14.1" T61 mainboard in 14.1" T60?

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disturbedsaint · #1 Post by **disturbedsaint** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:10 am

Hi all, does anybody know if a 14."1 T61 mainboard would fit in a 14.1" T60?
All the info available seems to be about upgrading the 15.4" T60(p).

Apart from the mainboard would I run into any other issues (Cardbus/Expesscard slot maybe?)

#2 Post by **richk** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:01 pm

I assume you are talking about the 4:3 T61, which is uncommon. The widescreen 14.1" T61 simply won't fit. I happen to have both boards next to me. The T61 is waiting to be put away, and the T60p is waiting to be fixed. The PC Card slot is entirely different. The T60 has an extra hole, to attach the frame at another point. The t60 has an IR pickup in the corner. I don't have a T61 4:3 frame or case around so I cannot compare.

I think you would be better off selling your T60 and buying a T61

#3 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:42 pm

richk wrote:I think you would be better off selling your T60 and buying a T61

All depends on what the purpose is. Is it an upgrade to get a performance boost? Particular features missing from the T60? Is it to fix a malfunctioning board?

disturbedsaint · #4 Post by **disturbedsaint** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:15 pm

It is indeed about a 4:3 T60/T61, I forgot to mention that, sorry.

I knew the widescreen planars are different to the 4:3 ones, so those are indeed not an option.

@dr_st, which boards do you have? a T60 and T61 4:3 board?

So basically the expresscard/cardbus stuf won't work (probably because of the added modularity in the T61 (expresscard or smartcard or cardreader, or were those last 2 just expresscard devices?))?

Aware that the T61 has no IR.

Reasons are
- I don't need the ATI radeon x1400 in my T60 (and the FireGL V5200 in my T60p) and want to go integrated
- I would like to upgrade to a Penryn CPU
- I don't want a lower res screen (all widescreen variants are out)/want to keep the high-res screen (1400x1050, maybe upgrade to 1600x1200)

Finding a T61 with all of these items appears to be quiet difficult, that's why I was interested in upgrading my T60.

Suggestions are welcome!

#5 Post by **richk** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:15 pm

When I responded the first time, I just happened to have 2 boards on my desk. The ones I had with me at the time were a T60p (fireGL) and a T61 nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M. (I also have an integrated 4:3 T61) The motherboard connnector that the slots plug into was different. If you had the correct slot assembly, I don't know if it would fit into the case. I've not been able to get a UXGA screen to work on T60 with iintegrated graphics. I don't know about T61. 1400X1050 is fine.

Very few T61 boards support Penryn. I have seen a lot of boards and I have not seen any 4:3, but I know they exist.

I assume you know they didn't make a 15" 4:3 T61. (I don't know if you need 14" or 15") I didn't try to mount T61 4:3 into 14" T60 magnesium frame. If it works, I assume a T60 interposer card would work fine to give you 15". The issues would be mounting holes and card slot assembly. I also don't know about the fan. T60 and T61 fans are different. Frame mounting is different.

disturbedsaint · #6 Post by **disturbedsaint** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:14 am

richk wrote:When I responded the first time, I just happened to have 2 boards on my desk. The ones I had with me at the time were a T60p (fireGL) and a T61 nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M. (I also have an integrated 4:3 T61) The motherboard connnector that the slots plug into was different. If you had the correct slot assembly, I don't know if it would fit into the case. I've not been able to get a UXGA screen to work on T60 with iintegrated graphics. I don't know about T61. 1400X1050 is fine.

Thanks for your help!

I guess going with a T61 is the better/cleaner way, I would like to keep my expresscard slot in working order and I don't expect to be able to buy and expresscard slot that easily, and mounting holes not lining up sucks as well.
What kind of UXGA screen did you try?
I don't mind to stay with 1400x1050, but UXGA would be nice.

Very few T61 boards support Penryn. I have seen a lot of boards and I have not seen any 4:3, but I know they exist.

