Why Aren't You Buying An X300?

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#1 Post by **shfawaz** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:19 am

We all know what a great engineering marvel the new X300 is. It's probably one of the most revolutionary Thinkpads to come out of Big-Blue's former division since the Thinkpad 770, albeit on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Just curious as to how many current Thinkpad owners out there would love to own an X300, but are put off by what amounts to premium pricing caused undoubtedly by the SSD. The Macbook Air (MBA) came out in two flavors, Solid State Drive (SSD) and regular HDD. Difference was $1k less for the HDD version MBA, giving potential buyers a choice between getting the latest cutting edge faster SSD, or saving a grand and still getting the latest ultraportable and saving some coin.

Vote the poll below and post your comments. It will be interesting to see if it is really the price that is putting off potential ultraportable buyers or some other reason we have not yet heard.

qviri · #2 Post by **qviri** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:44 am

Can we have a "none of the above" option? It's a very nice machine, but at $2500 or $1500 it's still way too much than I am willing to pay for a laptop at this point. I read the last option as having more to do with inability than unwillingness.

#3 Post by **shfawaz** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:08 pm

qviri wrote:Can we have a "none of the above" option? It's a very nice machine, but at $2500 or $1500 it's still way too much than I am willing to pay for a laptop at this point. I read the last option as having more to do with inability than unwillingness.

There you go. None of the above has been added.

MGT · #4 Post by **MGT** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:35 pm

Bad screen. It doesn't have to have an IPS screen, but even as TN panels go, the X300 display is poor. The VAIO TZ and MBA both have superior TN displays, and it's quite hard to accept such a low-quality screen on such a premium (and premium-priced) system.

#5 Post by **erik** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:01 pm

thirteen years ago the 701c was $5800 retail. five years ago the top of the line T42p was $4600 retail. SSD or not, i don't see why the $2700 starting price tag of the X300 is such a big deal.

besides, anyone buying a thinkpad for business will be writing the cost off of their taxes. since the X300 is geared toward business users, i doubt price is as big of a factor as some people think.

csv96 · #6 Post by **csv96** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:08 pm

Ditto the last comment. I bought my 14.1" Thinkpad T42p 2373KTU for around $2700 when it came out. Even at that time, there were really nice spec'd T42/T42p's for less than $2000 (remember the 15" T42p 2379DYU and T42 2379DXU) but sometimes you just have to pay a little more for thin-and-light.

Puppy · #7 Post by **Puppy** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:21 pm

Extremly horrible display. No PCMCIA/ExpressCard slot, no HDD option.

MarT40 · #8 Post by **MarT40** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:55 am

There are two comments on bad screens. Where do you go to see an X300?

royhuang · #9 Post by **royhuang** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:57 am

As a _business_ user, the display is pretty good: it's hard for people to see what's on my screen from bad viewing angles! People who gripe about the screen quality don't seem to understand that the Sony TZ & Macbook Air (which I both have) were geared towards the general eye-candy consumers. I use the TP X300 as my primary laptop because of the excellent full-sized keyboard, build quality and portability. Thinkpad's were meant for business users and once people understand that, there shouldn't be as many gripes!

#10 Post by **shfawaz** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:00 am

Puppy wrote:Extremly horrible display. No PCMCIA/ExpressCard slot, no HDD option.

Just curious, did you get one of these to see it? How were you able to judge the screen otherwise? Or are you going based the reviews of others?

Puppy · #11 Post by **Puppy** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:05 pm

It is based on measured parameters (low contrast) and photos in various reviews. You don't need many photos to discover the quality is the same as supermarket low-end notebooks. Yes, I'd like to see one in real but unfortunately is it not available here yet. There are other posts which just confirms it. Most of current Lenovo models (maybe except T61p 15" WUXGA) suffers from this problem. No wonder X300 is not an exception. Lenovo does NOT care.

BTW
Review Apple MacBook Pro 15" 4.1 (Penryn)
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-App ... 059.0.html
"The maximum contrast of the reviewed notebook of 1441:1 is excellent"

Where does Apple get such panel ? Do they produce them ? Hardly. They are just willing to put better (read: more expensive) panels to their products. Lenovo could do the same it they wanted to do so.

#12 Post by **shfawaz** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:25 pm

Puppy wrote:It is based on measured parameters (low contrast) and photos in various reviews. You don't need many photos to discover the quality is the same as supermarket low-end notebooks. Yes, I'd like to see one in real but unfortunately is it not available here yet. There are other posts which just confirms it. Most of current Lenovo models (maybe except T61p 15" WUXGA) suffers from this problem. No wonder X300 is not an exception. Lenovo does NOT care.

