What do you think of a new thinkpad series?

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Merlyn_3D · #1 Post by **Merlyn_3D** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:35 pm

One that would be based off the T series, but include the aesthetics and features seen in some of the powerbooks or sagre notebooks (like better speakers, tv tuner, etc). I think it'd be awesome (and no they wouldn't have to do away with the T series, everyone would have a choice). I love my T30, but I have been thinking why IBM couldn't, say, use those cool blue LEDs or have a backlit keyboard instead of the thinklight (which I still think is pretty cool). What do you guys think, would you be interested?

cchsiao · #2 Post by **cchsiao** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:49 pm

It should be still the battery issue. I think if you use a backlit keyboard, it will consume more power and shorten the battery time. And, furthermore, it's not "business" style of notebook.

Merlyn_3D · #3 Post by **Merlyn_3D** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:53 pm

cchsiao wrote:It should be still the battery issue. I think if you use a backlit keyboard, it will consume more power and shorten the battery time. And, furthermore, it's not "business" style of notebook.

My point is what if they made a thinkpad that wasn't meant to be "business" style. Much like the powerbook, the backlit keyboard would come on with a sensor that detects the ambient light level. It wouldn't be more of a battery drain than the thinklight.

#4 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:01 pm

Good grief.

rickslate · #5 Post by **rickslate** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:04 pm

Personally, I think the Thinkpad design looks like complete crap. I would love to see the entire line get a complete makeover (something closer to the PowerBook in design would be very nice). That said, there are of course problems with swappable parts, transition costs, etc. but I think it's about time that the line got a major facelift. The purists will be here in a second ranting about how elegant the current design is (it isn't) and how Thinkpads are for business professionals and need not look snazzy. IBM has already nailed performance and durability. They should give a shot at design.

P.S. I would absolutely love backlit keys on the Thinkpad line.

primedude · #6 Post by **primedude** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:11 pm

Purist here. One, design is completely objective, so I'm not going to bother arguing that. I'll leave it as saying that I disagree vehemently with anyone who thinks that the ThinkPad should look more like a Powerbook or feature blue LEDs.

Two, to address a particular request, why a backlit keyboard? What would it do that the Thinklight doesn't already do? It would only introduce cost and complexity and, my guess, would in fact drain battery life quicker than the Thinklight. What if your keyboard goes out (or what if you decide you want to swap out your Chinese keyboard for one made in Thailand)? Yeah, IBM will cover it if it's under warranty, but it's not going to be a free lunch. It'll raise prices for you and for everyone else. And if it's not under warranty, have fun paying, say, $110 for what is currently a $50 part.

Some people find beauty in simplicity. I'm one of them. The ThinkPad's relatively unyielding design is a testament to the original designers. Clean, sleek, simple -- and, dare I say, beautiful.

kev009 · #7 Post by **kev009** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:29 pm

IBM is all about business. That's why I like it. When I play my games I mean business

.

I thought the new designs of Sony and Dell were cool a couple years ago when I had my T30. Then time passed and my notebook still looked like new while friends had all sorts of wear and tear like bezel cracks. The classic TP rubberized plastic is unbeatable. The ThinkPad look will gain you respect from those in the know and differentiate you from the get it as cheap as you can Dell type people to someone who thinks in the long term and takes pride in their equipment. When I do scripting jobs, I always get compliments on my notebook, especially with the 1" thickness of the T4x!

We'll see design change in the T5x.. but IBM[/Levono] knows its roots.

JHEM · #8 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:32 pm

rickslate wrote:Personally, I think the Thinkpad design looks like complete crap.

This is why we have horse races, differences of opinion.

Since the Thinkpad was introduced in 1992 its minimalist "less is more" flat black finish and slim outline have established the baseline of what is considered to be a "real" laptop.

Based on the bento lunch box common everywhere in Japan, they elicit the same sense of wonder as to its contents, and joy at what's uncovered when opened.

I personally hope they never change the overall look of the Thinkpad. It has the same muscular, ready for work aura as my Mercedes "Hammer".

What you're asking for is a jacked up non-turbo Subaru with 18" spinners and a stock factory AM radio. All show, no go.

