Could we kickstart fund a 4:3 machine

[Utwig]

As I've seen some people here are building 4:3 T61 frankenpads which is what I'd really like to have only with EPT and 16GB RAM.

With the advent of 3D printers, could we kicstart fund real black stuff proper notebooks.

With advent of 3D printers manufacturing parts in small numbers shouldn't be hard and we could use most thinkpad service parts for starters.

It should be be at first a single UXGA 15 Flexview notebook with Nehalem CPU and T410 keyboard layout with 2-3 year refreshes.

The only problem would be case and monitor cable. the rest can be used off the shelf.

[ibm350]

Sad isn't it.

Personally, I'd rather a high resolution 13inch with modern hardware - oh look, google's almost got it right: https://play.google.com/store/devices/d ... pixel_wifi

I'm missing only one thing, that keeps me stuck on my x61 - a trackpoint.

which makes me think about just buying old thinkpad keyboards and making a usb (or bluetooth?) and conversion circuit/code. The usb-thinkpad keyboard's circuit board is quite large - so something much smaller is needed.

given surface mount chips, I wonder.

Anyone know of existing notebooks that cover most of our desires and only need a small modification?

Sven

[ajkula66]

The only problem would be case and monitor cable. the rest can be used off the shelf.

Solve the case/frame setting, and you're golden. Everything else is a non-issue.

[twistero]

Where do you plan to get motherboards? Even designing one is probably out of reach of any individual, let alone manufacturing.
How would you know that newer generation of notebook GPUs still support the signalling standard used in vintage UXGA LCD panels?
Regarding case and frame, how would you design them to be strong and reliable, and how do you test them?
Where do you get FCC certification and other regulatory crap?

[ajkula66]

Where do you plan to get motherboards? Even designing one is probably out of reach of any individual, let alone manufacturing.

No need to manufacture anything. The only question being, what motherboard (X220?T420?Something else?) does one build the frame around.

How would you know that newer generation of notebook GPUs still support the signalling standard used in vintage UXGA LCD panels?

Some research, and some trial and error. Anything that is straight Intel should work with no issues, discrete GPUs will likely be tricky in this respect, especially high-power ones.

Regarding case and frame, how would you design them to be strong and reliable, and how do you test them?

Carving something out of wood wouldn't be too far fetched IMO...

Where do you get FCC certification and other regulatory crap?

Unless one is actually going to market them openly, who cares?

My $0.02 only...

[twistero]

Regarding case and frame, how would you design them to be strong and reliable, and how do you test them?

Carving something out of wood wouldn't be too far fetched IMO...

I would love to see a home-made (or even small-scale production) laptop frame that is lighter than a pound by itself and does not warp when I try to pick it up by a corner with screen open, with a 15-inch panel and Li-Ion battery pack inside.

[RealBlackStuff]

could we kicstart fund real black stuff proper notebooks.

Talkin' about me?

[ajkula66]

I would love to see a home-made (or even small-scale production) laptop frame that is lighter than a pound by itself and does not warp when I try to pick it up by a corner with screen open, with a 15-inch panel and Li-Ion battery pack inside.

In my book, a "lighter than a pound" is really not a requirement. No warping most certainly is.

A proper workstation-class notebook weighs 6-8 pounds nowadays, so not all that much has changed from the A3x/G4x era...heck, most of these machines have AC adapters that would qualify as "blunt instruments" in any court of law if one were to use them in self-defense...

[amyklai]

I'd absolutely pour some money into that kind of project, because watching all modern thinkpads turn into wannabe Macbook Ideapads is frustrating.


But 3D printing a notebook probably won't work - can't see that stuff being sturdy enough to be called a thinkpad.

The most realistic way to do a kickstarter 4:3 would probably be a 2 part upgrade solution for one of the last 4:3 thinkpad series cases (t60 for 15, t61 for 1", x61 for 12"), basically the ultimate frankenpad kit.

Project part #1 would be getting a mainboard with Haswell that could fit in one of the mentioned cases (the 14" t61 mainboard should also fit into 15" t60 and 14" t60 cases, right? Then that would be the logical choice.)

Part #2 would be getting a good modern screen (ideally retina class) funded that's transplantable into one of these cases.

That way we could modernize the last great thinkpad generation and leverage the existing cases, batteries, keyboards, docking stations etc.

Probably still very difficult to get done, but much easier than building the whole thing from the ground up.

[RealBlackStuff]

Haswell is not coming out till May/June 2013 and will probably be unaffordable till the end of the year at least...
http://www.techpowerup.com/178068/Intel ... t-CES.html
Maybe a board from a T4x0 or W4x0?
I have a dead T400 board, I'll see if anything matches with the 15" T60 shell.

[ibm350]

I'd love to know - will an x230 motherboard talk to a t42-t61 14inch 1400x1050 screen?

mostly, are the physical connectors the same?

