For Audiophiles Only! ;-)

[JHEM]

P.S. Nice pair of B&O's you got there. I'm dying to get a BeoCom 2. Even though I have 4 Beocom 6K's in the house. B&O fanatic.

I've got a house full of B&O "stuff". Way back in prehistoric times when I was in graduate school I was partners in a "high-end" stereo shop in NYC (Flushing, actually) and we were the local outlet for B&O, ESS, Bose, Tandberg, Tascam, MagnePlanar, Revox, etc., etc.

We installed whole-house custom sound systems ($$$) in homes that were built around Seeburg LP players. I got to visit the homes of a LOT of famous folks. We also did a lot of live broadcast and recording work for the local radio stations.

All of which didn't impact my graduate studies too badly!

Regards,

James

[CChoi83]

JHEM, that shop you're referring to in Flushing... Is it called Ultra Hi-Fi located on Northern Blvd? Owners name is Tony?

Hmm, if I knew we had audiophiles here on the forum I would've joined a lot sooner! I know that this is off-topic but I couldn't help myself.

As for B&O stuff, I have 4 Beocom 6000's with two master bases, Beosound 2300 with Beo4 remote, and a Beolink 7000 (my pride and joy)... still looking for a Beosystem 7000 with or without phono.

For the high-end stuff, looking to buy a tube preamp, amp, and a nice pair of monitors... my uncle is probably Ultra Hi-Fi's biggest client and he has a system that's pretty up there...

He resides in Oyster Bay (5 minutes from me) and he's got three systems in his listening room. Some of his components are Cary reference, Audio Research reference, Wadia, ProAc, Sonus Faber, MIT cables, Lightspeed power conditioning, VPI turntable, Esoteric for his SACD, etc... I'm looking to start building my system... and I want it to be all TUBE... very possibly, Cary preamp and amps and a nice cd-player or transport (w/ DAC unit) as my digital headend.

I'm loving this forum more and more now.

[Guest]

Here's another audiophile. I spent a good part of a few years hanging out in stores like sound by singer, lyric hifi and innovative audio. I've been in Ultra HiFi I think, I remember going into a hifi shop in Flushing on Northern Blvd. that was owned by a Korean gentleman and I couldn't believe what he had in there, he brought me downstairs where he had a room full of high end gear. I was trying to negotiate to buy a used Zoethecus amp stand but he needed it for a tube amp he had. My first high end speakers were ProAc Response 2's, they were so nice.

[CChoi83]

Here's another audiophile. I spent a good part of a few years hanging out in stores like sound by singer, lyric hifi and innovative audio. I've been in Ultra HiFi I think, I remember going into a hifi shop in Flushing on Northern Blvd. that was owned by a Korean gentleman and I couldn't believe what he had in there, he brought me downstairs where he had a room full of high end gear. I was trying to negotiate to buy a used Zoethecus amp stand but he needed it for a tube amp he had. My first high end speakers were ProAc Response 2's, they were so nice.

Indeed it was Ultra Hi-Fi. I haven't been there in a really long time but last time I went, he had a whole Meridian Digital Theater in the basement showroom. Meridian 800 series proc and cd/dvd player, DSP6000's all around, I think it was the Vidikron 1 CRT projector shooting an image on to a Stewart screen... insane. Any ProAc's are nice, especially their floorstand'ers . I actually ran in to the owner a couple of weeks ago at my uncle's house. His wife also goes to my church and is a good friend of mother so. MMMmmm... tube... yum.

[JHEM]

JHEM, that shop you're referring to in Flushing... Is it called Ultra Hi-Fi located on Northern Blvd? Owners name is Tony

No, it was SoundStage on Kissena Blvd at Elder Avenue. This was back in '72 to '74.

Regards,

James

[CChoi83]

Ok, I wasn't born back then... I'm only 20 (I will be 21 on the 21st of this month though, woo hoo, bla). So, anymore audiophiles and home theater geeks here? This is too awesome.

I WANT MY TUBES NOW!!!

[vincepoy]

Yeah, me too.. Anyone know what I should replace a Proceed AVP with since I don't think I want to buy the newly labeled Mark Levinson gear.

[JHEM]

Yeah, me too.. Anyone know what I should replace a Proceed AVP with since I don't think I want to buy the newly labeled Mark Levinson gear.

Turn from the Dark Side Vince and embrace B&K!!!

http://www.bkcomp.com/lifestyle_hometheater_S2.asp

Best thing to come out of Buffalo since hot wings!

Regards,

James

(Who's headed upstairs shortly to watch "I Robot" on my Denon based bedroom HT system 'cuz the boy and his squeeze are watching something on the REAL HT system in the family room!)

[vincepoy]

Yeah, me too.. Anyone know what I should replace a Proceed AVP with since I don't think I want to buy the newly labeled Mark Levinson gear.

Turn from the Dark Side Vince and embrace B&K!!!

http://www.bkcomp.com/lifestyle_hometheater_S2.asp

Best thing to come out of Buffalo since hot wings!

