Replacement for x30

[dlbeaty]

I am not sure where to post this. I thought maybe some of you might have experience with several generations of the x series. I have been researching later models, but am not sure of which ones would be close in build quality and function that are similar to what I have now.

My system has held up very well for many years, but cannot view netflix and youtube videos very well now. I have considered the x61 and x200, used, and lenovo has an x131e for under $300 refurbished. Any recommendations?

The x30-32 series had a nice feature where the dock fit under it for additional HD's or optical drives. I know I can research those options myself, but as far as positive/negative experiences with the various models, I would appreciate hearing about issues I might overlook.

Dan

[rkawakami]

Based on my experience (see .sig below) ....

#1: Forget about the X40 series .
#2: X60/X61 still is pretty useful. Some people complain about excessive heat on the palmrest but swapping out the factory WiFi card for something else usually lowers the temperature. If I had to choose between the two, the X61 gets the nod due to maximum memory capability (with appropriate OS) of 8GB and the availability of the Middleton BIOS upgrade (SATA II mode, removal of WiFi whitelist and some other stuff). X6 UltraBase available for optical drive, USB, video and ethernet ports, etc.; same as on the X3 base. One nice feature that I use a lot is the built-in SD card reader; very nice for transferring photos off my camera's memory card. An 8-cell battery is available for 4+ hours of typical usage but it sticks out the back. If you're going to be using that type of battery with the UltraBase, be aware that some aftermarket batteries will NOT fit into the UltraBase.
#3: X300. If you can deal with a poorer LCD (in terms of limited viewing angles) and widescreen aspect ratio (WXGA+; 1440x900), the X300/X301 offers a thin profile but with a built-in optical drive (no UltraBase available). One potential drawback is that it uses 7mm 8mm high, 1.8" wide hard drives. Although it does not have a "true" Ultrabay, the optical drive can be removed and replaced by a 2nd hard drive adapter. 7mm high drives only but you can use the "standard" 2.5" wide ones. I believe a webcam comes with all the various models. Middleton BIOS is also available for this system. Extended duration 6-cell battery available; 3-cell is standard. Due to the battery bay placement (along the front edge), using the 6-cell will raise the front edge of the laptop a couple of mm. I don't have very much exposure to battery runtimes with the X300 yet, but the Power Manager generally reports just over 5 hours with a fully charged 6-cell. My understanding is that the X301 does better on battery life (and yes, I'm looking around eBay for some good deals...).

I've had the X6x systems longer than the X300 (just started collecting them a few months ago). Build quality on both are good IMO. My two 20-something year ago daughters have graduated from T23 to X60. I keep one on the kitchen table and take one with me on vacation. My only real complaint about the X60 is the screen size and resolution; 12.1" XGA. But that's coming from using 14.1" SXGA+ T23 and 15" UXGA A31p for many years. I chose the X300 because it's in between the X60 and T23 in terms of size and resolution. X200 is 12.1" 1280x800 and just seems a little too small for my old eyes.

[dlbeaty]

Ray,

Thanks for the advice. It looks like the x60/61 is the closest to the x30-32 models. Interesting that the stereo line-in option is gone on both systems, even with the ultrabay. I would want the ultrabay for watching videos when traveling, but it sounds like a hassle dealing with the wifi card heat.

The X300 sounds interesting. Am I correct in that the height of the screen is equal to the x30 and x60, and that the extra area size will be in the width? I prefer the 4:3, but at least I would gain in screen space. I might miss the PC card slot, however. for upgrading the sound to 24 bit or need a line-in for recording. I would like to see one up close.

What about the x131e?

Dan

Admin note: Removed unnecessary quoting.

[ajkula66]

Ray,

Thanks for the advice. It looks like the x60/61 is the closest to the x30-32 models.

That is correct.

The X300 sounds interesting. Am I correct in that the height of the screen is equal to the x30 and x60, and that the extra area size will be in the width? I prefer the 4:3, but at least I would gain in screen space. I might miss the PC card slot, however. for upgrading the sound to 24 bit or need a line-in for recording. I would like to see one up close.

These are not easy to come by, and unless you have a ThinkPad buff in the neighbourhood who owns one, I don't think that you'll be able to experience it first hand.