(I'm not worried about BOIS/SW - thats just code )

worse - I have an old t21 1400x1050 .... but with x220 MB's going for 250-400, i'd like to have a headsup that i'm off the planet

Sven

[ajkula66]

I'd love to know - will an x230 motherboard talk to a t42-t61 14inch 1400x1050 screen?

mostly, are the physical connectors the same?

Most likely not, but that's not a huge issue. Custom LCD cables have been built in the past for various mods so I don't perceive that as being much of a problem.

However, I wouldn't be building a custom machine around *30 series board until someone comes out with a modded BIOS allowing the use of classic keyboards on them...

[Zak]

I've had the thought of building my own in the back of my head for a while. I don't think I'll be content with anything commercially available when my current T61/T60p frankenpad can't keep up anymore.

It's not terribly difficult to make things out of composites like carbon fiber or carbon/kevlar. It would probably take a couple attempts to produce something satisfactory, and doing it without buying equipment is a little labor-intensive. Many Thinkpad models use significant amounts of carbon fiber in their outer shells, though it doesn't have the characteristic appearance due to the use of black resin instead of clear.

[ibm350]

Is any manufacturer still making non-widescreen LCDs?

I get the feeling that the best one can hope for is to canabalise an old thinkpad and/or use old LCD's - they may not have been used, but it'll be a very constantly dwindling supply....

please tell me I'm wrong and point me to where i can buy a 14inch 1400x1050 screen with led backlight

otherwise - isn't the right approach going to be to upgrade frankenpads with even newer motherboards... - like sticking a x220 motherboard into a t-series case with whichever screen you prefer.. (i didn't like the 15inch t42p i had)

Sven

[amyklai]

Panasonic still has 4:3 Toughbooks, so they've got to have a supplier.

[RealBlackStuff]

The T4x0/W4x0 motherboards do not match anywhere in a T60 frame.
If a 15" 4:3 screen with LED-backlight is a must, then we are pretty much limited to the R60/T60 shells.
That is, if we stick with existing parts from IBM/Lenovo.
The inverters from the T4x/R5x series aren't supplying enough power to drive the LCD properly.
Also, the T4x chassis is not very rigid, so that's them out.
And we don't want to go back to 'luggables' like the A31p or G40.

As to (new) 15" 4:3 screens with top specs, there are enough around for the foreseeable future (I have my sources).

[Zak]

Current fullscreen LCDs I know about:

• 13.1" 4:3 1024x768 - Panasonic Toughbook 31
• 10" 4:3 2048x1536 - Apple iPad
• 7.9" 4:3 1024x768 - Apple iPad mini
• 12.85" 3:2 2650x1700 - Google Pixel
• 7.5" 4:3 1200x900 - OLPC XO

[pianowizard]

Current fullscreen LCDs I know about:

• 13.1" 4:3 1024x768 - Panasonic Toughbook 31
• 10" 4:3 2048x1536 - Apple iPad
• 7.9" 4:3 1024x768 - Apple iPad mini
• 12.85" 3:2 2650x1700 - Google Pixel
• 7.5" 4:3 1200x900 - OLPC XO

If you are including 3:2 and slate tablets, then you have overlooked my favorite slate tablet: 9" 3:2 1920x1280 - Barnes & Noble Nook HD+

Speaking of Toughbooks, I learned recently that the last 14.1" 1400x1050 Y Series wasn't the CF-Y8, but the CF-Y9! It's extremely rare, unfortunately.

[Zak]

I didn't know about the Nook. Good to know.

I was just listing devices I'm aware of that are bigger than smartphones and currently in production. I figured it might be a good starting point for anyone wanting to source newly manufactured panels.

[pianowizard]

I was just listing devices I'm aware of that are bigger than smartphones and currently in production.

Don't feel ashamed that you didn't know about the Nook HD+. No one is expected to be omniscient. BTW, the Nook HD+ was released only 3 months ago and it most certainly is currently in production.

[feklee]

As to (new) 15" 4:3 screens with top specs, there are enough around for the foreseeable future (I have my sources).

How bright (nits)?

[Utwig]

I think first course of action should be creating some sort of online presence and a brand.

Then we should help RealBlackStuff's T61p Frankenpads become more known, we should get all Thinkpad communities from Germany, Japan, Korea, ... on-board.

This is a product that already exists.

We should get on-line tech media talking about this and make wider population more aware how widescreen is bad for any machine intended for content creation and reading. Perhaps this is enough already since it will make Lenovo consider continue making classic machines. We should get some web celebrities a la Linus Torvalds Equipped with our products and write fiery tweets about how 16:9 768x1366 sucks.

