working off SSD, vs ultrabay HDD, vs usb HDD

[allen]

hi,
i'm wondering which drive location would be the best for working on files in photoshop cs6.

i have win xp and PS running on my t60p primary drive, a 7200rpm HDD.
the ultrabay 7200rpm HDD has my working tif files.

i've always heard it's better to work on files that aren't on the same drive as the software.
i also used to hear hear not to work off a usb drive, for slow speed and risk of corrupt files.
it's been maybe 8 years since i've heard this info.

i was wondering how this might change with an SSD drive as the OS / software drive.

would it be better to move working files onto the SSD drive, or work on files on the ultrabay HDD?

and if there's no ultrabay drive, would it be better to work off work off primary SSD drive, or a usb HDD?

any info would be sweet, thanks!

[Cigarguy]

About the only CPU intensive program I use is Photoshop.

My preference is to work off the fastest drive that I have and save the finished work (data) to a slower, but higher capacity, HDD. Then I back up everything in triplicate. Of everything I got, my pictures are the most valuable as they cannot be replaced. All my active Photoshop activity is done on a SSD. The speed gain here is significant.

With the T60p your fastest drive is connected to the internal SATA I interface, the Ultrabay being PATA is probably slower. Use ATTO to benchmark and see for yourself. I would connect the SSD to the main SATA interface and load OS, all programs and use as Photoshop active (scratch) disk. Use the slower Ultrabay as storage. After my Photoshop session I always backup the data pics to a USB key or external HDD.

If you don't have a Ultrabay drive then the SSD will also be the data drive which may necessitate needing a larger SSD. In this scenario, I would definitely backup to an external USB device immediately after a Photoshop session.

On a T61 with 240 GB SSD and a 1 TB HDD in the Ultrabay, my workflow is generally this way:
1) Copy all pictures from camera to a folder on the desktop called "Temp Pics". This temp folder, being on the desktop, is in the SSD.
2) Open Photoshop and pull session pictures from the "Temp Pics" folder.
3) Process Pic
4) Save finished/saved session to the HDD in Ultrabay.
5) Back up HDD in Ultrabay and "Temp Pics" folder to external device.
6) Crack open a beer, wonder why my photography is getting worse, and post on TPF.

I normally work in RAW (25-45 MB) and usually load no more than about 5 RAW files at once on my T61 and no more than 10 on my desktop at home. Looking at maybe getting a 15" T60p for the flexview screen.

[allen]

aha, interesting.
usually my t60p with 4GB (3GB) max RAM, is fine,

but lately loading even a few raw files in bridge cs6 gets slow.
it also gets slow when i have full size film scans from imacon scanner.
i got through them all, but it took patience, and PS crashed a number of times.
zooming to 100% made things slower, as did having any other program open, including explorer windows.

so primary thinkpad drive is faster than ultrabay, even if both are 7200rpm HDDs?
and scratchdisk is on primary?

my t60p is 6yrs old. i'm basically debating upgrading it with a t61 motherboard, win7, 8GB RAM, SSD, and a new old stock flexview, vs a refurbished retina macbook pro (hence the usb drive Q)

i'd miss the mouse buttons, 4:3, and windows os,
but get slimmer, lighter, and brighter.

the flexview is amazing, it'd be hard to go non ips if any ips is avail.
it's not as bright as an led backlit, and i do like working outdoors, if not on PS, on email and business documents.

thanks!

[Cigarguy]

That flexview screen is amazing. I would seriously consider going the Frankenpad method. A T61 will allow you to run 8 GB RAM, takes faster more efficient CPU and SATA II via Middleton's BIOS.

As for the speed difference. Use ATTO to benchmark and see for yourself. The PATA to SATA conversion via adapter in the Ultrabay is not that fast. Appreciate it if you posts your results as I would like to know myself (again contemplating a T60p).

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/17 ... v2.46.html

[allen]

how bout video ram?
128 or 512, compared to a new computer's 1GB.

my scans are 20x30", or 24x24" 300dpi, 1GB w/ layers, in 16bit mode.

currently the redraw time can get slow at 66.7-100% zoom.

[Cigarguy]

Those are big scans. Video RAM would help but I think the bottle neck on a T60p is elsewhere such as HDD, RAM limitation, and CPU. I would look at a desktop solution.

Most of my Photoshopping and intensive work is done on my desktop with 3570K, Nvidia 670 GPU, 32 GB RAM, and 2-27" IPS LCD panels. In terms of performance, no laptop will come close.

At home my Thinkpads serves nothing more than decorations. I have 4 desktops for various functions. However when on the road, which is often, my Thinkpads are my constant companion. For a long time I told myself Thinkpads are too expensive and I can't afford them. Then I stumbled on a T61 with a high res screen in mint condition for $80 about a year ago. Ever since then I've gone through an almost religious conversion and have a stable of 8 TPs. My favourite of those are a high res T400 and X61T with sxga+ flexview. Interestingly enough my T420 have the most "meh" value.

I've only spent about 2 weeks with my X61T but it's slowly becoming my favourite. It is also making me seriously consider, want, and lust for a 15" 4x3 flexview.