Unlike Ray, I happen to like X200. If you're used to standard XGA panel of X30, this might be a closer match than the X300, and the battery life is outstanding.

What about the x131e?

ThinkPad in the name only, IMO.

[rkawakami]

It looks like the x60/61 is the closest to the x30-32 models.

Indeed. The physical dimensions between the X60/X61 and X31 is almost the same. The X60 is lower in the front by about 1/4". However, it slopes up to the back so that the X60 is actually 1/4" taller than the X31 at the rear. The X60 is about 1/8" narrower and if you aren't using the 8-cell extended battery, then the X60 is 1/2" shorter in depth (3/4" deeper if the 8-cell is attached). The keyboards are virtually identical in size. The only real difference is the inclusion of the Windows key between the CTRL and ALT keys on the X60. Both screens are 12.1" XGA. When mated to their respective UltraBays, the X60 is lower in height by about 1/4", front to back.

Weight for one of my X60 systems with the 8-cell battery and docked to the UltraBay is 5 lbs. 9 oz. Without the UltraBay, it's 3 lbs. 10 oz. I don't have a battery for my X31 so add in about 10 to 12 oz. for the following weights: X31 with UltraBay is 4 lbs. 14 oz. The X31 by itself is just a shade under 3 lbs. So I don't think you're going to notice any weight difference between them. The X60s and X61s systems are a little bit lighter in weight.

When comparing the X31 to the X300, you'll notice right away what many years of laptop development can yield. The X300 is thinner by about 3/16" front to back. It's 3/8" deeper and due to it's widescreen nature, a full 2" wider. Yet, an X300 with the 6-cell battery weights 3 lbs. 7 oz. Remember, this is with a built-in optical drive. Also because of the widescreen, the keyboard is closer to being "full-size". The pitch (key-to-key spacing) of the X31/X60 is 18.5mm. The X300 is 19mm AND is has larger Backspace, backslash and Enter keys. From your years with the X30, you'll probably feel more at home with the keyboard on the X60.

Comparing some electrical specs... X60 swaps the Compact Flash slot on the X30 for a Secure Digital slot; neither is available on the X300. You gain USB 2.0 but lose the parallel and serial ports (in addition to the line-in jack you mentioned). X60 uses the more modern 2.5" SATA hard drives and DDR2 memory. X300 requires the rarer 1.8" SATA drive. X60 and X300 both use the newer 20V AC adapters.

The X300 sounds interesting. Am I correct in that the height of the screen is equal to the x30 and x60, and that the extra area size will be in the width?

Partially. Since the screen dimension is always measured along the diagonal, with the X300 having a widescreen aspect ratio, that means that the height of the X300's 13.3" display is really shorter than the X31/X60. 7 1/16" compared to 7 1/4". You are correct in the respect of the extra screen space being available in the width.

What about the x131e?

No personal experience with that system.

[dlbeaty]

Ray and George,

Does the x200 screen effectively have smaller text because of the wide resolution? I wish the specs would give height and width of the actual screen size, the diagonal doesn't reveal enough.

What other pros and cons should I know about the x200? I guess I like the idea of standard accessories with the x200 and x61. I dont mind having the ultrabase for optical drives either.

Dan

[rkawakami]

Well for me, it's a question of how big the image is when viewing a document full-size that's meant to be printed on a standard 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper in portrait mode. Then, a 12.1" screen is always going to yield a smaller image than a 13.3" screen (as long as the aspect ratio between them is the same). Coupled with the fact that there's fewer pixels on the smaller screen means the image will be grainier. If you compare the PPI (pixels per inch) between the two screens, then the X200 has about 123PPI and the X300 screen has about 126PPI; essentially the same. This means that the icons on the desktop and the fonts will be the same size. You'll just have fewer space to display things on the X200 and possibly a little bit more scrolling around to do.

A quick shot at math says that a 12.1" 16:10 aspect ratio screen should be about 6.5" tall and 10.4" wide. I don't have an X200 to measure, nor give pros and cons about it. George?

[ajkula66]

If you compare the PPI (pixels per inch) between the two screens, then the X200 has about 123PPI and the X300 screen has about 126PPI; essentially the same. This means that the icons on the desktop and the fonts will be the same size. You'll just have fewer space to display things on the X200 and possibly a little bit more scrolling around to do.