It should be all T61 from about april 2008 onward. But there aren't many for sale, this is the main reason I was looking for an upgrade to my T60, the mainboards can be had more easily than a complete T61.

I assume you know they didn't make a 15" 4:3 T61. (I don't know if you need 14" or 15") I didn't try to mount T61 4:3 into 14" T60 magnesium frame. If it works, I assume a T60 interposer card would work fine to give you 15". The issues would be mounting holes and card slot assembly. I also don't know about the fan. T60 and T61 fans are different. Frame mounting is different.

If I'd have to switch the fans as well (I know they are different, just don't know if they are interchangeable) I guess it's definitely easier to get a complete T61.
I'm looking for a 14.1" T61 btw.

portsample · #7 Post by **portsample** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:28 am

Hi,
I've got a T61 and a T60 14.1 in front of me.

The cases on these machines are significantly different in size and overall casting.
Overall the T61 is about 3/16" thicker than the T60 with both the screen and the lower unit appearing to be thicker, here are several pictures:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk15 ... maller.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk15 ... ooning.jpg

Notice also that vent and speaker hole configuration is also significantly different AND the hinges on the T61 are beefier.

I hope this helps. If you want any other detail comparisons, let me know. Good luck.

#8 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:26 am

Nice comparison pics.

Indeed the lid is thicker, because the T61 has a rollcage inside it, which is not present in the T60 (both have rollcages in the base).

The base unit seems the same thickness to me, at least in the pictures. Maybe I'm missing something?

There are minor differences in the base, some of which you mentioned, but overall, I think they should be compatible. People have transplanted T61 4:3 mobos into T60s before. There are threads here discussing it. While not a 100% plug-n-play, it is possible with some minor tweaks.

Regarding hinges - yeah, they look beefier, but ironically it does not make them so. I've seen T61s with such bad screen wobble after only 1-1.5 years, which I haven't seen on any, significantly older T60/T4x.

And actually the only Thinkpads I've witnessed with no screen wobble at all, even after extensive use, are the older X3x/T30 models which have very thin hinges. Go figure.

Apparently - the screen lids are interchangeable (see this thread), so if one wants a T60 with a rollcage in the lid, or a T61 with a symmetric screen bezel, it should be attainable.

disturbedsaint · #9 Post by **disturbedsaint** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:59 pm

portsample, thanks for your comparison pics!

In the last pic the lid-thickness doesn't seem that significant, though in the first pics it seems like is quiet significant.

I guess the easy way is just getting a T61 (or T400, though that get me into low(er)-res widescreen territory which I was hoping to avoid) instead of frankesteining one together.
It's probably only worth the trouble when upgrading an IPS notebook.

portsample · #10 Post by **portsample** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:37 am

I really think that the base on the T61 is just a tiny bit thicker that the T60, like to the tune of 0.2 - 0.5mm. The battery in my electronic calipers is dead...I'll get a new one and check next week.

I was very surprised at the differences that I found between the T60 and T61. I have to confess that I started with the expectation that I was going to find evidence of cost cutting and poorer quality overall in the T61. I've been a BIG fan of the IBM Thinkpad since the 760 models and have lamented the loss of IBM as my laptop provider. However, all of the differences that I found were clear improvements from my perspective (!). Not only better ventilation and the addition of the "rollcage" to the lid, but in the T60 the port labels (the little descriptive icons) are printed on the case, in the T61 they are cast into the case. I've checked my T20, T30 and T42 and it seems as if the older machines had all embossed icons, with printed icons added to some of the ports in the later machines.

A small detail, I know, but I tend to keep my machines for several years and often end up with scuffed off labels. Hopefully, Lenovo is engineering Thinkpads to last for several years of use/abuse, and not just until the next Christmas season. I have not had a chance to pull the machine apart yet, but will likely do a processor upgrade at some point. I upgraded the T60 processor to the fastest available for that socket w/no problem.

