Ready to return it...

[crazygopedder]

So, I ordered an X100e on Feb 3, and received it Feb 16. First thing I did was to install a 2GB Kingston module (for 3GB total physical RAM), and do a fresh install of Windows 7 Professsional. After the install, I ran driver sweeper to remove the ATI drivers bundled with Windows 7. I then rebooted, ran the graphics driver setup straight from Lenovo (6xd806ww) and rebooted after it was installed. The system lags horribly running Flip3d, Ribbon screensaver, etc. I have set powerplay to maximum performance. I have also tried disabling link state power management. For some reason though, with a YouTube video open in Firefox, all aero functions and screensaver run with no lag. I can't figure it out. I find it hard to believe that the drivers from ATI are this bad, and I'm starting to think maybe I just got a bad card. Regardless of the cause of the issue, it shouldn't be happening. My old IdeaPad S10 runs better.

Unless someone knows how to fix this I'll be returning the machine to Lenovo.

[ThinkRob]

Unless someone knows how to fix this I'll be returning the machine to Lenovo.

Or.... you know... you could sell it for a ridiculously low price to some lucky member.

[Vempele]

You could start by going back to the restore point you created before removing the Windows-supplied driver...

[crazygopedder]

*Typing this from my X100e*

Well, perhaps I was overly frustrated with a minor annoyance. The system is great, and there's nothing wrong hardware-wise (I ran the diagnostic tool). I'm pretty sure it's a bug in the drivers from ATI...or maybe they think it's a feature. Also, the performance initiator seems to not just be YouTube videos; any process that starts taking up system resources kicks the graphics into high performance mode. I ran the UT2004 demo on it and it runs fine. I also ran some 720p video which ran fine.

This is my third attempt at clean installing now and this time I installed everything in (what seemed to me anyway) the correct order. This was with UAC disabled (or scaled back) temporarily and running every setup application as Administrator. The power management and system interface drivers etc, then the graphics driver, card reader, etc, and then all the ThinkVantage utilities.

If someone can try the Ribbons screensaver or Flip3d on a machine with the untouched Lenovo preload, I would greatly appreciate any feedback. I suspect there's something slipstreamed into the Lenovo Enhanced Experience image to fix this. If not then it's still a bug that Lenovo/ATI need to fix (IMO).

[Jason404]

Did you make an image of the HDD before you wiped it? Or can you use a recovery disc? You should analyse exactly which drivers are installed as standard, making note of the version numbers.

Are you sure that the video driver from Lenovo is a newer one than the standard Windows WHQL one? Have you tried seeing if there is a newer one at the AMD/ATi site? I have found that the standard Windows 7 Windows Update drivers for some nVidia chipsets are newer than any at the nVidia site, or anywhere else.

YouTube uses Flash, and Flash is hardware accelerated on Windows now (for ATi/nVidia/Intel graphics that are not more than three or four years old), so it does not use any more CPU power.

It sounds like hardware acceleration is turned off on your laptop, until Flash turns it on. Strange. Check to see if your Power Options are not turning it off somehow.

[crazygopedder]

Nope, all power settings are set correctly. I've tried just about every driver available (from Windows Update, from Lenovo, from ATI, etc). I'm pretty sure this is a hardware bug in the ATI card. As I said, it's not just YouTube that kicks the graphics card into gear. I'm gonna give Windows 7 Professional 64 bit a go; if the issue persists I'm returning the machine. I don't care if I have to pay to have Lenovo re-image it or whatever...I just want the majority of my money back. I just want a machine that can run aero smoothly, which isn't too much to ask from a brand new notebook. If the factory preload has to be there for this to happen, I don't want the machine anyway, and regret my purchase. I may look at getting an X200s...

[Jason404]

As Win7 x64 uses different drivers, that is well worth a shot. Tell us how it goes.

[crazygopedder]

Well I'm still waiting for my ISO to finish downloading...

Question though: does anyone think the problem could be caused by the different size RAM modules? I removed the 1GB module and booted (32-bit still) from just the 2GB, but the problem persisted. Think I should try 2x2GB? I might have another compatible 2GB module in another machine...

[laughingtonto]

Looks like Lenovo released a BIOS update on 1/20. Are you running this?

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 74463.html

-Todd

[crazygopedder]

Yes, my machine had the latest BIOS from the factory (1.10a-1.10)

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[visionviper]

Have you tried installing the AMD drivers from the AMD website?

[crazygopedder]

Please read my above post(s)...I have tried installing the drivers from ATI/AMD, no difference.

I got Windows 7 Professional x64 installed (with 2x2GB of RAM) and drivers updated, but the problem persists.

I'm chalking it up to a hardware bug...the machine will be going back to Lenovo, and though the X200s looks nice in terms of hardware, I'll have a tough time buying another machine from Lenovo.