Regards,

James

Marc_G · #9 Post by **Marc_G** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:56 pm

I'm a diehard Thinkpadder.

I care what it does. I care how much it weighs. I care what size it is. I care how quickly I can get support.

Within reason, I don't care what color it is, or whether the edges or rounded, or whether it has tail fins, or multicolor LEDs.

I buy business machines to get things done.

Marc

Merlyn_3D · #10 Post by **Merlyn_3D** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:39 pm

I think you guys aren't quite getting it, I'm not saying revamp the T series, I'm saying make a copy of the T series lineup and update the aesthetics. In essences, you'd have your regular T series, then you'd have something like a TX series, which is a stylized T-series. You'd have the choice of which you'd like to buy.

warmstrong · #11 Post by **warmstrong** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:10 pm

As a longtime ThinkPad user (my first was the first: a 700C), and a designer as well, albeit not a product/industrial designer, I have always thought that the ThinkPad family sat at the pinnacle of product design. There have been some ups and downs: the A20s and A30s got a bit lumpy and massive, not to mention the G and R series. The i series was a disaster on many fronts.

In my opinion the only other computer company that has successfully produced good design for laptops is Apple, and they have produced some real dogs, too. All of the other manufacturers are either IBM wanabees, Apple wanabees, or "out there" trying too hard to create good product design with relatively bad taste (e.g., Alienware, many of the Dells, etc. etc). I will say that Asus is doing a pretty good job, though. Apple's newest laptops are beautiful, but follow an in-your-face aesthetic that the Apple faithful love, but that many others find difficult to grab onto. Besides which, I've never seen an Apple laptop display that comes anywhere close to what you get from an IBM ThinkPad display.

I doubt that we will ever see a raw skinned aluminum or titanium ThinkPad. Maybe liquid metal alloy or some other hard skinned metal or compsite, but not something that scratches easily (and I've lived through the ThinkPad peeling paint debabcle!) or that calls too much attention to itself.

Having said all this, I would like to see IBM move themselves into the widescreen and Media Center arenas. I think that they have much to offer. Remember that IBM offered an add-in tv tuner ages ago with what I think was their 750 series. And they were the first, AFIK, to offer 1600x1200 laptop displays. This was revolutionary! And still is. Have you ever seen a widescreed DVD played on a 1600x1200 IBM laptop display? It's awesome! Apple certainly does not offer a display of this quality and resolution. I think Sony does a good job on their displays (after all it is their forte). So does Toshiba.

I doubt that in the near future we can expect any radical changes in the form factor of the ThinkPad line. Maybe a widescreen model. And maybe another stab at the tabletPC. A backlit keyboard seems like a possibility, but I doubt it's a priority. Given the corporate buyer base of the T and X series ThinkPads, I would look for continued improvements in security and durability features.

All in all, the ThinkPad line in general is right up there as one of the most successful products ever produced. It's nearly perfect.

JMHO

Regards,
Bill Armstrong

asiafish · #12 Post by **asiafish** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:13 pm

I think IBM has the look and feel spot-on. I own a new PowerBook, the tiny 12" model, and it is a great look machine. Every time the PowerBook comes out in public, it attracts attention. It is the epitome of modernity, style and class.

Of course, my 4-year-old ThinkPad T22, at least from people who know what it is, gets a similar reaction. Like the PowerBook, it is beautifully styled, well made, high quality and oozes class.

Should the new Mercedes be made to look more like the BMW? Why shoud it, they are both premium products that have their loyal followers, and are frequently compared with each other.

The ThinkPad look has retained some design elements for its entire long production run. Apple has fundamentally changed the PowerBook a few times, but always the changes are evolutionary at the time. The PowerBook 500 series of 1994 were radically new machines that introduced the touchpad to the world, but they were similar to the older 1XX models of the previous three years, as is every laptop today, in that they had the palmrests and pointing device in front of the keyboard.

The basic pattern of the 500-series lasted a number of years until the Titanium of a few years back, and even today's aluminum models are just evolutionary when looked at next to the titanium.