FWIW- T61 bases are often for sale cheap ($4) on the 'bay. If you are REALLY, REALLY serious about building a T60.5 out of the ashes of you old machine you might consider one of these. In addition, there are T6x aficionados on the Lenovo T60 form that have posted extensively about component swapping: you may want to check there for ideas as well.

Good luck.

#11 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:14 am

portsample wrote:I was very surprised at the differences that I found between the T60 and T61. I have to confess that I started with the expectation that I was going to find evidence of cost cutting and poorer quality overall in the T61. I've been a BIG fan of the IBM Thinkpad since the 760 models and have lamented the loss of IBM as my laptop provider. However, all of the differences that I found were clear improvements from my perspective (!).

I guess it does depend on perspective. But I agree with you that I have not seen any indications on the T61 which would indicate reducing sturdiness to lower costs. The bottom plastics are the same as I can see, and the magnesium rollcage in the lid of the T61 probably does a lot more to protect the screen that the magnesium composite in the top cover as was on the T60. It is also claimed that with the introduction of the dual rollcages, the clamshell design of the lid (which adds strength to the case when it is closed) is also no longer necessary, which is why it was reduced and then removed altogether on newer models.

There are other things, where you could claim the T61 to be inferior, but these are mostly very minor. E.g. the loss of the stereo mix recording option, the loss of the embedded controller for the volume keys (these are now software only). The only thing that might be major is the hinges, which, based on my experience with several different units of each kind, become much more wobbly over time on the T61. I must say, however, that my experience in this area is limited to 14" widescreen units.

My major dislike of the T61, is how ugly it looks with the asymmetric screen bezel. Again, the widescreens are worse in this aspect than standard screen. The 14" wide model is particularly annoying, with a very thick bezel which increases its footprint, and the fact that the only battery that sits plush is the measly 4-cell. So, for a given battery size, you get a laptop that is wider, deeper, thicker, and heavier than the corresponding 14" standard screen.

However, I don't view any of the above as signs of cost-cutting or bad engineering. Merely bad design (which to some may not matter at all). This trend unfortunately continued with the T400, but looks like it might finally stop with the T410.

portsample wrote:Not only better ventilation

This was indeed a problem with some of the T60, although to be fair, probably only the T60p with high-end GPUs had it bad enough to actually cause overheating. But it's good that they improved it on the T61.

portsample wrote:but in the T60 the port labels (the little descriptive icons) are printed on the case, in the T61 they are cast into the case

This actually depends on the T60. Some of them have cast (engraved) icons. Both of mine do. I think that Lenovo just had several different sets of plastic for the T60, and for T61 they all have engraved icons.

Kamika007z · #12 Post by **Kamika007z** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:43 am

Just to put all doubt aside, I was able to successfully modify my T61p's 4:3 LCD to be just that of the T60's. You can even take the T60's LCD top off and install it on the T61 just fine.

What I did was:
- Removed LCD from casing
- Used a T60's LCD casing
- Replaced LCD cable with a T60's as well as the hinges
- Relocated white u:fl connector and fitted it into the smaller T60 bezel
- Also replaced main casing's top bezel (the bezel that goes around the keyboard) so that there isn't a gap anymore on the left side anymore where the hinge was larger.

It can be a bit expensive, but it can be done. It all fits just fine.

Hope this helps!

tpdude4 · #13 Post by **tpdude4** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:52 am

I realize this is an old thread, but I don't see a clear answer to the OP's question (see subject line). I recently acquired a 14.1" T60 and would like to know if this mod is possible. To repeat/rephrase for clarity:
Besides the traditional way to build a T60 frankenpad (14.1" 4:3 T61 motherboard --> 15" 4:3 T60 frame etc.), is it possible to use the 4:3 T61 board in the 14.1" T60?

rumbero · #14 Post by **rumbero** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:54 am

tpdude4 wrote:Besides the traditional way to build a T60 frankenpad (14.1" 4:3 T61 motherboard --> 15" 4:3 T60 frame etc.), is it possible to use the 4:3 T61 board in the 14.1" T60?

Like lots of other people, i already did the swap. But instead of swapping the board, i simply replaced the display unit of the T61 with one from a T60.