Regards,

James

(Who's headed upstairs shortly to watch "I Robot" on my Denon based bedroom HT system 'cuz the boy and his squeeze are watching something on the REAL HT system in the family room!)

Hmm, not sure about B&K since B&K is not really as high-end as Proceed which is now sold as Mark Levinson. Lexicon processors are good but I heard they suck for music but their processing with the Logic-7 is superior to everything out there for movies. Then there is the EAD, and some people mentioned the Parasound Halo C1/C2. Then there is the Krell Home Theater Standard 7.1. I guess the stuff I'm looking at costs atleast $6k. B&K is more of the Rotel grade stuff. Looking at your link, the Reference 50 S2 does look promising though but what's the MSRP on that thing and I don't think anyone in the San Francisco area that I can access by public transit sells B&K.

[JHEM]

Vince,

The B&K stuff is several levels above the Rotel gear IMHO.

The reference 50 series 2 control head will run you around $1800.

The reference 200.7 series 2 amp will run you around $2700.

Check for local dealers here: http://www.bkcomp.com/howtobuy.asp

Sometimes less is more.

Regards,

James

[CChoi83]

I used to have a B&K AVP4090 which was great. Paired it with a ADA PTM-6150 6 channel amp and it sounded great. The ergonomics on B&K's components are very simple and the design is just clean and very simple. Now I have a Denon AVR-5803 which sounds even better even though it is a receiver. I still prefer a pre-amp/proc paired with an external power amp but for now I'm satisfied (yeah right! never! ) .

I have to agree with both James and Vince in regards to yes; B&K does sound better than Rotel IMO and yes, B*K is not as up there to Proceed. I mean, Madrigal's products are amazing indeed but they had better be for that price. My favorite out of all the HT systems is still and probably always will be Meridian's. If I had a huge boat load of money to spend on HT, Meridian's Digital Theatre would be my top pick. After that, I don't know. For speakers, Snell's are pretty much up there and so are M&K's, etc. I wouldn't choose the latter for music though. Strictly music only systems require a different approach IMO.

Oh, I'm still looking to purchase a decent tube pre-amp (preferably Cary, Audio Research, AES, etc). Second hand is better for me as I'm not planning on upgrading every [censored] month because I heard something that sounds better. If any of you guys find anything, let me know. I'd really appreciate it (and yes I've been looking on Audiogon.com). Thanks in advance. Kudos!

Chris

[vincepoy]

Vince,

The B&K stuff is several levels above the Rotel gear IMHO.

The reference 50 series 2 control head will run you around $1800.

The reference 200.7 series 2 amp will run you around $2700.

Check for local dealers here: http://www.bkcomp.com/howtobuy.asp

Sometimes less is more.

Regards,

James

James,

The Rotel is actually supposed to be better than the B&K according to user feedback on avsforum. I'm not interested in a new amp though since my Proceed AMP5 which weighs 125 pounds already costs $5000 and it is truly high current as it does 250Watts at 4 Ohms and 125Watts at 8Ohms so it does double when the Ohms are lower unlike a lot of amps. The control head seems to be cheap enough but are the B&K's better in surround processing or do they sound better in stereo? I noticed that processors seems to always be good in one and bad in the other. The Proceed isn't bad but I don't want to spend another $6-7000 to upgrade to the AVP2 which is really a swap of parts and then have to buy the CVP. The Lexicon is the only one with the famous Logic-7 surround. There is Meridian too which Chris mentioned even though I haven't really heard one. I didn't pay retail for the Proceed though but rather dealer cost so I really paid like under $6k for both pieces which are supposed to be $10k.
I heard the Parasound Halo is supposed to be good too but that thing is huge and doesn't really offer more than the B&K either. Is the Reference 50 Series 2 processor really $1800 since that sounds like a steal at that price. Anyone know if Primare is any good? As for speakers, I actually have Totem Rokk's which are supposedly good as they are smaller due to the lock miltered(sp?) design.

[JHEM]

Vince,

You are seriously out of my level of home theater worship! You have more invested in just your Proceed AMP5 and speakers than I have in BOTH my home theaters.

(Any decent amp should output twice the RMS watts if the ohms are halved! But we're talking true RMS watts, not PEP which is a meaningless measure of performance.)

Yes, the B&K is a steal. It's MSRP is $2600 but is widely available for around $1800 on the street. I've got mine connected to three antique Phase Linear amps, a 700B for the front speakers, a 200 for the center channel and a 400 for the rear speakers. Speakers are all Synergy Series F-3 from Klipsch (from eBay!) except for the sub-woofer which is a Yamaha YST-SW1500.

(I would feel remiss if I didn't mention in passing that my PL700s are now 32 years old and going strong! Best part is that all of my PLs were gifts from Bob Carver himself.)

I listen to a lot more music on my systems than movies and have the whole house wired with various Klipsch, Teac (Pro Monitor) and Infinity speakers strategically placed around the house.

I've got my old Dokorder receiver and Nakamichi 700 here in the shop wired to my venerable Tannoys and AR3As. Even have my old AR turntable sitting here with it's Rabco SL8E straight line tracking tonearm and Ortofon cartridge when I feel like spinning some of my DGG and R&R vinyl.

