and Micron for my Thinkpads. Exactly which brand I go with depends on what's available for each specific model, but these brands are usually available and have always worked fine. I have never bought Kingston RAM, but that might work fine too. The spec for the T61 memory modules is PC2-5300 SODIMM.

[msm0075]

Just a quick update... I've installed Windows 7 32 Bit on an identical machine and I'm having the same results during the windows update. It almost hits 1.90 GB of ram used. It gets to a point where it flat lines at around 1.60 GB and I have no choice but to reboot and continue from where it left off.

I have completed all the windows updates on the 64 bit system and now am installing all the Lenovo updates via 'System Update'.

[josh5k]

I'm just too curious after reading all the posts.

Did you figure out the issues on the machines? I just bought a cheapo T61 and am looking to learn from your experience before I start opening up my system.

[axur-delmeria]

There's a Windows update, released on the first week of June this year, that fixes the excessive memory consumption of the update checker.

[farmall]

I've been throwing Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit on T61s for years with not much fuss, but sometimes it just hangs because it's Windows. I greatly prefer Linux on T61s and anything else I can run it on.

If you don't absolutely require Windows I suggest experimenting with various live Linuxes off USB keys for convenience. I'm burning a fresh Xubuntu DVD (my USB drives are full at the moment) to load my shop T61 which had a perfectly good clean barely used Windows install I used for AutoCAD until it updated then started hanging like two dogs in love. I have a faster machine for CAD so this one gets Linux to speed it up.

I built most of my T61s out of wrecked or stripped Ebay deals. They immediately get flashed with Middleton BIOS I keep on live CD and any I use often get an SSD which are cheap now.