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Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

T400/T410/T420 and T500/T510/T520 Series
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louisenplatz
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Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#1 Post by louisenplatz » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:59 pm

I have been offered either one of two laptops either a T400 or T60p as a hand me down. Which one can be better for usage with windows 10? Thanks you.

Neil
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#2 Post by Neil » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:09 pm

T400 is much more powerful machine, unless the T60p has some special feature that makes it a better choice. But, T60p is limited to 3GB RAM which may or may not make any difference, but if you want to run Win 10 64-bit, it may struggle a bit on a T60. Anyway, of the two, I would probably choose the T400.
Collection = T430 - T500 - R400 - X300 - T61 (14" WXGA+) - R61 (15" SXGA+) - T60 - X40 - T43p - T43 - T42p - A30P

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#3 Post by louisenplatz » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:34 pm

Thank Neil.

My cousing who is giving me one of the two laptops is saying the same thing that the T400 is faster than then T60p but he also says that there is one big advantage of the T60p that is it has a IPS screen (dont know what this is) and he also says that maybe if the processor is replace then it might go faster than what it is now(T2600). He says the T60p has no modifications are done on it and is in original state.

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#4 Post by Screamer » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:40 pm

louisenplatz wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:34 pm
it has a IPS screen (dont know what this is)
It means that the display panel has a much wider viewing angle. Compared to normal TN display panels, IPS display panels can be viewed from extreme angles (far left, right, top or bottom). To some, this doesn't matter much, but it may for your use-case.
louisenplatz wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:34 pm
and he also says that maybe if the processor is replace then it might go faster than what it is now(T2600).
It will, but it won't beat the T400 in terms of speed. Even with a Core 2 Duo T7600G, the T60p won't reach the speed that the T400 is potentially capable of.

If you were to install a Core 2 Extreme X9100 or a Core 2 Duo T9600 in that T400, it'll smoke the T60p by a long shot.

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#5 Post by louisenplatz » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:44 pm

Thank you then to Neil and Screamer. I will gladly take the T400

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#6 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:24 pm

In my opinion you should take the T400 too unless you really care about having good screens. While putting a X9100 in a T400 might just stress the mobo way too much, the T9900 CPU is still a country mile faster than the T7600 that you can put in a T60.
Plus in my opinion you are paying quite a bit of premium for T60 and T61 with 4:3 screens compared to what you would've got from Dell or HP, while the T400 is much closer priced to something like a Latitude E6400 today.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#7 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:26 pm

The T60 marks the debut of the Core 2 Duo platform.

The T400 marks the end of the Core 2 Duo platform.

In the middle came the T61. We're talking about a space of 5yrs?

In that regard alone the choice is obvious. I dont think the T60 is viable platform in anything but a slimiline Linus these days.

Also 4:3 isnt viable unless you have one of the high resolution screens.

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#8 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:38 pm

Also, the T60 has 3 versions, differentiated by screen size: 14.1" 4:3, 15.0" 4:3 and 15.4" 16:10.

If you get the 1st one, there's no IPS screen for it, while the only T60 14.1" with 1400x1050 screen that I've encountered looked absolutely terrible.

Only the 15.0" 4:3 has IPS screen options.

The 15.4" 16:10 doesn't have IPS screens, but from what I've read some of the 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 screens are pretty good.

The T400 is limited to 1440x900 screens at best. No IPS options. But as others have said, its chipset supports faster processors, its built-in graphics is better, and the CD/DVD drives are standard SATA (but you still need to attach the plastic bits of the Ultrabay).
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#9 Post by kfzhu1229 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:13 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:38 pm
The 15.4" 16:10 doesn't have IPS screens, but from what I've read some of the 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 screens are pretty good.

The T400 is limited to 1440x900 screens at best. No IPS options. But as others have said, its chipset supports faster processors, its built-in graphics is better, and the CD/DVD drives are standard SATA (but you still need to attach the plastic bits of the Ultrabay).
Well for the most part the WSXGA+ and WUXGA screens are good enough compared to the Flexview IPS screens. You will soon get used to it even if you come from a Flexview IPS screen.
However though, I noticed the consistency isn't as good with these things. I have experience with 15.4" WSXGA+ LG Philips panel and WUXGA Samsung panel (2 each). The LG panel I have is just so much better despite the lower resolution. It has better contrast ratio, better viewing angles, and a bit more saturated colours (but not crazy oversaturated stuff on the AUO FHD panels that I have on my T520 and T530), plus it gave me far less issues.
My 2 LG Philips panels work well today while one of my Samsung WUXGA panels have a weird fault where the gamma value is totally wrong and it has lots of screen retention (so very much unusable), and the other has a red backlight. Had to swap the backlights between them to get one panel working.
This is also consistent with my experience with Samsung laptop LCD panels of like the 2000s to early 2010s.
Well but with the 1440x900 TN option and LED backlight options, the T400 can be leagues and bounds lighter than something like a WSXGA+ T6x.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#10 Post by TonyJZX » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:24 am

I've had a bunch of T400s and seen plenty.

