T41P hangs

[izzykatz]

Hi,
I have this T41P with new XP installation. It runs on AC adapter only thru docking station.
It hangs from time to time, I canot relate it to anything.
After it hangs I shut it down with on off button and it won't restart. It restarts only after I disconnect from AC adapter and reconnect.
I tried to disable some processes and I am now waiting to see the results.
Any ideas where to look? what to do? Is it hardware or SW?

Thanks

Izzy

[Neil]

Welcome to the forum Izzy!

My guess would be hardware. Specifically the SouthBridge chip, but maybe the GPU chip has something to do with it also. Those controller chip issue can cause all sorts of havoc. Search this forum for SouthBridge issues in the T4x sub forum and you'll see why I thinking this way.

[izzykatz]

Hello Neil,
I read one long thread about GPU. This is too technucal for me. I understand it but I am not able to replace a mobo (took me some time to guess it is mother board, isn't it?). Or better say - afraid of starting it.
Any easy fix for such a problem? can it be SW jam? disable un-needed processes?

Izzy

[Neil]

It's very unlikely that software is the problem.... Something you could do, that is not a fix, but rather more of an experiment to identify a SouthBridge issue is remove the keyboard, palm rest and mini PCI wifi card. Then, put a small piece of foam rubber, or something similar, on top of the SouthBridge chip, replace the wifi card, put another piece of foam on top of the wifi card, put the palm rest and keyboard back. That foam will apply some pressure to the chip and if things work OK now, it confirms that the chip is comming loose.

It's not a fix, but you might be able to continue using the macine this way for quite some time.

Another thing to try, remove the battery completely and see how it performs with ony the AC adapter connected. Sometimes flakey batteries can cause problems. However, I'm writing on a R51 right now, that has a power issue that is certainly motherboard related. It will spontaneously reboot when on battery power, but runs forever when on AC!? And recently it's started this thing where it won't wake from suspend on either battery or with AC connected, unless I remove AC and hit the Fn key as soon as I reconnect AC. Weird!

[izzykatz]

The problem occurs rarely so I cannot "cut and try" fast.
I prefer to start with the easy stuff
first I disabled any process which is not necessary and I l let it run. I also run without battery but I think it hanged once.
I do not see myself tearing it apart, how complicated is it?

[RealBlackStuff]

Illustrated mobo replacement: http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Repa ... ard/2919/1
Valid for all T40/T41/T42/R50/R51 models, and basically also T43/R52

[Neil]

Not complicated at all, if you can use a small screwdriver and follow instructions.

Just download the hardware maintenance manual:

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail. ... MIGR-46464

[izzykatz]

Hello Neil,
I decided to go with your advice and apply pressure on the southbridge chip.
Just before I do it - how much are you sure with the diagnosis? or maybe another idea?
Also - what is the mechanism that makes the chip loose? temperature?
Do you have any pictures that describe the remove and reinstall?
How can I recognize the chip?

Izzy

[RealBlackStuff]

SB is the big Intel chip under the wifi card.
It becoming loose is due to heat/cold cycles (heat when running, cold when off).
Introduction of RoHS compliant leadfree solder started it, they didn't know how to do things properly in those days.

[Neil]

Not sure of the diagnosis at all...it's just an educated guess. RealBlackStuff has much more experience than I with these things, and it seems he agrees.

[RealBlackStuff]

Either find someone with professional infrared equipment and have the SB chip reballed, or find another mobo.

[izzykatz]

Thank you both, you made me desparate....
I'll try the rubber foam, just for fun, because as you say it is not a fix. Here they do not reball but replace the mobo. It is aboute $250-300. Seems too much for old machine. What is the current equivalent fot T41P?

Izzy

[RealBlackStuff]

T60/T60p would probably be the cheapest. (most are 4:3 screen (14.1" and 15"), some are 15.4" widescreen)
Followed by any T61 with Intel graphics (NOT nVidia!). (some 4:3 in 14.1", the rest is virtually all widescreen)
Followed by T400 and/or T500 series. (all widescreen)

[poshgeordie]

Go to my Signature and download the How To list. In there is a link to a pictorial diagram showing the screws and their locations.

Also as someone who repairs these laptops it seems you may have an unsoldered Southbridge chip.

[izzykatz]

I am looking for a way to verify the failure.
Is there a connection between the SB problem and the way I use the laptop? like - if it is screen saver only and nothing else running or - running office excel word and ppt altogether? I expect that if it is a soldering problem then it is related to the chip temperature which is related to computing load.
I ask it because I powered it on in the morning and it hanged after few minutes, then I shut all programs except for the screen saver and it works 3 hours ok.
I am still confused and try to be sure that it is this problem (which almost impossible to repair) because the conclusion is to buy a new laptop.
Izzy