The end result is basically the same, but far less hassle than modifying the T60 roll cage. Anything else is just a waste of time and effort with no added benefit, IMHO.

tpdude4 · #15 Post by **tpdude4** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:56 pm

Ok, but as I mentioned I'm only interested in doing the board swap (T61 into 14" T60) -- reason is that I don't have a full T61 machine, just the board. Your answer (rumbero) seems to imply that this is possible but involves some hassle. That's fine since I've already built some typical frankenpads (14" T61 board into 15" T60), and that involves minor frame mods. So maybe to rephrase (addressed to anyone reading): Compared to the typical frankenpad build, how much more difficult is it to replace the board of a 14" T60 with a 14" 4:3 T61 board?

fatpolomanjr · #16 Post by **fatpolomanjr** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:22 pm

I was thinking about what rumbero said, and it really is the easiest and best option. That was what I did for my first T60/61. However it might be harder to get a 4:3 T61 base to do the swap in the first place. Especially one with a good gpu like with what you can find and buy on these forums (NOS, motherboard only).

brchan · #17 Post by **brchan** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:42 pm

I have tried this out of curiosity. There is only one spot that you need to modify IIRC. The screw post at the modem board has to be filed/dremeled, and then the board should fit. Unlike 14.1" motherboards -> 15" T60 frames, you should not need to remove actual sections of the frame. The result is less keyboard flex on the right side of the laptop since there are no holes drilled in the T60 ultrabay frame.

tpdude4 · #18 Post by **tpdude4** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:08 pm

Thanks very much brchan, that encourages me to try it. The 14.1" T60 I just got is in excellent condition with a like-new SXGA+ screen, and I already have a couple 15" T601f's so really wanted to add this to my collection. Fingers crossed...

Peak2Peak · #19 Post by **Peak2Peak** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:53 pm

If you do try it (be it successful or not) - please be so kind as to post some pix etc - thanks

tpdude4 · #20 Post by **tpdude4** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:41 pm

Finally got around to doing this recently and it worked like a charm.

Turns out there are only 2 required mods, and they're simply the same as for a more common 15" frankenpad (the 2 frame mods illustrated here, from a forum post a while back: http://home.concepts.nl/~pc125480/t61_m ... 0_reds.jpg). Very glad that I now have a third, more mobile T601f! (The difference in mobility/weight isn't huge but it's noticeable, esp. with a 6-cell vs. 9-cell battery.)

Peak2Peak · #21 Post by **Peak2Peak** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:57 pm

tpdude4 - Very good to know this is possible with the same mod's as per the 15.0" Frankie's -

micrex22 · #22 Post by **micrex22** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:54 pm

I actually already made a post about this awhile back:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=120121

Just so misinformation doesn't propigate, it's not a drop-in replacement, but the magnesium chassis only needs a few chunks removed.

I also installed a W500 heatsink since (to be honest) it runs a lot better than any of the T60/T61 variants.
First you need to sand the heatblock:
http://i.imgur.com/5IzDHan.jpg
And then the T60 bracket pops on top with no problems:
http://i.imgur.com/KFXfD7k.jpg

And I installed a 1600x1200 display which is quite nice on 14.1".

And again, sure the T60 wasn't around for lenovo's buzzword 'rollcage', but the top lid is an un-preforated magnesium slab. The majority of all traditional IBM portables are constructed from magnesium, including the WorkPad z50.

ilakast · #23 Post by **ilakast** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:38 am

micrex22 wrote:And I installed a 1600x1200 display which is quite nice on 14.1".

Care to elaborate on that? Model? Plug n play?

brchan · #24 Post by **brchan** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:33 pm

ilakast wrote:
micrex22 wrote:And I installed a 1600x1200 display which is quite nice on 14.1".
Care to elaborate on that? Model? Plug n play?