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying that it is the same as supermarket low-end notebook displays. Yes, specs do speak for themselves, however nothing can substitute for good a old fashioned naked eye test. I don't know how many times I've seen mfg. specs that looked great on paper only to see the actual product in person and wonder what skewed scale or measure they were using at the time they put together those alleged specs.

Bottom line, a picture of a monitor is never gonna give you the true refection of the display, nor are the specs. Granted the X300 LCD could be better (what couldn't always be improved on) based on the opinions presented that vary from opposite ends of the spectrum. I was put off by some comments made about the X300 display myself and even though I was a bit skeptical, I found it to be a very good display. I'm glad I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

Puppy · #13 Post by **Puppy** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:03 pm

shfawaz wrote:Bottom line, a picture of a monitor is never gonna give you the true refection of the display, nor are the specs.

That's true. I'd never buy a monitor if I couldn't see it before. Unfortunately Lenovo Centrum over here usually previews lowest ThinkPad configurations only.

Measured contrast was reported between 150:1 and 300:1 that confirms typical "washed look" known for former T 14" SXGA+ and X 12" XGA models. It would have to reach at least 500:1 to consider it acceptable. There are detailed picures in NBR review, especially the one taken from top side reveales typical low-end display with blue-ish tint. I'm waiting for Notebookcheck review, they always have precise display section.

I'd appreciate if someone could make high-quality pictures of the display, especially black color in dark environment under various view angles to see amount of backlight bleeding. I expect it will be the same disaster as 14" SXGA+ or 12" XGA displays. I can compare it between my R51 15" SXGA+ (IPS IDTech) and X31 12" XGA side-by-side. The difference is killing

radioactif · #14 Post by **radioactif** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:14 pm

None of the above.

I'm waiting for a Tablet version

#15 Post by **shfawaz** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:51 pm

If I was to venture a guess (speculation if you will) I think Lenovo chose this display because of its power consumption level vs. a higher contrast or brighter display which undoubtedly would reduce already challenged battery times. Personally I'd choose a better display even at the cost of a shorter battery life. I probably spend 65% of my time plugged in.

apbudha · #16 Post by **apbudha** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:01 am

I don't like this "Tseries was between 2-3 grand 4 years ago" argument. The cost of well equipt laptops has gone down significantly since that time, and this past year have been able to pick up x and t series around a little over a grand, maybe even less than a grand.

Sure if you own a business or your company is paying for this, it's a nicely functional, portable machine; but what was previously at the top of the price range for graduate students, is now completely out of the question. And now people are complaining the screens. geez. These days you can get a great laptop for around 500-600, so this is just a joke.

royhuang · #17 Post by **royhuang** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:07 am

Lenovo is not forcing people to buy the X300 so if you're looking for a more economical route, then there are better alternatives. A bit extreme of an example, but look at the cost vs. performance of the Vertu phones. The base model doesn't even have precious metal (just ruby bearings similiar to the screws of high end watch timepieces) and they cost more than the X300.

All I'm saying is that it's the price of the X300, regardless of the SSD, is still at a premium. A little for the form factor, a little from the ThinkPad name (which I always thought seemed to historically carry a premium price to equivalently-powered laptops, and the "prestige" of having the lastest form factor. Let's be honest: it's naive to think that the price has nothing to do with the prestige.

I've had tons of laptops (from the first Sharp Widenote that cost $3k back in the 90s to the Sony TZ--and its 2 prior predecessors), the first Powerbook w/ System 7, the Powerbook Duo, Powerbook Titanium, MB Air as well as the first gen Sony UX palmtop, Motion Computing Tablet LE1700, etc.). They were all top of the line models during their eras and they all had faults. As first time ThinkPad owner, I am very pleased with the performance and usability of the X300. It's now my primary laptop.

Obviously cost was not a factor in my deciding to buy one (the pros of working on Wall Street) but If you want the bang-for-the-buck approach, Dell's latest XP15xx or 17xx line should be pretty good. Why not head over to those forums instead...

kai920 · #18 Post by **kai920** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:25 am

Waiting for a bigger HDD. (voted "X301" option)

qviri · #19 Post by **qviri** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:51 am

apbudha wrote:These days you can get a great laptop for around 500-600, so this is just a joke.