I didn't realize that the PPI was so close between the two.

A quick shot at math says that a 12.1" 16:10 aspect ratio screen should be about 6.5" tall and 10.4" wide. I don't have an X200 to measure, nor give pros and cons about it. George?

Well, I just sold my X200 so I can't measure it either. It was pretty tiny by my standards, though...then again, I'm used to 15" units...

I liked it a lot. It was a very cool-running machine with truly excellent battery life, way better in that respect than X201 that I owned at one point and definitely head and shoulders above my X61 as well. I just had no need for it...

To put things into perspective: with an extended battery in good condition, my X61 gets about 5 hours with wireless on and screen at 70% brightness. X200 was going close to 7 hours in the same set of circumstances...

It's been a long time since I last touched a X300, but I remember intensely disliking the screen at the time. I would have to sit and play with one to re-visit that evaluation. Other than that, it was a very competent little machine from what I recall.

[dlbeaty]

My reference point is the X30. Since the x200 is wider than the X30 or X60, the fact of its being a little shorter in height may even things out a bit. There are a few of what might be good deals on ebay now, with the ultrabay included. I am definitely leaning towards it. As long as the icons and text are as easy to see as the X30. The width might even help for documents?

[ajkula66]

As long as the icons and text are as easy to see as the X30.

They definitely are.

The width might even help for documents?

I don't think that you've got *that* much more width. One thing I did truly appreciate when compared with the previous X series models was a full-size keyboard.

[rkawakami]

I didn't realize that the PPI was so close between the two.

Earlier I did some rough calculations given just the width of the screens and horizontal pixel counts. Taking the time and doing the proper geometry (and finding a nice web site that does all the math), then:

PPI = square root(pixel width² + pixel height²) / diagonal measurement of screen (in inches)

so I come up with the following:

X30 12.1" XGA (1024x768) = 104.79 PPI
X200 12.1" WXGA (1280x800) = 124.75 PPI
X300 13.3" WXGA+ (1440x900) = 127.68 PPI

I also looked through the tabook and saw that some X200s models come with a 12.1" WXGA+ screen. I did not know that. With the smaller 12.1" diagonal measurement, then the density works out to be 140.34 PPI. Still, with any of the X200 models, you'll be looking at a screen that's only about 6.4" high. Quite a difference than the 7.25" of the X30.

ref: http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html (Note: as mentioned on this site, all previous calculations assume that the pixels are square in shape)

[dlbeaty]

The short height of the x200 does look like a drawback. I found a comparison photo on the web and the x61 does look larger screen wise. I can live with the keyboard as I am already used to the x30.

Another thing is that many x61s have XP, which will handle my older programs and hardware more easily. Does anyone know if the ultrabase drives of the x30 generation fit the x61?

[ajkula66]

. Does anyone know if the ultrabase drives of the x30 generation fit the x61?

No. You need a X6* non-tablet ultrabase.

[dlbeaty]

Sorry. What I meant was, will drives that fit into the x3 ultrabase work with the X6 ultrabase?

[ajkula66]

No they won't.

[dlbeaty]

Is there a significant difference between the 1.6 and 2 Ghtz processor in the X61?

[ajkula66]

Well, a 1.6 CPU is a low-voltage one that would normally be found in X61S, L7500.

Standard X61 uses a full-voltage CPU such as T7300 (2.0 GHz) or T8100/8300/9300 on later models.

The machines with standard CPUs are more powerful, but run hotter and offer less battery life.

You know your priorities...

[dlbeaty]

Thanks George for the info. This is one of the most helpful forums.

Since I use AC most of the time, Performance would be a priority. My question is how much better performance the 2Ghz processor will yield. The only reason I need another laptop is for better web browsing and videos.

I am thinking that the 2 Ghz processor might hold up longer as the web becomes more and more resource demanding. Am I wrong? How much difference in battery life are we talking?

Well, a 1.6 CPU is a low-voltage one that would normally be found in X61S, L7500.

Standard X61 uses a full-voltage CPU such as T7300 (2.0 GHz) or T8100/8300/9300 on later models.

The machines with standard CPUs are more powerful, but run hotter and offer less battery life.

You know your priorities...