The first kickstart project would be to hire someone to hack 30-series BIOS to take classic keyboard I think, since we could then at least get newer machines and proper keyboard layouts if not 4:3.

After that we can consider building 15" UXGA modern motherboard machine. If we could base that on 12-14" 30-series with T60 screen on top. You can 3D print titanium prosthetic legs so I think 3D-printing Thinkpads is viable.

I think prospects for this are good since people were able to revive Amiga and BeOS years after their demise and Thinkpad is recent and not yet completely demised.

[ajkula66]

Well, the German community is aware...

http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/152960 ... us-den-USA

There are several folks there who build (non-LED) F'Pads of their own on fairly regular basis AFAIK.

However, tackling a project evolving around a newer planar will take a lot more effort and time...at least the way I see it.

The first step is deciding on what board one would be building around...which would have to come from *20 series, one way or another. Unless I'm missing something...

Decisions, decisions...

[DaKKS]

Fact is, we are probably never getting another T601F since Lenovo has abandoned the "All for one, one for all" policy. Even if you can retrofit a modern board into a 4:3 shell, or create a matching 4:3 shell, you'd be in the same seat five years later. The T/R/X series is probably the most versatile line of notebooks ever created. We're probably not getting that again.

That being said, I wouldn't be against giving it a shot.

[ibm350]

I kind of wonder if there's any point to re-using lenovo motherboards... instead using something like the LEN26A at the bottom of http://www.asus.com/News/iuE8gQ1O2Pgwj9FG (presuming that it has lvds) or the similar motherboard from intel - Intel DQ77KB Thin Mini-ITX MB.

If you're already talking about designing and building your own case:

The only 'real' thinkpad component that maters is the keyboard - the rest can similarly be chosen from the best available.

[FunkyRes]

I don't need 4:3 - 16:10 would be good for me.

I'd love a T410 but with a quad core and 16GB, if I could stuff my T520 into a T410 case I'd be very happy

ThunderBolt is only thing I would add, and that's for docking capabilities, I believe TB is the future of laptop docking.
I'd also get rid of the trackpad, I don't use it. And I'd swap the Dsub-15 VGA connector for a DVI-D or HDMI.

That would be my dream thinkpad.

[Summilux]

However, I wouldn't be building a custom machine around *30 series board until someone comes out with a modded BIOS allowing the use of classic keyboards on them...

Ditto. The x230 BIOS still hasn't been modded to accept x220 keyboards.

That got me thinking. I'm currently typing this post with a Thinkpad USB keyboard.
Now, would there be a possibility to use one of these external keyboards, which are basically the same as the "real" laptop ones, disassemble and connect them to the internal USB port of the mobo (if any)?

That way, the key mapping wouldn't be too much of an issue (the Fn combinations don't seem to work though, not sure if that comes from my setting or if it's a normal behaviour).

[DaKKS]

Ditto. The x230 BIOS still hasn't been modded to accept x220 keyboards.

That got me thinking. I'm currently typing this post with a Thinkpad USB keyboard.
Now, would there be a possibility to use one of these external keyboards, which are basically the same as the "real" laptop ones, disassemble and connect them to the internal USB port of the mobo (if any)?

That way, the key mapping wouldn't be too much of an issue (the Fn combinations don't seem to work though, not sure if that comes from my setting or if it's a normal behaviour).

I've done that before, although not on a Thinkpad, or any other IBM/Lenovo hardware for that matter. I based my build on an HP Elitebook.

It should theoretically be possible on pretty much any motherboard with internal USB. Software shouldn't be a problem either if the bios supports USB keyboard support. A booted system will recognize it regardless.

[Summilux]

I've done that before, although not on a Thinkpad, or any other IBM/Lenovo hardware for that matter. I based my build on an HP Elitebook.

It should theoretically be possible on pretty much any motherboard with internal USB. Software shouldn't be a problem either if the bios supports USB keyboard support. A booted system will recognize it regardless.

Nice to hear that kind of feedback.
How did you deal with the keyboard's cable? Was the trackpoint properly recognised as well?

A bit off-topic:
HP & internal USB... that reminds me of a thread of someone who stuck his RF mouse receiver onto the internal port.
I thought it was both evident and smart.

[DaKKS]

Nice to hear that kind of feedback.
How did you deal with the keyboard's cable? Was the trackpoint properly recognised as well?

As I said, its was not IBM/Lenovo hardware. The motherboard was from a Elitebook 6930p and I used a Panasonic PDRC keyboard, CF-VKBL03AM, i think. The entire rig was custom built. Extremely ruggedized case, SSD's, dell fhd lcd, extendable wifi antenna and a shltload of batteries.

A bit off-topic:
HP & internal USB... that reminds me of a thread of someone who stuck his RF mouse receiver onto the internal port.
I thought it was both evident and smart.

Been there, done that. Smart, but the range is rubbish.