Very disappointed in this machine.

[yak]

Have you tried setting Maximum Performance profile in Power Manager? Did you have the same issue before wiping the standard OS?

[jdhurst]

If you are convinced the machine doesn't work right, send it back. I have an older T61p that came with Vista 64-bit, nVidia display adapter, and 4Gb of IBM memory. I got a full Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and a new 500Gb 7200-rpm hard drive to put it on, installed it, got all the drivers (chipset and all) from Lenovo for the machine for Windows 7 and the machine works like greased lightning. I am very impressed with the upgrade.

The only thing you really pointed to above that I can see is the ATI display adapter and if you cannot make it work, send it back. Too bad, really. ... JDH

[crazygopedder]

Will Lenovo allow me to return it?

I guess I have to call them Monday and see what can be done...

[jvarszegi]

It can't possibly be a hardware issue, since you don't have any problems in Firefox. Have you tried just reverting to the image that came with the laptop?

[crazygopedder]

You can't "hose" a laptop by clean installing an OS! My IdeaPad S10 came with XP Home preloaded from Lenovo. I clean installed Windows 7 Professional and all the drivers and guess what? It runs flawlessly...aero and all...

I have over 16 years PC repair experience, I know what I'm talking about.

Clearly there is an issue relating to the card underclocking itself when it shouldn't be. And since when is Firefox the standard software for testing hardware? I merely stated that with a YouTube video open in Firefox (to use system resources), the card runs full speed. Other processes can also make the graphics card clock up to full speed.

I absolutely love the machine (really, I do...the build quality is top notch, the size is perfect, the keyboard is awesome, etc etc) but if the graphics card won't function properly I have to return it.

By the way, I just spoke with support, and the tech recommended I return the machine, and said I would be able to within 20 days or something by calling sales. I'll be calling them Monday.

Bottom line: the issue is not "me" making the driver work. The driver installs fine and all features seem to function fine in every OS I've tried. The issue is that the card doesn't function the way I expect it to. Maybe it's not a bug at all, maybe it's done to save power/not overheat or something like that. I don't really care, it's unacceptable (to me anyway).

I wouldn't have posted on these forums if I hadn't gone through my own troubleshooting checklist already. I think my initial question was pretty clear, I wanted to see if someone who has X100e with the Lenovo preload on it had the same issue, if they did not, then Lenovo has integrated some sort of fix into the image. That's pretty much been ruled out already though since I've now installed Windows 7 Professional 32-bit, 64-bit and now even Ubuntu 9.10 64-bit (with the proprietary driver from ATI). Graphics lag (when calling up 3d effects from idle or initiating a screensaver requiring 3d capability) on every one. One would think the odds would be pretty low of replicating the issue on 3 different operating systems without the low-level power management implementation for the graphics card being forked.

Also, I removed the recovery partition because I like to make my own images, after clean installing. I also like getting the space back.

I'm not the "average" computer user, far from it.

*sigh*

[jvarszegi]

Okay, sorry if I came off a little harsh, it was not my intention. I see what you mean too-- it's not a well-known machine yet, so you have to assess whether these issues belong to the whole model line right now, and that's what makes you want to return it to be safe. I will test mine when I get it (it is coming with the Lenovo-loaded Win7Pro) and see if it has similar issues.

[Jason404]

Yes, I would like to see some confirmation of whether or not this occurs in the factory pre-installed image. If it does not, it would be great if somebody with the required skills can find the shim that Lenovo is using.

I plan to buy an X100e as soon as the dual-core Neo or Turion version is available (although I'll get a single-core if the battery life is substantially shorter).

[laughingtonto]

Dual core Neo or Turion is also what I'm waiting on.

-Todd

[crazygopedder]

It's all good. It was my fault anyway being so frustrated and maybe not initially saying I'd tried everything. I'm always weary of buying a brand new machine (of course), but it looked so awesome, and it's a ThinkPad! For the price I couldn't pass it up.

It will be on its way back to Lenovo tomorrow though. BUT, I went ahead and ordered an X200s. I think long term the price difference will be forgotten. I think the real lesson here is that ThinkPads due for a refresh generally have better pricing, better spec, more bugs worked out, and more coupon offers.

The X100e will probably be a great machine (and cheaper and with dual-core) after a few revisions. Indeed, I do want to just return it to be safe. The X200s I ordered is WAY more machine for the money, and since the price difference between it and the X200 was $10 I figured what the heck. At the very least I would have had to buy the recovery DVDs [for the X100e] if the fix is integrated into the factory installed image and an external optical drive. But honestly, I don't think Lenovo (or ATI) considers this a bug. I think this may well be the way the card runs.