You can also get a Eee PC for $400, but like the $600 laptops that's not really a fair comparison IMHO.

#20 Post by **erik** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:19 am

apbudha wrote:I don't like this "Tseries was between 2-3 grand 4 years ago" argument. <snip> These days you can get a great laptop for around 500-600, so this is just a joke.

you can buy a rolex for $5k or a timex for $50. you can buy a mercedes-benz S-class for $80k or a used car for $800. you can build a new house for $1M or buy a trailer for $10k. price is but only one small factor in purchasing a product and comparing the X300 to a $500 laptop isn't a logical comparison. features, aesthetics, build quality, warranty, support, and company history must also be considered. and, if cost is still the biggest factor to a buyer after all of those considerations then there are plenty of alternatives just like royhuang said above.

mcmanaman · #21 Post by **mcmanaman** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:21 am

- First of all it is very expensive, above 2500$ !!?

- Second, people didn't ask for larger displays, we only wanted Lenovo to shift toward wide screens. So a 12.1 inch wide screen would be better than making the laptop larger in size.

- Third, why only 1.2 GHz Core 2 Duo processors. (1.6 must be a minimum).

- Fourth, only 64 GB Solid State Drive. (Not even enough for a Vista Ultimate x64).

XCoalMiner · #22 Post by **XCoalMiner** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:21 am

Someone (Lenovo I presume?) has a very nice commercial comparing against the MacBook Air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnOCUkbix0

Note how many times it's been viewed.

jamess · #23 Post by **jamess** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:20 pm

I really liked the video. The number of views is also quite impressive.

#24 Post by **archer6** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:02 pm

erik wrote:
apbudha wrote:I don't like this "Tseries was between 2-3 grand 4 years ago" argument. <snip> These days you can get a great laptop for around 500-600, so this is just a joke.
you can buy a rolex for $5k or a timex for $50. you can buy a mercedes-benz S-class for $80k or a used car for $800. you can build a new house for $1M or buy a trailer for $10k. price is but only one small factor in purchasing a product and comparing the X300 to a $500 laptop isn't a logical comparison. features, aesthetics, build quality, warranty, support, and company history must also be considered. and, if cost is still the biggest factor to a buyer after all of those considerations then there are plenty of alternatives just like royhuang said above.

Very Well Said.... Thank You!

I chose none of the above because I have an excellent X60s which fills my needs perfectly for a small footprint thin and light ultra compact. I carry it with the slim 4 cell and it's terrific.

That said, I _WILL_ be purchasing the X500.

I'm very eager to obtain more info on that model. Based on the type of work I do, I'm simply used to a 15" display as it serves me best. Even if it adds some weight, and increases the price, it's well worth it.

Anyone out there have thoughts, rumors, whatever on the X500?

Cheers!

gcoin · #25 Post by **gcoin** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:10 pm

Puppy wrote:Extremly horrible display. No PCMCIA/ExpressCard slot, no HDD option.

Quite a statement for someone who has never seen one.

You have to realize the X300 is intended for the business user, as such, the mate finish of the screen, the rugged construction and many of the other characteristics make it a great, all around business tool.

I am very pleased with the X300 (best ThinkPad I have own) and I urge the people to actually test it before coming to harsh conclusions.

Cheers.

#26 Post by **archer6** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:02 pm

gcoin wrote:
Puppy wrote:Extremly horrible display. No PCMCIA/ExpressCard slot, no HDD option.
Quite a statement for someone who has never seen one.

You have to realize the X300 is intended for the business user, as such, the mate finish of the screen, the rugged construction and many of the other characteristics make it a great, all around business tool.

I am very pleased with the X300 (best ThinkPad I have own) and I urge the people to actually test it before coming to harsh conclusions.

Cheers.

I have been a long time ThinkPad user. I have owned almost every model and version in the T series lineup since the T20, I've also owned most of the X series. So my only point here is I know my ThinkPads. It's also important to note that I'm behind the keyboard of one everyday as it's my main computer due to traveling for work etc. Each ThinkPad listed in my signature has served me extremely well, and those are the ones that I have chosen to keep as each has a special value to me far beyond what they would sell for. That said my point is a simple one really.

After 9 weeks, my X300 arrived today at 10:30am, it's 3:40pm as of this writing and I'm here to state that this is a milestone product. I have been using it non stop since it arrived as I took the day off.