Yes, ThinkPads are still black and still have red TrackPoint caps, but like POwerBooks, there has been a lot of change over the years too. ThinkPads have gotten thinner, lighter, more ergonomic and have added useful features like the ThinkLight, wihtout losing their identity.

Pull out ANY Apple PowerBook and it is obviously something special. Pull out ANY ThinkPad and it will get the same reaction.

Keep the neon lights and TV tuners for the plasticrap at Best Buy, I want refined class, robust construction and the look and feel of quality. In short, I hope I remain fortunate enough to have both a high-end ThinkPad and the smallest PowerBook they make.

kev009 · #13 Post by **kev009** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:33 pm

Historically, its not going to happen. That may change with the recent buyout, and if it were to happen I bet you hit it on the money that they'd launch a new product line. Don't expect T series features though.. probably a descendant of the G or R.

IBM doesn't do a lot of marketing for ThinkPads, and they don't try and appeal to the audience your plan would please. They are designed for businesses and to be deployed in droves as a functional machine rather than a piece of aesthetic art to please the eye the less knowledgeable or conciencious consumer buyer than a business one. I wouldn't mind a new line because obviously we'd have the power of choice though I think it would more or less be a flop (what store can you even go to to LOOK at a ThinkPad anymore?).

Just my .02 of practicality. I still love what we have though and the beauty of simplicity is great. I like being able to work on my ThinkPad and use it as a tool not being distracted since I'm a procrastinator.

manixc · #14 Post by **manixc** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:26 am

I'm interested in a 12" ThinkPad with internal CD/DVD drive.

#15 Post by **thePCxp** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:59 am

I think that the ThinkPad design looks great and that It should stay that way. They look great in black and I like the metal hinges. I don't care how much a ThinkPad weights or the tickness/thiness. I like the ThinkLight and I think that there shouldn't be a backlit keyboard on ThinkPad's. So if you think that the ThinkPad design looks like crap, it doesn't.

Merlyn_3D · #16 Post by **Merlyn_3D** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:12 am

thePCxp wrote:I think that the ThinkPad design looks great and that It should stay that way. They look great in black and I like the metal hinges. I don't care how much a ThinkPad weights or the tickness/thiness. I like the ThinkLight and I think that there shouldn't be a backlit keyboard on ThinkPad's. So if you think that the ThinkPad design looks like crap, it doesn't.

Read the original post, I'm not saying the design looks like crap, I just think it'd be a nice idea to have an option of a more modern design.

#17 Post by **BillMorrow** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:36 am

lets see..
blue and green neon lights..
backlit keyboards..
transparent keytops..??
hell, lets add multicolor stripes and a tv tuner..
and chrome highlight ridges..
and wheels.. yeah, wheels..!
wheels to help with the added weight of the battery needed to run all that crap..

crap..
i must, with the greatest of respect to the people who are attracted to such stuff, tell you that it is plain crap..
its the sort of thing that disguises crummy engineering..

i hope that ibm resists any such thoughts and continue to put the $$ into cutting edge engineering and not flash and bang!..

beeblebrox · #18 Post by **beeblebrox** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:29 am

Interesting debate about designs here.

It was quite revealing to me that when I visited several exhibitions in design museums (I love industrial design) in the MoMa and the new one in Munich, there were only Apples and ThinkPads as representatives for outstanding design.

I think, if you have spent 10 years to build up a brand image with black, clean state-of-the-art Thinkpads you wouldn't want to kill it by introducing blue lights, funky colors, etc.

The classic car brands like Mercedes, BMW or Porsche have new cars every few years, but still you can identify a classic design immediately. The newest 911 is recognizible immediately as a Porsche.
So is the ThinkPad, even from across the exhibition hall.

I found it also interesting that HP has re-designed their business notebooks. Away from silver colors, back to classic black (are they trying to loot IBM's customer base??).

I think, that silver and black are eternal high-tech colors (look at hi-fi systems: black and silver), silver is taken by too many, so black stays as the IBM color.

Besides, I worked for some time with iMacs. After a while they look really dirty.

