New 12.1" IdeaPad S12 Netbook Opinion Thread...

[archer6]

Lenovo's New 12.1" Netbook, IdeaPad S12

The photos and articles are just beginning to appear, and it's the first look I've had at the new Lenovo IdeaPad S12 Netbook. A very handsome, clean, and uncluttered design, my take is for those who are interested in this category, the S12 should sell very well. Especially since on average it's $100 less than the competition.

Here's a couple of links to articles:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-with ... deapad-s12
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2347609,00.asp

Photos here on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22046787@N03/3561701989/

YouTube Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghzDfW_gFGQ

Give us your take on this new machine.

Cheers...

[LondonConsultant]

The S12 looks pretty good for a cheap netbook, although I'd prefer:
- a matte screen (instead of glossy)
- an SSD (instead of HDD)
- a pound lighter.

The term "netbook" made sense for 7", 9" and 10" machines, but seems stretched when applied to 12.1" machines. So, if I were in the market for a netbook, I'd get one of the latest 10" machines such as a Lenovo S10-2 or an Asus 1008HA - and then swap the HDD for a SSD.

[pianowizard]

..the S12 should sell very well. Especially since on average it's $100 less than the competition.

What other 12" netbooks are there? The Dell Mini 12 has a list price of only $399, and it's often on sale.

The term "netbook" made sense for 7", 9" and 10" machines, but seems stretched when applied to 12.1" machines.

12.1" is still extremely small for many people, at least in the States where the most common laptops are 15.4". I used to own lots of 12.1" ultraportable laptops (not netbooks) and many people around me said they had never seen any laptop that small.

So, if I were in the market for a netbook, I'd get one of the latest 10" machines such as a Lenovo S10-2 or an Asus 1008HA - and then swap the HDD for a SSD.

Did you know about the HP Mini 2140? If not, I highly recommend you to look into it. It's supposed to have the best build quality among netbooks, and the high-res version has 1366x768 resolution.

[archer6]

What other 12" netbooks are there? The Dell Mini 12 has a list price of only $399, and it's often on sale.

Actually for the sake of accuracy, the 12" Dell Mini @ $399 is a highly stripped down Linux model, with a woefully slow Atom Z520 (1.33GHz 533MHz 512KB) processor as compared to the standard ATOM Processor N270 Single Core ( 1.60GHz 533MHz 512KB ) processor that the IdeaPad comes with. The Dell must be upgraded to even begin to approach the IdeaPad in order the comparison to be close, and it's still crippled by a 4200rpm PATA hard drive of only 80GB. The 160GB 5400rpm SATA hard drive in the IdeaPad is super fast by comparison. Upgraded the Mini 12 costs $559.00, and it's still a snail in the performance department.

Nonetheless since I had not bought a new Dell in a while, I thought I would try the upgraded Mini 12 and it's not bad. And yet the build quality is what killed it for me, as it looks good but it's very flimsy as compared to my very solid and well built IdeaPad Netbook. The flex in the Dell's keyboard and display lid was what caused me to dispose of it on ebay.

Did you know about the HP Mini 2140? If not, I highly recommend you to look into it. It's supposed to have the best build quality among netbooks, and the high-res version has 1366x768 resolution.

I purchased an HP Mini 2140 just for the fun of it, and to compare to my IdeaPad S10. The HP is a dreadful little bugger. Frankly I didn't pay much attention when ordering it online and did not notice the horribly misplaced mouse buttons which are located on each side of the touchpad instead of along the bottom like every other netbook, or even laptop for that matter. The placement makes them nearly useless, and at the very least truly slows one down. Then the odd 10.1" display with it's equally odd resolution is another significant drawback. However that said, it only furthers the appeal of the very well built IdeaPad Netbook. The frosting on the cake is the stellar build quality of the IdeaPad with it's terrific keyboard, 10.2" matte display and the bargain price of only $349 as compared to the HP for $479. And if one wants the high res model HP as you cited, they are a rather pricey $699.00

I find my S10 a lot of fun. I'm very eager to get my hands on the new S12 IdeaPad, that should be another fun Netbook from Lenovo.

Cheers...

[pianowizard]

Actually for the sake of accuracy, the 12" Dell Mini @ $399 is a highly stripped down Linux model, with a woefully slow Atom Z520 (1.33GHz 533MHz 512KB) processor

My bad then -- I was only comparing the starting price of the Dell Mini 12 with that for the S12 Ideapad, whereas you were comparing these brands with similar configurations. I too noticed that Dell's netbooks use slower components than some of the other brands I've looked at, which is why I wouldn't buy one for myself.

did not notice the horribly misplaced mouse buttons which are located on each side of the touchpad instead of along the bottom like every other netbook, or even laptop for that matter.