Early ones had a dull grey looking CCFL powered screen.

Later ones had a LED powered one that looked a lot nicer.

Are they are TN? I've never seen a WS T60... only the unpleasant 14/15 units and they seemed pretty limited in what you can do with them.

The 3gb limit should be killing you right off the bad. Even the T61 WS model w/ 900p screen and nvidia nvs140 is kind of eww....

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#11 Post by unixed » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am

The screen is either an UXGA (1600x1200) or SXGA+ (1400x1050) 15.0" IPS screen and much better than anything available for the T400.
You can use the forum search facility to find out more of the technical details of IPS (in-plane switching) screens (FFS and AFFS are also IPS screens) but besides the wide viewing angles they have higher contrast ratio and deeper blacks -- in short they are much easier on the eyes and can be comfortably used for long periods and you don't have to constantly adjust either your or the screen position just so you can read from its extremities.

Provided the T60p screen is in good condition it is the clear choice.
If the chipset limitations don't negatively impact on what you use it for then problem solved. If it does prove limiting you can either sell it -- you can buy a T400 unit from the resultant income and pocket a chunk of change (vice versa you probably would struggle to even find a similar T60p) -- or swap it's planar (motherboard) for that of a T61 (creating a "frankenpad"), again a forum search will supply details.
Most likely though if running Windows 10 is a strict requirement the T60p will fail it.

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#12 Post by atagunov » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:33 am

unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am
The screen is either an UXGA (1600x1200) or SXGA+ (1400x1050) 15.0" IPS screen and much better than anything available for the T400.
I actually got a T60 with 1400x1050 screen and it's terribly dim. Just plain unusable. Particular screen needs checking. In the absence of info I'd forego T60.
unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am
Provided the T60p screen is in good condition it is the clear choice.
Clear choice? A 3Gb RAM machine versus machine that can be cheaply fit 8Gb? Not in my book..
unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am
If it does prove limiting you can either sell it -- you can buy a T400 unit from the resultant income and pocket a chunk of change
It will prove limiting. 3Gb will prove limiting no matter what way you look at it. Pocket a chunk of change? Hmm... Okay if the machine has a flawlessly working Win 10 it may sell on ebay.. But I really doubt the part about the change. In fact I think there might be a struggle to sell it at all. Nothing guaranteed. Why even bring on the trouble of selling on ebay onto yourself?..
unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am
you probably would struggle to even find a similar T60p
Actually I've lost count of how many times precisely this kind of motivation moved me to purchase wrong stuff.. Snatch or it will be gone! And then you end up with a room full of stuff you don't need.. Beware when you catch yourself thinking that, it's a clear sign not to buy.. In my experience..
unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am
or swap it's planar (motherboard) for that of a T61 (creating a "frankenpad"), again a forum search will supply details.
Yeah, it's possible, but it's work. And expenses. And if you want 8Gb you need to purchase DDR2 8Gb. Cost me £82 last time I bought it. Then it just disappeared from ebay. Not sure what the current situation is. And you need to probably avoid nVidia T61 boards because of nVidia issues... or snatch one of the last NOS boards on the planet.. at a very considerable cost..

T400 is a clear choice if that is the only Thinkpad to have. Yes the screen won't be stellar. Just put up with it. My view :)
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#13 Post by kfzhu1229 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:33 pm

unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:08 am
The screen is either an UXGA (1600x1200) or SXGA+ (1400x1050) 15.0" IPS screen and much better than anything available for the T400.
You can use the forum search facility to find out more of the technical details of IPS (in-plane switching) screens (FFS and AFFS are also IPS screens) but besides the wide viewing angles they have higher contrast ratio and deeper blacks -- in short they are much easier on the eyes and can be comfortably used for long periods and you don't have to constantly adjust either your or the screen position just so you can read from its extremities.
Well there are also the crappier XGA options and I assume that's not what OP has because he mentioned IPS.
IPS just gives you much better visual experiences over a low end TN panel like the ones on a XGA or HD (1280x800 or 1366x768) screens. This is also why your smartphone's screen is most probably much more pleasant to look at if size isn't a problem.
But the LED backlit WXGA+ screens on T400 can be much brighter (upwards of 400 nits for selected screens). Only dual CCFL backlit screens can get that bright (and those sip lots of power, trust me)!
If I am not spoiled by this whole good grade 15/15.4/15.6 screen thing (either good TN panel or IPS panel) I'd take the brighter and lighter screens instead.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#14 Post by unixed » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:49 pm