I rather would like to see IBM getting back to the leading-edge of technology. I think their strategy right now is not really focused! They currently have leaflets in many popular computer magazines, and their market approach resembles Dell. More or less direct sales!
However their products do not feature the "necessary" specs that common buyers are looking for (good graphics, wide screen, speed, lower price), so I think they are wasting money with a wrong marketing strategy.
I am sure that Lenovo (if ever they will be allowed to buy the PC business) will not change the Thinkpad design at all, but rather add another Thinkpad consumer line like HP or Dell.

Steve007 · #19 Post by **Steve007** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:09 am

Merlyn_3D wrote:What do you guys think, would you be interested?

A ThinkPad is a business tool. If you want flashing lights, backlit keyboards and other obscene pointless additions buy a Vaio or PowerBook.

Personally, I think the ThinkPad T4x series look absolutely fantastic. Thin, light, minimalistic, functional and it looks the business.

Tsuioku · #20 Post by **Tsuioku** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:07 am

I really like the look of the current TPs...
To me.. Flashy things just yell to people "Steal me".. I like to keep a lower profile and not have to worry about my belongings...

I actually had a person come up to me once making fun of my T41P... saying how old and crappy it looks... Some people may have found it offensive but I was just trying not to laugh...

The main thing that I hope TPs could change on is portability...
I was hoping that designers would shave half an inch off the depth and decrease the key pitch of the T series to make it more compact... sorta like a larger version of the X40. But with the release of the T43, this does not look like it's going to happen anytime soon.

Other changes that I would love to see are swapping the Fn and Ctrl keys, upgrading the speakers, symmetric hinges and a more accessible mPCI slot. Small changes that make the T series more convenient while maintaining it's professional stature...

Further in the future, maybe they can redesign or reposition the IBM logo to give things a fresher look and maybe even introduce a wide screen..

There are several things that do not need changing though.. Stick with black (silver way over done these days), keep the rubber coating and most importantly.. Stay with the pursue of cutting edge technology...

rocketman · #21 Post by **rocketman** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:52 am

A ThinkPad is a business tool. If you want flashing lights, backlit keyboards and other obscene pointless additions buy a Vaio or PowerBook.

Why shouldn't IBM make a consumer based notebook in addition to business notebooks. The T series is great but IBM is losing (or lost) business by not addressing the consumer who wants wide screen displays and more multimedia features. And by the way, "obscene additions? the Powerbooks backlit keyboard is beautiful, the exact opposite of "obscene".

CChoi83 · #22 Post by **CChoi83** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:55 am

A Powerbook is an executive's toy. A Thinkpad is an executive's tool. IMO, I like the way the Thinkpad's look. It's all business. I really can't stand the look of Dell's and others. I mean, some of the other notebook's are nice but the overall look and feel of the Thinkpad is my choice when it comes to being a roadwarrior. As for the backlit keyboard, it's not a bad idea. I loved it when the Powerbook came out (probably my second choice when it comes to asthetics). But as the other's said, cost and complexity is not really necessary... but then again, who am I to say right? One thing that I would like changed is the Bluetooth indicator. I wish it came in the original color. Maybe the blue clashes too much with the green led's. If only IBM was the official Ferrari F1 team's sponsor... a gleaming Ferrari red Thinkpad... that would be awesome (yeah, I'm a huge F1 fan). Acer can go screw themselves (no offense to those who own/use them).

As for the "steal me" part, I transport my T42 in a Pelican Case so... people stare at me everytime I walk in to my parents store (supermarket business). I'm 21 and I drive a 03' E320 most of the time, especially when I'm driving in with my mother so, I guess the case looks like a money case or something.

My friends say it looks like a *insert object here* case.

Steve007 · #23 Post by **Steve007** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:09 am

rocketman wrote:
A ThinkPad is a business tool. If you want flashing lights, backlit keyboards and other obscene pointless additions buy a Vaio or PowerBook.
Why shouldn't IBM make a consumer based notebook in addition to business notebooks. The T series is great but IBM is losing (or lost) business by not addressing the consumer who wants wide screen displays and more multimedia features. And by the way, "obscene additions? the Powerbooks backlit keyboard is beautiful, the exact opposite of "obscene".