Wait a minute, didn't you buy the 2133 previously? I remember you said you hated the location of the mouse buttons on that netbook. If you disliked that so much, why would you buy the 2140, which has the exact same kind of mouse buttons? I have seen several review where people also complained about those buttons, but all of them said they were able to adjust to them after a few days. I bet you too would have adapted had you used them for a while longer.

Then the odd 10.1" display with it's equally odd resolution is another significant drawback.

Like it or not, 1366x768 will soon be the standard. Many of the new 15.6" and 16.0" laptops have this resolution. And it has 78% more real estate than the Ideapad S10.

the bargain price of only $349 as compared to the HP for $479. And if one wants the high res model HP as you cited, they are a rather pricey $699.00

The HP 2140 just had a price drop. The starting price is now $399, and the cheapest pre-configured high-res model is now $449.

[tomh009]

Like it or not, 1366x768 will soon be the standard. Many of the new 15.6" and 16.0" laptops have this resolution. And it has 78% more real estate than the Ideapad S10.

But 20% less than the 1440x900 on the X200s! Anyway, 16:9 is just starting arrive (crazy, the second aspect ratio shift in two years) so there will probably be many other options as well.

But I digress ...

[archer6]

Wait a minute, didn't you buy the 2133 previously? I remember you said you hated the location of the mouse buttons on that netbook. If you disliked that so much, why would you buy the 2140, which has the exact same kind of mouse buttons? I have seen several review where people also complained about those buttons, but all of them said they were able to adjust to them after a few days. I bet you too would have adapted had you used them for a while longer.

Yes, you're right I did buy the 2133. The reason I bought the 2140 was for some of the improvements over the 2133, and my complaint about the mouse buttons was due to _my_ mistake, as I mentioned. I read that had been changed, but failed to confirm it.... see what happens when your a sic netbook / notebook / laptop / mobile computing hardware addict like me...ha..ha..ha... ... When I spoke about it's odd display, I failed to clarify that I was referring to it's 10.1" 1024x576 panel, instead of the industry standard for 10.2" displays at 1024x600. There is quite a difference between these two. I would never complain about the 1366x768, as I think that's ideal.

Just think of all the time and money I save everyone here, since I'm the dodo bird (whoops Roadrunner) that tests all these machines....ha...ha...ha...

Cheers...

[pianowizard]

When I spoke about it's odd display, I failed to clarify that I was referring to it's 10.1" 1024x576 panel, instead of the industry standard for 10.2" displays at 1024x600. There is quite a difference between these two.

1024x600 was the standard, whereas 1024x576 is the new standard. In fact, the Ideapad S10e has 1024x576. 16:9 will become increasingly common in the near future, for not only netbooks but also laptops and external LCDs -- see this thread.

[archer6]

1024x600 was the standard, whereas 1024x576 is the new standard. In fact, the Ideapad S10e has 1024x576. 16:9 will become increasingly common in the near future, for not only netbooks but also laptops and external LCDs -

Yes, I'm fully aware of this. But for my preferences on a small 10.2" display I simply prefer the 1024x600. My friend has the S10E with it's 1024x576, a resolution I just don't care for.

As far as 16.9 is concerned, I'm glad they are finally settling on a format that hopefully they will stick with for awhile. As a big fan of my 4:3 IPS T60p UXGA for programming, I'm in that group that is slowly coming around to acceptance of the widescreen format. Laptops have never been an entertainment device for me, as I prefer watching movies on my 55" Samsung LED HDTV. No squinting required....

Cheers...

[pianowizard]

As far as 16.9 is concerned, I'm glad they are finally settling on a format that hopefully they will stick with for awhile....

I had my first experience with a 16:9 external LCD today. It's a 23" Samsung with 1920x1080, which I ordered for a coworker. Its TN quality is obviously not as good as my Dell 2407WFP's and 2007FP's S-PVA, but as far as the resolution is concerned, I think 23" 1920x1080 is okay for office work. It's a little bit narrower than 24" 1920x1200 (20.1" versus 20.4"), so it saves a little bit of desk space. And the height of 1080 pixels is not so bad. But I would still prefer a 23" 2048x1152 monitor.

BTW, I just noticed that in my last two posts, I had referred to both 1366x768 and 1024x576 as the new "standards", which might seem contradictory to some. What I really meant was that the aspect ratio of 16:9 is the new standard. For netbooks, it's 1024x576 (used to be 1024x600), whereas for laptops it is 1366x768 (used to be 1280x800). The nice thing about the HP Mini 2140 is that it has the latter, higher res.

[archer6]

What I really meant was that the aspect ratio of 16:9 is the new standard.