[allen]

i'm kind of stuck here, i've been googling and reading forums. this post got long.

i sit on my computer in 4-5 different places in my apt, a few different cafes, and outside in a park(doing non photo work), so i'm not considering a desktop. i'm not really into using an external monitor, probably due to the cramped status of my apt/desk here in brooklyn, ny.

i'm trying to figure out if an sxga+ flexview frankenpad with penryn chip, 256GB SSD, and 8GB RAM, is the best choice for large color accurate photo work, for processing and redraw capabilities.

the only other ips laptop screen i feel worth considering is a retina macbook pro.
refurbished, a comparable rMBP is $875 more, almost double the price of building a new comparable flexview penryn frankenpad (also buying win7, and building from an ebay t60p, i'd want to keep my current t60p for backup)

color accuracy in screens
i publish an independent magazine with decent quality cmyk printing, (most people say specific color accuracy is not important unless you're printing).
i tried to find out the sxga+ flexview's adobeRGB color gamut coverage, while wondering how much it's really going to make a difference. the retina screens don't have the the highest aRGB coverage either.
the flexview kind of looks more like paper, since it's it's matte, has great viewing angles, and isn't that bright, which seems to make sense for print work.
i'm concerned about the aging yellowness, i've gotten by knowing eyes color correct to what you're staring at, but it's not ideal.

file sizes
magazine size scans are fine. large scans for gallery poster size prints though, my t60p with 4(3)GB RAM can get through it, but i've had to close everything and purge the cache repeatedly, saving time is a couple minutes sometimes, and PS CS6 crashed a few times.
i spend more time on spreadsheets and emails than PS and indesign, though when it's PS time, it's important to not drag.
sometimes i have 1-200 12mp RAW files to edit for jobs as well.

frankenpad still sounds pretty comparable to me, but idk if i'm just being a thinkpad fan, wanting to try win7 and have mouse buttons. the keyboard and ultrabay are great too, but less of a priority.

but crashing PS made me skeptical.
i brought my thinkpad to the apple store, put it side by side with a rMBP, and of course it was faster at opening, closing, editing, cropping, and saving my 1GB+ scan files. i wonder if the i7, DDR3 RAM and 1GB video RAM are really the ones making that difference.

does anyone in nyc want to meet at an apple store and test a frankenpad alongside my t60p and rMBP with my scan files?
i would hate to build a frankenpad and find out i was wrong about it's capabilities.

thanks!

[ZaZ]

The extra ram might buy you a little more time, but the T61 is an old war horse too. You'll get a few extra MHz, but a new machine will double the cores. A T61 won't come close to that if you need processing power.

If you want the best notebook screen, that would be the HP EliteBooks 8570w and 8770w with the DreamColor LCD. Plus, they're LED, which means they won't dim/yellow over time. If you don't mind last years models, which you shouldn't because Ivy Bridge isn't much of a bump in the CPU department, the Sandy Bridge models of those notebooks, the 8560w and 8760w, come up in the HP Outlet much more reasonably from time to time. It's considerably less than the retina, though not as slim and trim.

[allen]

thanks,
i wasn't sure anyone would respond.
i feel it's a general consensus around here that lenovo thinkpads are not great,
and that others have considered switching to apple,
i'm curious if anyone that did cares to comment.

about the hp 8570w,
any idea how to tell if a model listed on the outlet has the ips panel?
i've already done more research than i've wanted to, and am still just finding out that most laptops can swap the optical for HDD.
but what's the deal with mSATA? i've barely seen it mentioned?
can you run all of win7 and software off it? and then have 2 HDDs?

any other major differences to expect with HP, coming from t60p?
i'm not so into 16:9, even 16:10 on apples is better being less widescreen,
but maybe this hp would be the best overall, if the ips is that good.

thanks,

[ZaZ]

I consider my X220i to be as good as any ThinkPad I've used and to be the best ultraportable on the market. If you want a workstation with a IPS screen, you'll have to look elswhere. The FHD on the T530/W530 is as good a TN panel as you'll see, but just can't match the DreamColor. The HPs are heavier, more expensive and do not offer Optimus, so in the end, there's no perfect laptop.

I believe HP sells some Elitebooks in the HP Outlet with FHD LCDs that are not the DreamColor, but the DreamColors are noted as having it. You could always call if you want clarification.

The mSATA SSD plugs into a miniPCI slot on the motherboard. Once installed, Windows sees it as another hard drive, which you may install the OS if you like. Then you can keep the larger platter drive in the main bay for storage where speed is not as important. I have this setup in my X220i. It's quite slick.

Like I said there's no perfect laptop, but if you want the best screen, the HP has ti.

[allen]

thanks,

i take it msata isn't quite as fast as main bay?

i still have to cal hp outlet, but it looks like it might not be available from there.
one bay and datavision, prices are $2000-$2500.

how bout the dell m4600?

[ZaZ]

The mSATA connector is a SATA II connector because the Intel chipset only allows for two SATA III connections and Lenovo chose to use them elsewhere. This will be fixed when Haswell is released, which offers four SATA III connectors. Having said that, it's very unlikely you'd notice a difference between SATA II or III. The benefit of a SSD is the latency, how fast data can be found and read. This won't change when going from SATA I to II to III. The throughput, how much data can pass through the controller in a given moment in time and is often used as a benchmark for SSD performance, has little effect in day to day usage because typical usage like Office, Media and Internet don't put much a load on the controller. All SSDs are fast in this sense. My R60e seems just as fast as my X220i, though it is considerably older.

There are some DreamColor equipepd Elitebooks in the HP Outlet right now starting at about $1,850. I believe all HP refurbed notebooks come with a one year warranty, which can be upgraded for a fee of course.

I don't know much about the Dells, other than they're Dell business notebooks, which tend to be well built and get good service. You might want to poke around the Dell forum at NBR if you need some info.

[allen]

thanks, still haven't called hp outlet,
but i felt the topic had changed from my original post,
so i made a post about screen accuracy here, for those that may be looking for similar answers:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=109163

thanks,