Fantastic build quality, great keyboard (as usual) and the optical drive is something that one has to see to appreciate as it's super thin, yet rigid, and very quiet. The fit and finish of this model is every bit as good, if not better than any ThinkPad I've owned. The display is very good. Evenly lit, good colors and a viewing angle that is greater than I anticipated as it's not FlexView like my T60 and T60p models are. I would evaluate the viewing angle of the display as greater than a non FlexView T -Series, and just a bit less wide as compared to the FlexView technology. As far as brightness is concerned it's also improved in that area.

All the complaints or people being critical of this display either have not seen it. Or want an entertainment laptop with a glossy screen for movies. For those of us who count on our ThinkPads for work and for their incredible reliability, stability, and performance know that these are professional purpose built machines that are focused on all the right things, which in this case is NOT to be fashionable. Or to have some glaring glossy screen. Also people who know what's important and know ThinkPads, are aware that they have never had the brightest screen. There is no need to, it's not about how bright the screen is, it's about overall performance. The brightness in nits, that is chosen for ThinkPads also takes into consideration that the display draws the most power of any component and therefore there is no reason to needlessly impact battery life just so they can be recognized as having the brightest display. I find the brightness factor to be more than satisfactory and frankly I end up turning mine down about 15% as it's more than sufficient. Structural rigidity when the chassis is flexed is quite stiff and very solid. For such a thin machine, this is one very robust laptop. Speaker quality is good as far as laptop speakers are concerned and do the job intended quite well.

I could not be happier. This is very encouraging as we go forward, with the release of more new models. Lenovo had done a fine job of taking over from IBM and the concern that I had when I first learned of the IBM/Lenovo transition, years ago, is gone. We have nothing but good equipment headed our way and the fresh designs begin with the exemplary X300.

Cheers!

#27 Post by **shfawaz** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:31 pm

If the poll here is any indication, price is indeed a factor keeping potential buyers from taking the plunge. With at least 10 forum member out of 46 responses stating they would buy an X300 if it were $1000 cheaper with a non SSD drive, this is a fair indication that the premium price of the X300 which is substantially attributed to the SSD is forcing potential buyers to stay on the sidelines.

If you subtract the 12 members who already own the X300 from the total of 46, you have 10 out of 34 members ready to buy an X300 if it was 1k cheaper. This is a significant percentage of potential buyers that are balking at the X300 because of the price.

This is a non-scientific poll of course, but it pretty much proves to me that the X300 would probably in more hands had it not been for its exclusive SSD drive that pushes its price beyond the reach of many fans.

#28 Post by **erik** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:42 pm

i'm not sure if you've seen the latest X200, T400/T500, W500, and R40/R500 pics but the X300 looks like it's going to be the highest-quality thinkpad for quite a while. given that, there's a good chance that they'll be SSD-only to remain in the upper echelon.

you can't buy a corvette without a V8 and you can't (currently) buy an X300 without an SSD. just like a corvette doesn't fit everyone's needs or budget in an automobile, the X300 doesn't fit everyone's needs or budget in an ultraportable. there's nothing wrong with that—it's just a fact of life.

the X200 will be more affordable than the X300 so an alternative will soon be available. just don't expect the X200 to be built the same.

qviri · #29 Post by **qviri** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:11 pm

shfawaz wrote:This is a non-scientific poll of course, but it pretty much proves to me that the X300 would probably in more hands had it not been for its exclusive SSD drive that pushes its price beyond the reach of many fans.

Well, of course. Except Lenovo is not in the business of putting top-of-the-line notebooks in hands of their fans at any cost.

The X300 is like the Corvette that doesn't cost an inordinate amount to insure and uses 4 L/100 km of gas. If Chevrolet was to offer a Corvette that uses 5 L/100 km of gas instead, but costs only $15 000, they'd undercut their core market pretty effectively.

pianowizard · #30 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:10 am

One reason why the X300 is so expensive is that Lenovo has been excluding it from sales and coupons, whereas virtually all other Thinkpad models are constantly 10 - 30% off on the Lenovo site. I bet that's just because the X300 is so new. After it has been around for a few more months, this will change. If we wait for a good sale, add a coupon on top of that, and purchase through eCoupons to get some cash back, we may be able to get a nice X300 for less than $2K.

UPDATE: I just realized that I can get an X300 with 3 years of warranty for only $2,200 through the grad school I attended, and I can pay for all of that using my grant money. Very tempting!

Why Aren't You Buying An X300?

Would you buy an X300 If it were $1k cheaper without an SSD?

Why Aren't You Buying An X300?

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