Yes, I knew that's what you meant as it's been widely published as the "new" standard. I've read many reports and they all seem to agree on 16:9, so perhaps the manufacturers will truly treat it as a standard and stay with it.

Cheers...

[Antioch]

It's an interesting machine. Honestly I am waiting to see a machine with the size of the S12 but with a dual-core Atom and a optical disk drive. I could live without the drive though as I've been without one for quite some time on my X61s.

I'm sad to see the aspect ratio shift again. I would love to get a 1440*900 X200s as an upgrade to my X61s' 1024*768. That vertical resolution makes all the difference.

That being said I'll likely wait for the X300-series refresh and see where things are before I make my next serious purchase. I did just last week purchase an IdeaPadY450 for the wife, however. The lowest specced model seems to suit her needs. I'd rather have gotten her the S12 but the lack of an optical drive is a bit of a deal-breaker. However, at $449 base configuration the Y450 at $520 is a much better deal. More powerful CPU (Pentium Dual Core, yes, but its the same architecture as Core2Duo but with less cache. Out-of-order execution it's got while the Atom doesn't), more RAM, a larger HD, and an optical drive (you could also count the Intel 4500 IGP and HDMI as improvements over the base non-Ion chipset). Granted the form factor isn't as nice. In my opinion Lenovo needs to price this a little lower.

I hope this machine doesn't have the same god-awful motherboard squeak that my T60 and X61s have - if it does I will be forever suspect of Lenovo's build quality and corner cutting.

[archer6]

It's an interesting machine. Honestly I am waiting to see a machine with the size of the S12 but with a dual-core Atom and a optical disk drive.

I doubt that we will see a dual core processor with Microsoft and Intel now scheming to limit the definition and configuration of a "Netbook". See link:
http://www.crn.com/mobile/217700033;jse ... SCJUNN2JVN

That being said I'll likely wait for the X300-series refresh and see where things are before I make my next serious purchase.

The newly announced U350 may indeed be the replacement for the X3xx refresh. Here's a link:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 07#p510207

One things for certain, Lenovo has a group of new machines to roll out in the last half of this year that ought to be quite interesting.

Cheers...

[Antioch]

Yes, they are limiting what can be termed a "netbook," but the Atom CPU itself is by no means limited to use in a "netbook." If I recall correctly I believe Microsoft's goal is to limit the power of a netbook so that it can limit the sales of Windows XP. Its all about the money. They can do it, but they choose not to. It's saddening to think about all the technology we could be using if it weren't for greedy corporations that "know what is best for us."

The U350 is interesting, but it all depends what "Pentium Ultra Low-voltage Processor" they choose to stick in there (it looks like they'll only have single core processors). But alas, I much rather prefer the matte screen that is only found on the ThinkPad models, and not the gloss screens on the IdeaPads. That and as with all other IdeaPads it will lack a trackpoint and the alluring ThinkPad color scheme -- that ash-grey just isn't doing it for me.

[archer6]

Yes, they are limiting what can be termed a "netbook," but the Atom CPU itself is by no means limited to use in a "netbook." If I recall correctly I believe Microsoft's goal is to limit the power of a netbook so that it can limit the sales of Windows XP. Its all about the money. They can do it, but they choose not to. It's saddening to think about all the technology we could be using if it weren't for greedy corporations that "know what is best for us."

You are so right, I do think we will see the various Atoms' in other notebooks. I'm with you when it comes to the discouraging effects of greed amongst the Gorillas known as Microsoft and Intel. While they have done a lot of good for computing they have also restricted growth in ways that are quite disgusting.

The U350 is interesting, but it all depends what "Pentium Ultra Low-voltage Processor" they choose to stick in there (it looks like they'll only have single core processors). But alas, I much rather prefer the matte screen that is only found on the ThinkPad models, and not the gloss screens on the IdeaPads. That and as with all other IdeaPads it will lack a trackpoint and the alluring ThinkPad color scheme -- that ash-grey just isn't doing it for me.

Perhaps they will equip the U350 with a matte display like the IdeaPad S10. And yet the likelihood of that may be very slim, since the S10E is glossy. Argh!

[Antioch]

That's true, they have done some good as well

I have changed my mind. I would consider the U350 under the following conditions: a 16:10 display with LED, all black body, HDMI, and either a dual-core processor or an nVidia 9300/9400 IGP.

Recently I find I do my of my work SSHed into our lab's server farm so the lower-end CPUs on a laptop would be fine. However, lacking the oomph to decode 720p is not welcome, especially when you consider that the S12 netbook can now fully decode 720p! I don't put much stock in the Intel 4500 hardware decoding but have had much success with an nVidia 9300 IGP and it's got much better support on Linux to boot.

I'd like to know why the S12 is so thick when the U350 is so thin. If the S12 were thin it'd be exactly what I asked for above