The machine did get quite hot running at max performance, and I do believe if you left the thing on your lap or a bed or something, with the graphics card constantly clocked up and the CPU at max speed, I imagine it would run for an hour or thermal shutdown. I read in one forum where someone described taking a window and moving it around until it moved at normal speed. This actually does happen if you just keep Win + Alt held down. At some point the card kicks into gear and it runs Flip3d full speed. Also, although HD video was smooth, more investigation with the UT2004 demo revealed the same problem as the screensaver and 3d desktop. Hilarious to watch, but ridiculous to use. I think that was the kicker, my SCREENSAVER lagged, on 3 different OSs. I mean, come on. I don't think the AMD/ATI combo works too well right now. I'd advise waiting a couple revisions. Again, a case of "how bad can it be?" and "omg brand new cheap ThinkPad that's ultraportable, must have!".

edit: sorry what I wrote above may have not made sense, I meant to specify the recovery disks for the X100e
Anyway, this is what I got instead:

Code: Select all

 Quantity  	 Part No.  	 Description     	 Est. Ship Date  	 Item Price  	 Line Total 
 1  	 7465CT   	CONFIGURED SYSTEM 
	03/08/10 	  	 
  	      44C7625   	SBB I.C2DPSU9400(1.4GHZ3MB L2 	  	  	  	 
  	      45M3091   	VBB GENUWIN7PROFES.32 	  	  	  	 
  	      45M3027   	SBB 12.1WXGA2X3ULTCONN.IIANT. 	  	  	  	 
  	      42X6308   	VBB 3GBPC3-8500 1067MHZ2DIMM 	  	  	  	 
  	      44C5216   	SBB KEYBOARD US ENGLISH 	  	  	  	 
  	      43Y5868   	SBB TRACKPOINT 	  	  	  	 
  	      43Y5879   	SBB 250 GB HDD, 5400RPM 	  	  	  	 
  	      44C5184   	VBB SD CARD READER 	  	  	  	 
  	      44C8733   	SBB THINKPAD B/G/N 	  	  	  	 
  	      44C5196   	SBB THINKPADX200SER.6CELLENH. 	  	  	  	 
  	      41W1787   	SBB CPK NORTH AMERICA 	  	  	  	 
  	      45M4162   	SBB LANG PK US ENGLISH 	  	  	  	 
 1  	 51J0476   	THINKPAD 12W CASE SLEEVE 
	03/08/10 	   	 
 Status: In process  More info

Yea, it was almost twice as much as the X100e, but the SU9400 is only 10w TDP! The MV-40 (in the X100e) is 15! My T500's P8700 is only 25!

Something to think about...the X100e may not be the deal it seems to be right now...better to wait a bit.

[jvarszegi]

The thing I don't understand is that I've read numbers of 13W for the MV-40 in power-saving mode, which just can't be right seeing as how it's running at half speed (can it?). But for now, I went with the X100e due to cost. If I wanted to spend more, I would certainly have gotten an X200. I will just have to put up with the 4-hour battery until my cash flow situation improves, at which time it'll go to my four-year-old or be put to some other use.

But for $600 I got a decent enough machine, with Win7 Pro, 2 GB of RAM, and 3 years of onsite service. Still pretty expensive, and I was a hair away from getting an Acer instead, but I've just had such good luck with Thinkpads (and the service) that I couldn't steer clear of the X100e. And I'm sure that's what Lenovo is banking on.

As has been said elsewhere, Lenovo could certainly have put a better chip in the X100e. But this would have increased the actual cost, and made the X100e into an X200 competitor, something they clearly wouldn't want to do for business reasons. It would also have gone a bit against the business reason for the X100e: it was built to be the lowest price enterprise class Lenovo laptop, priced just enough within reach of the netbook-buying crowd to tempt them. And it seems to be a clever plan. The X100e is not meant to be an X200; it's meant to be an un-netbook.

And I guess the plan is also working in your case! The X100e leaves enough wanting in terms of performance to tempt the right customer to take the next step up. So the X100e is a good buy, and the incremental expense to upgrade to the X200 also makes it a good buy considering the better feature set.

[jvarszegi]

I was able to configure an X200s with Win7 Pro, 3 GB of RAM, a 160 GB 7200 RPM drive, and 3 years of onsite support for $1,042.20 using coupon USP0218X. That seems like a very good deal, and I would definitely jump at it if I had an extra $400 to spend. It seems one could easily configure a base X200 with 3 years of onsite support for under $1,000, also a very good deal.

[Jason404]

I don't like the very thick screen bezel on the X200(s). Hopefully the X201 will not have that, and will have a larger screen to fit the lid instead. I also hope the LED backlit high resolution screen option will be cheaper as well, as they are becoming standard on high-end laptops.

[visionviper]

It will be interesting to see if the new one you get suffers from the same problem.