Might as well finish the greater part of the inventory, got a Beosound 9000 (old MK I type) connected to a pair of BeoLab Penta 1s in the sunroom. Wife's got our "antique" Beocenter 1400 in her office connected to a pair of Beovox 1100s. Got a Beosystem 3000 in the kitchen connected to a pair of Beovox P45 panel speakers.

I have GOT to have a garage sale one of these days as there's so much stuff in "storage". I've got a brand new Tandberg TCD310 cassette deck still in it's original box, same for a Revox A77 tape deck, a Tascam 12 channel mixer, etc., etc.

Regards,

James

[vincepoy]

James,

I guess you're talking about Home theater which is a different requirement than a Home theater and one that sounds good in stereo mode. I don't have the Totem Model 1 but the Totem Rokk's which were like $800 a pair, can't remember the price since I got them from my friend at cost. The Proceed AMP5 costed me $3200 at dealer cost and not $5000 retail either. The same price is on the Proceed AVP-S which is $5000 retail but I got it at $3200 cost. As far as any decent amp being able to output twice the RMS watts, I think you need to look again. Only the really high-end with dedicated transformers are able to offer twice the wattage at half the Ohms. Let's take a look at the B&K Reference 200.7 S2 which I assume should be the tops for B&K. It's 200W RMS at 8Ohms and 375W RMS at 4Ohms. That is not twice the wattage and there is no rating for 2Ohms either assuming it can even handle that. Proceed is basically the entry level Mark Levinson so the amps have balance topology inside.

As for the B&K, MSRP is what's important because dealers here will not sell for less than MSRP. I mean even in the dealer list, BestBuy/Magnolia Hi-Fi will not sell for less than list price.

[JHEM]

As for the B&K, MSRP is what's important because dealers here will not sell for less than MSRP. I mean even in the dealer list, BestBuy/Magnolia Hi-Fi will not sell for less than list price.

You're kidding! Right?

It was long ago established in state law here in the backwards East that MSRP is just that, a suggested price, and dealers who agree together to only sell at that price are engaging in price fixing.

There was a watershed case involving Sony and a NYC based retailer way back in the 70's that Sony lost when they attempted to force the retailer to only sell their products for the MSRP.

Heck, just get the unit online: http://www.downtownaudio.com/bk2.html or http://shop.store.yahoo.com/aboutgizmos ... nce50.html

Regards,

James

[vincepoy]

No, I'm not kidding. Even though MSRP is a suggested price, retailers will usually sell at that price. Just like when you goto CompUSA, what's on the pricetag is what you pay. You can't go bargaining and hope they'll sell it to you... I mean look at Crutchfield, do they sell for less than the full retail price? And let's not forget Fujitsu, Pioneer, Denon who now requires you to buy stuff from authorized dealers only because they can charge full price for it. As for getting the unit online, will B&K even honor the warranty since it may be selling for that online but it may not come from legal distribution sources.

[gengar]

As for the B&K, MSRP is what's important because dealers here will not sell for less than MSRP. I mean even in the dealer list, BestBuy/Magnolia Hi-Fi will not sell for less than list price.

I've talked down prices at Magnolia three times now, although not for B+K gear. Twice when I was helping friends set up their entry-level HT systems, and once for a pair of small DefTech bipolars for myself. In fact, I was offered up front about 12% off MSRP on the bipolars and was able to take them down further (slightly less but similar discounts on the other systems). This was the store across Winchester near Stevens Creek (by Valley Fair mall) in Santa Clara.

Authorized dealer systems are generally much different than larger corporate structures like Crutchfield and CompUSA. Not only is there much more stringent management control, but neither has a problem selling their products and therefore they are unlikely to consider any bargaining attempt. Crutchfield is also an on-line company, which makes any kind of haggling rather moot. Additionally, computer parts resellers are a bad example because the products they sell generally have much lower margin than goods you see in authorized dealer structures.

The only situtation in which I could see a refusal to bargain is when the dealer is the only one in the area. That doesn't mean that they won't, though (just don't show up at the door in your Lexus).

I have never, ever bought any of my speakers at MSRP, nor will I ever. If a dealer refuses to discuss price, I am out the door. I of course must conditionalize my next statement because I've never dealt with B+K dealers before, but frankly, if you're paying MSRP for speakers, you are getting ripped off.

[vincepoy]

I know what you mean but how to you discuss prices with them since I know they will always waive the delivery costs as I don't have a car and Magnolia is part of a larger corporate structure now since it's now owned by Best Buy. I mean a store in San Francisco that is a one store independent dealer who sells Anthony Gallo speakers wouldn't even discount the speakers even a penny off list price and there aren't that many Gallo dealers around that actually have the speakers in stock. I just hope the Gallo Due wasn't a mistake since that is one thing I bought at full price.

[vincepoy]

Just read about these and they look interesting...




http://www.classicpumps.com/mpumps.htm

[emorphien]

They carry bose?