He is probably referring to this: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=73465

The 14.1" SHARP UXGA displays are usually dim and have horrible viewing angles. However, you do get many more pixels.

micrex22 · #25 Post by **micrex22** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:56 pm

brchan wrote:
ilakast wrote:
Care to elaborate on that? Model? Plug n play?
He is probably referring to this: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=73465

The 14.1" SHARP UXGA displays are usually dim and have horrible viewing angles. However, you do get many more pixels.

Have you actually used one?

brchan · #26 Post by **brchan** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:19 pm

No, but this is what other people have reported: usually dimmer or the same brightness at best. Certainly hope to do this with an LED mod at some point, though.

micrex22 · #27 Post by **micrex22** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:13 pm

brchan wrote:No, but this is what other people have reported: usually dimmer or the same brightness at best. Certainly hope to do this with an LED mod at some point, though.

It's not any dimmer than the Philips displays, I would rate it as the same. It *does* have a slightly poorer top-down viewing angle (stuff can get washed out). However, this is only when viewing it from an extreme angle at the top (I have a habit of doing this for whatever reason).

sentabrina · #28 Post by **sentabrina** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:23 pm

Look what I found guys.

http://funkyimg.com/i/29Xqv.jpg
http://funkyimg.com/i/29Xqw.jpg
http://funkyimg.com/i/29Xqx.jpg

This should be an ultimate 14.1'' motherboard from T61p with Nvidia chip made in december 2008.
As far as I know, all the Nvidia chips before August 2008 are faulty, this should be THE ONE

I prepared X9000 C2D and 42X4685 heatsink to build in.
Later will upgrade to 8GB RAM

My goal is to build an ultimate portable T601f and guard the IBM logo

Hope it will work

MOD edit: pictures are WAY too big, please read and abide by the Forum Rules, especially Section 5
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14339

QWERTY Andreas · #29 Post by **QWERTY Andreas** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:48 am

sentabrina wrote:Look what I found guys.

http://funkyimg.com/i/29Xqv.jpg
http://funkyimg.com/i/29Xqw.jpg
http://funkyimg.com/i/29Xqx.jpg

This should be an ultimate 14.1'' motherboard from T61p with Nvidia chip made in december 2008.
As far as I know, all the Nvidia chips before August 2008 are faulty, this should be THE ONE

I prepared X9000 C2D and 42X4685 heatsink to build in.
Later will upgrade to 8GB RAM

My goal is to build an ultimate portable T601f and guard the IBM logo
Hope it will work

MOD edit: pictures are WAY too big, please read and abide by the Forum Rules, especially Section 5
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14339

As far as i know its a NVS140m board, and NOT Fx570m board?

Anyway: One can also retrofit a 15.4" widescreen mobo into the 14" T60. It looses the ultrabay but double the vRAM. And it is possible to have 1 HDD and 1 SSD.

So if you want to see the fastest T601F currently on this planet (albeit only 6GB RAM), look in my signature - its a 14"

#30 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:28 am

Nope, sentabrina is superlucky here with a real FX570M!
What we don't know yet: with how much VRAM (128MB/256MB/512MB).

nVidia chips with
G84-975-A2 \
G84-950-A2 are FX570M (for T61p)
G84-951-A2 /

nVidia chips with
G86-740-A2 are NVS140M (for T61)
G86-741-A2 /

Below are the most commonly known 14.1" motherboard P/N or FRU
Nvidia NVS140 ---- Nvidia Quadro FX 570M
42W7649 Merom -- 42W7650 Merom
43Y9045 -Merom -- 43Y9046 Merom
42W7873 Penryn -- 42W7874 Penryn (also found: 42X5033 / 42X7339 refurb?)
44C3924 -Penryn -- 44C3926 Penryn (new GPUs)

And there are also mobos with Intel GM965:
42W7648 Merom \
42W3807 Merom T61 14.1"
42W7872 Penryn /

42W7822 Penryn R61 15" (mostly in Europe and S-Asia)
44C3810 Penryn /

14.1" T61 mainboard in 14.1" T60?

14.1" T61 mainboard in 14.1" T60?

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