We do not aim our products at the consumer, hence why there isn't an illumines yellow coloured unit with a 17.4" WXGA screen, NVIDIA 6800 GPU, backlit keyboard, built-in TV tuner available (sarc).

Most professional users who actually require a WS display will use their ThinkPad docked anyway with a >20" panel or failing that will own a PowerBook or even *shock horror* a desktop PC which is far more suited to high-end work.

The consumer may think they want a WS panel, but that's only because it's seen as the fashionable way to go for a notebook that is meant to do everything from watching DVD's to playing games. There's simply no need for a WS panel in a business machine. If there was they'd be a WS ThinkPad available right now.

And remember, these silly multimedia 'portable' machines like Dell's hideous 9xxx series weigh around 4-5KG!

However, maybe in the future Lenavo will introduce a consumer line based on the ThinkPad image? You can't rule it out.

Aramitz · #24 Post by **Aramitz** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:28 am

warmstrong wrote:All in all, the ThinkPad line in general is right up there as one of the most successful products ever produced. It's nearly perfect.

JMHO

Regards,
Bill Armstrong

It's my HO too
Evolution not revolution

MobileGuru · #25 Post by **MobileGuru** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:49 am

I think would be absolutely horrified if the ThinkPad turned into a LCARS console commonly found on the bridge of the Enterprise .. lights flashing, bells ringing and disco ball a spinnin.

G.

asiafish · #26 Post by **asiafish** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:20 am

Hate to break your bubble, but the PowerBook is also a rather serious tool. Apple backlit the keys (on the big ones) while IBM put an LED up top, two approaches to the same problem (and likely Apple's avoidance of licensing IBM's patent).

Like the latest ThinkPads, the latest PowerBooks have a circuit that parks the hard drive heads in the event of a fall. PowerBooks accept ample memory (2GB on the big ones, 1.25 on the small one), have excellent displays, terrific keyboards and they run a robust UNIX operating system. They do this in a thin and light package that, like IBM, has excellent industrial design.

This being a PC-oriented forum I will forgive the ignorant Apple-bashes, but anyone who actually uses a Mac (preferably a PowerBook) knows well that it is a premium, high-quality product that like the ThinkPad, was designed for getting real work (and play) done.

Steve007 wrote:
Merlyn_3D wrote:What do you guys think, would you be interested?
:lol:

A ThinkPad is a business tool. If you want flashing lights, backlit keyboards and other obscene pointless additions buy a Vaio or PowerBook.
and it looks the business.

asiafish · #27 Post by **asiafish** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:23 am

The ThinkPad is a PC-platform tool, while the PowerBook is a Mac OS X tool. They are aimed at different markets, but the PowerBook is definitely not a toy, unless of course, you consider viruses, spyware, trojans and worms to be serious work.

[quote="CChoi83"]A Powerbook is an executive's toy. A Thinkpad is an executive's tool.

mattfromomaha · #28 Post by **mattfromomaha** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:40 pm

I really agree with the purists here. I love the styling of my T30 much like that of the original Hummer. The form follows function, which is IMHO how it should be.

The iSeries ThinkPad was a flop. It could have been done better and probably worked out, but there is an important consideration. IBM is a business company. They've developed that reputation for a century: they make business products. They do a [censored] good job at it. Yes, they can always branch out and maybe do well in other markets, but at the same time it can also damage the reputation of the items it makes well. It's all in the marketing..

rhema83 · #29 Post by **rhema83** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:49 pm

As a Thinkpad owner and supporter, I would like to remind the purists that a Powerbook is not an overpriced toy either. It is also a powerful "tool" used by professionals, especially multimedia creators. The PC and Windows platform is lagging behind in terms of multimedia creation. Just look at Pro Tools.

#30 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:13 am

yes, apple seems to have a large share of the media market..
the motorola 68000 was an excellent cpu in 1982 (or whenever it arrived on the scene) and i assume that apple still uses the current generation..

what i would like to see is OS-X running on the PC platform, especially the thinkpad..
i am not alone..
but it seems this can not happen..

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