New Cars Tracking Information

[Callahan]

This article was out today ... there is one sentence in the article that is amazing ... from the article:

"The analysis follows previous reporting on the amount of data modern cars can collect and share—with estimates saying cars can produce 25 gigabytes of data per hour."

So all these newer cars / trucks are producing huge amounts of data being stored somewhere. If a person can pick up some older pre-computer cars and taking good care of them to keep them running ... might keep you off the grid. I was just floored to read that a newer car could be producing 25 GB of data every hour. I suppose this is only with the car ignition activated.

How Your New Car Tracks You
Vehicles from Toyota, Honda, Ford, and more can collect huge volumes of data. Here’s what the companies can access.

Matt Burgess Security Jun 21, 2023

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... da-ford%2F

The article does say this information applies to US cars ... other countries being different.
...

[unix_joe]

My daily driver was designed in the last millennium and runs fine. It's paid off and does everything I need it to. No electronics until I bring my smartphone, plug into the AUX port, and listen that way.

Plus, I like the way it drives.

New cars are just not fun at all. I had a work rental a few months ago, for a few months ... the bright touchscreen had pwm flicker that was causing eyestrain while I drove at night; I had to turn it off. It was front wheel drive and would turn off at every stop to save gas. Then I would have to wait while the engine fired back up again when I floored it. For those of you who have been here in Pinehurst, it's annoying at the traffic circle.

There was one nice feature: it would detect when oncoming traffic was near and turn off the high beams. And then turn them back on once the car had driven by. Automatic high beams. Great invention. So why does every lifted GM/Chevy truck have blinding light and an inability to turn off their high beams when they drive opposite to me?

I don't care at all for new vehicles. The only thing I would consider the past 10 years is an FT86 or a GR86. Or maybe a Land Cruiser.

Electric cars are the future, I'm onboard. Make it happen.

But it doesn't have to be like this.

[theterminator93]

Cars producing and providing data is nothing new. Even back in the '90s cars had the capability of outputting quite a bit of data as it related to vehicle functions. In fact I use data on some of my older cars for fine-tuning of the powertrain programming. It was, in my opinion, the end of the "golden age" of functionality, serviceability, and features. As cars got newer and manufacturers "decided" that consumers "wanted" more techy-goodness in their vehicles, software got more complex and difficult to service without proprietary equipment and software - all protected (for now) by IP laws.

Being an IT professional, I'm not at all likely to click on a link that takes me to a gray-web '12ft.io' domain. But given what's being talked about here I'm imaging the article is written to paint a bleak and scary picture about all the horrible things the big tech/big auto industry does or can do with analytics they collect on vehicles. There's so much (potential for) data, it's not practical, feasible or worth considering that they'd devote resources to drilling down to looking into what one particular average Joe is doing with his car so they can extort him or turn his life upside-down. Now, on the other hand, they are very likely to take data amalgamations and quantify the results for broad interpretations that can be used to decide if certain features are being used. When/where/how, and whether they are being used the way they intended or designed. That then gets used with product engineering and marketing to "improve" the product. I'm sure there are disclosures available that can be scoured that outline exactly what these manufacturers are legally collecting data on, and how they use it (and with whom that is shared).

When people start to fret over what manufacturers, insurance companies, "big brother" and the like are doing that "might" target them and their "freedoms", I think they forget everything else in the world that has PII tied it. Your cell phone, your credit card(s), your ID, the license plate on your car, public records available regarding your property, even your face walking outside that passes in front of someone's Ring doorbell camera... by the way, don't think that using a proxy server "saves" you from being tracked online by your ISP or anyone else. I get wanting a certain amount of privacy, but the data a car generates that the manufacturer uses to analyze how their product performs should be the least of your concerns.

If it bothers you, yank the 4G (or 5G) modem and the 802.11 radio from the telecommunications subsystem.

I am 100% behind EVs coming onto market. When it comes time to finally retire my 23 MPG landyacht V8 coupe from the late 90s, I will be getting one. But that doesn't mean I'm rushing any of my cars to the scrapyard either. I like simple and old-fashioned, but I'm also getting to the point where fixing them myself takes more time and effort than it should/used to. More time than money has slowly turned into the opposite.