[ajkula66]

If performance is indeed your priority, a later machine with T8100/8300/9300 Penryn CPU is your best bet. They are somewhat more difficult to find, and command a premium (especially the T9300 examples) over the older ones, but are well worth it IMO.

Penryns are the first CPUs that will effectively help with the video performance as well, and they run cooler than T7300/7500 Merom ones found in the original X61 machines as well.

As for the low-voltage L7500/7700 found in X61s, I'd pass if performance is the key word.

Happy hunting.

[dlbeaty]

Not to be a pest, but would you buy online a pc advertised as AS IS? I found a t8300. It was the only of that generation I could find.

This looks like a clean machine, but there seems to be no protection if it doesn't work at all.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... 232cbf3af2

If performance is indeed your priority, a later machine with T8100/8300/9300 Penryn CPU is your best bet. They are somewhat more difficult to find, and command a premium (especially the T9300 examples) over the older ones, but are well worth it IMO.

Penryns are the first CPUs that will effectively help with the video performance as well, and they run cooler than T7300/7500 Merom ones found in the original X61 machines as well.

[ajkula66]

I know for a fact you'll do better in the Marketplace here on the forum.

No, I don't have one to sell you...

Just post a WTB (want to buy) ad and someone will come to the rescue.

[ZaZ]

would you buy online a pc advertised as AS IS?

Well, when you're buying a six year old notebook, used is all you've got. Sellers can claim anything they want and often do, but there is no "As Is" on eBay. If there's a problem, simply dispute it with Paypal/eBay. They almost always side with the buyer. Pay with a credit card if you want an added layer of protection.

[emtee3511]

This machine looks pretty nice -- I found it when I followed your link to the "as is" machine --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Lenovo-X61- ... 802wt_1176


Edit: George is right -- you will almost always do much better purchasing here on the Forum.

[dlbeaty]

would you buy online a pc advertised as AS IS?

Well, when you're buying a six year old notebook, used is all you've got. Sellers can claim anything they want and often do, but there is no "As Is" on eBay. If there's a problem, simply dispute it with Paypal/eBay. They almost always side with the buyer. Pay with a credit card if you want an added layer of protection.

All I could find was that you are protected if the item is not as advertised. This particular seller makes no claim that the laptop works at all. It does show several windows screens.

Are you saying that Ebay will refund my money if I pay with a credit card and there is anything broken, like the wifi or sound?

[dlbeaty]

This machine looks pretty nice -- I found it when I followed your link to the "as is" machine --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Lenovo-X61- ... 802wt_1176


Edit: George is right -- you will almost always do much better purchasing here on the Forum.

Yes, I saw that one too. Only I would have to add the cost of the dock and DVD, and since George informed me about the newer processors, I have been looking for them. Not all Ebayers give specific information about that.

I would definitely want to support this forum first. I have been watching for some time. I will post a WTB later, after I think about my preferences.

[ZaZ]

Are you saying that Ebay will refund my money if I pay with a credit card and there is anything broken, like the wifi or sound?

I can't say with 100% certainty you'd get your money back, but I've disputed 10 or so items and won all of them. You'd just be out the cost of return shipping with a tracking number. A seller is supposed to report in the item description anything that will materially effect the value of the item. I'm not sure if that's the exact wordage, but that's the idea. For example if you bought a notebook with a cracked lid and the buyer never mentioned it, that could be the basis for a dispute as it would fall outside the bounds of normal wear. If you notice the item description of the X61 linked, it says the item used, but fully functional, though may have wear. If it shows up and the sound or WiFi doesn't work, that's not fully functional and you could definitely dispute it with eBay on the basis of the item description.

Paying with a credit card adds another layer of protection because if for some reason eBay decides in the sellers favor, you can dispute the transaction with the credit card company and they give you a longer time period to dispute than the 45 days eBay does, though eBay and/or Paypal may close your accounts if you win.

I would wholeheartedly agree with others, buying one here in the marketplace is a much better option than eBay.

My vote would be for the X200 with the AFFS mod. It's a great little notebook.

[dlbeaty]

Edit: George is right -- you will almost always do much better purchasing here on the Forum.

Just wanted to get back with everyone on my decision. I took your advice to work with forum users, and agree that was the best choice. BobA set me up with nice x62 for a fair price. I am very please with the service also!

Dan