Provided the T60p screen is in good condition it is the clear choice.
The screen alone would be worth more than the T400.
I didn't mention eBay but you should learn how to determine the selling prices if you are going to use it rather than guess.
If abundant and cheap RAM is the main consideration, the OP can sell the pristine-screened T60p and buy a T420 -- and pocket the change.

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#15 Post by atagunov » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:55 pm

unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:49 pm
the OP can sell the pristine-screened T60p and buy a T420 -- and pocket the change.
Do we indeed know it is pristine-screened? Do we even know which screen that is?
Is there any confidence the T60 itself is not in a junk battered condition?

Indeed a prestine-looking T60 with a top-grade screen may be offered for good money on ebay.
How soon would a buyer show up though?

Then does the OP really want the trouble of selling and buying?
It's one thing if you offer to purchase that T60 from OP in exchange for T420 price and another to give advice generally..
kfzhu1229 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:33 pm
If I am not spoiled by this whole good grade 15/15.4/15.6 screen thing (either good TN panel or IPS panel) I'd take the brighter and lighter screens instead.
Sir, always enjoy your comments :) But I think you may have been a little cryptic here..
Last edited by atagunov on Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:21 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#16 Post by unixed » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:01 pm

There is a high nit (680 nit) T400 screen but if the donor points out the T60p has an IPS screen then he would do the same for the T400.
That would be the only variant I would even think of as an alternative to the T60p.
Mind you that screen still has the classic TN limitations, but you could use it in direct sunlight -- which I would do to spare my flexviews.
You notice how the Mona Lisa is shielded from harmful radiation.

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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#17 Post by atagunov » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:05 pm

unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:49 pm
I didn't mention eBay but you should learn how to determine the selling prices if you are going to use it rather than guess
I certainly have seen used 1600*1200 screens for 15" 4:3 T60/R60/R61 offered on ebay for what I think is stupid money, but I will not purchase them. I will go on AliExpress or TaoBao and hunt for HV150UX2-100 instead.. There at least will be a fighting chance to get a new one. And then I'll pay RBS for the cable/inverter mods or attempt them myself. Or I would go on AliExpress and purchase an unused HV150UX1-100 for less that $100 delivered and will plug that in without any extra expense. I don't think T420 costs less than $100

What I mean to say is that offer price is not a transaction price. The fact these screens are offered on ebay for surprising amounts does not mean it's easy to sell one for those amounts..
unixed wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:01 pm
There is a high nit (680 nit) T400 screen
I'd actually quite enjoy talking about this screen for a change. How much do they cost on ebay? Are there any new ones?
Last edited by atagunov on Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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kfzhu1229
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Re: Getting either T400 or T60. Which to take?

#18 Post by kfzhu1229 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:57 pm

atagunov wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:55 pm
Sir, always enjoy your comments :) But I think you may have been a little cryptic here..
You are welcome m8, though I hope you didn't mean sarcasm
atagunov wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:05 pm
I certainly have seen used 1600*1200 screens for 15" 4:3 T60/R60/R61 offered on ebay for what I think is stupid money, but I will not purchase them. I will go on AliExpress or TaoBao and hunt for HV150UX2-100 instead.. There at least will be a fighting chance to get a new one. And then I'll pay RBS for the cable/inverter mods or attempt them myself. Or I would go on AliExpress and purchase an unused HV150UX1-100 for less that $100 delivered and will plug that in without any extra expense. I don't think T420 costs less than $100
Well in my experience these screens can come a LOT cheaper than what eBay sells for if you hunt down some laptops instead on the likes of Gumtree or Craigslist.
I got a dual CCFL WUXGA screen in a perfectly pristine Dell Latitude E6500 for C$70, and a high brightness LED 14" WXGA+ screen AND a rare T9900 CPU in an also pristine Latitude E6400 for C$50.
The trick here is to ask around for type number for ThinkPads (and service tag for Latitudes), and then you can be quite confident it comes with the screen said in the specs. The seller on those platforms most of the time don't have the charger or the time to test these laptops anyway so he doesn't know anything worthy in these things. Though to be fair you are gambling at this point.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

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