[unix_joe]

I am 100% behind EVs coming onto market. When it comes time to finally retire my 23 MPG landyacht V8 coupe from the late 90s, I will be getting one. But that doesn't mean I'm rushing any of my cars to the scrapyard either. I like simple and old-fashioned, but I'm also getting to the point where fixing them myself takes more time and effort than it should/used to. More time than money has slowly turned into the opposite.

I'm looking forward to an EV. Not looking forward to driving a modern car.

If I could fill my trunk with batteries and replace the V8 with a turnkey drop in EV engine to replace my small block, then that will be the way forward.

There are products on the horizon from both Ford and GM to win over the enthusiast market. Marques Brownlee was driving a 78 F100 EV for a while, that may have ended up in Jay Leno's garage.

I don't want something that adjusts my seat based on the position of my head because it has 37 cameras monitoring me all the time.

Just a simple vehicle with an electric motor.

Modern gas engines are being asked to meet standards they were never designed to do. They are hacks on top of hacks on top of hacks. Too complicated, a mess. Hence you get the GM engines turning off at stoplights to save gas. How about a ground-up redesign around an electric base?

[theterminator93]

We got a 2017 Fusion Energi just before the used car market bubble started to inflate at the end of 2020. It's been a nice bridge between a traditional vehicle and a full BEV since my wife can commute without using any gas, and for the most part any in-town errands we need to run also can be done wholly in EV Mode as well. No EV range anxiety either - though I'm finding that this is much less of a concern as I drive more.

What I abhor about it, though, is all the technogarbage integrated into the passenger "comfort" systems. All the apps and touchscreen junk drives me nuts!

[RealBlackStuff]

I'll drive my 2015 Hyundai iX20 (1.6 petrol/auto, 69k miles) for as long as it will last (hopefully at least another 8 years).
After that I would consider a hybrid, rather than an EV.
With my currently 3-4000 miles a year they can track me all they like.

[Callahan]

I always thought a hybrid might be the way to go. However I know very little about them ... I am currently driving a 2008 Honda Accord with under 100,000 miles so I hope it last for many more years. So the weight of an EV with batteries is more than a gasoline vehicle ... I read about 500 pounds more, give or take. So a hybrid will have all the batteries and still have a gas engine and a gas tank with that weight. The tires and suspension have to be super.

I thought I read about a month ago where a parking garage level collapsed from the extra weight of some EVs parked there. However, I can't seem to find the article. I did find about 20 articles with warnings about 'older' parking garages in the US and the UK were not built to handle a lot of the newer vehicles (EVs) with the extra battery weight. One article said the earlier garages were built with 1970 vehicles in mind.

Also the amount of water needed to put out one EV fire and if there are vehicles burning in a parking garage several levels up ... could be a nightmare with logistics.

There are several articles about the huge amount of water needed to put out an EV fire although the articles did say that battery fires are rare but they do happen.

I always wanted an old WW2 Army jeep (still in good shape) to drive around but I guess they would not be allowed on the highway in today's world. I personally could not afford an EV and then maybe have to replace the batteries down the road someday.

Just to add ... I was driving a 1991 Geo Prism in 2020 and it did have some limited early computer stuff in it as I read but then in early Sep 2020 a company van crashed into the rear as I was driving. The car was totaled but still driveable but would never pass another inspection ... no gas tank leak, so I found the 2008 Honda later that day. That Geo was my 'old WW2 Army jeep' (sort of) to bounce around in. So the newer Honda has more computers but nothing being sent anywhere I guess ... just too early for all that.

[unix_joe]

50 year old parking garages collapse because American infrastructure is collapsing, but sure, let's blame it on the weight of vehicles that in their best year only constituted 4% of the new car market and are 1% of the total car market overall.

There is a parking garage within walking distance of my house that collapsed last month. It was the top news story. It was a concrete truck that did it in. This country is kind of falling apart, that's all that happens anymore.

[TPFanatic]

I like my cars like my laptops: luxuriously ergonomic, transitionally styled, old enough to vote, and dirt-cheap to maintain and collect 100 of them.

[theterminator93]

The Energi's curb weight is a tad under 4000 lbs. The standard models without all the hybrid or EV tech (basic 4 banger) weigh about 500 lb less. Bear in mind though, most people nowadays are buying SUVs and trucks, most of which weigh closer to 5000 lbs than 3500-4000 lbs. Heck, even "sportscars" are weighing in at over 4000 lbs these days.