Win7--->Win10 evidently solved a bad problem with T60

[Muse]

The machine:

1953CTO ThinkPad T Series T60
Intel Core 2 Duo processor T5500 1.66GHz
14.1 SXGA+ TFT (Displaying to 23" and 19" LCDs by virtue of model 2504 mini dock)
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950
3 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory
Intel 330 180GB SSD
CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo 24X/24X/24X/8X Max, Ultrabay Slim
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe

It was a long time before I installed my first SSD, an Intel 330 180GB. I'd read posts galore from people who said they loved the improvements over HDs. I bought this SSD almost 4 years ago (Nov. 2012), didn't install it until March 2014), at the same time installing Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit. Could have installed 64bit on the machine but I have some apps that require 32bit, so stuck with that.

I have had persistent 2-5 minute timeouts almost daily ever since... until I installed Windows 10 five days ago. Not one since then. There were days I must have had 1/2 dozen such timeouts... they were very aggravating. The computer would become completely unresponsive. Windows Event Viewer Windows log showed iastor() timeouts with the storage device, obviously the SSD.

It seemed I was the only person on the planet who had to say that moving from a HD to an SSD was a terrible experience, all things considered.

Running Intel SSD Toolbox's Optimizer (weekly, and then daily) seemed to slow down the frequency (I may be mistaken there), but it certainly didn't resolve the problem. I thought the SSD might have been bad, but I was uncertain and I let the 3 year warranty slide by. One person posted that if I tried to RMA the SSD, I'd have a very frustrating experience.

One guy in these forums said he had the exact same machine and SSD as me, had the same timeouts using Win7, and that when he upgraded from Win7 to Win10 his timeouts went away. So, I was hopeful that would happen for me, but I still put off the upgrade for more than 1/2 a year and with the July 29 deadline fast approaching, I did the fresh install of Win10 (again, 32bit), last week (evidently successful although the upgrade tool said my CPU wasn't supported!!! I thought that bogus and ignored it.). I had imaged the Win7 installation, but the way things are going looks like I'm never looking back!!!

[Cigarguy]

I love the T60 family. I have a few in both 14" and 15" variety. All have a SSD with HDD in the Ultrabay. At least one is used daily. Never had any issue with SSD timing out under Win 7.

For a system that can only accommodate 3GB RAM I don't see any benefit to go with a 64 bit OS.

[danikayser84]

Yeah, I tried a T510 for a few months but sold it off because I didn't like the 16:9 form factor... ended up going back to my 16:10 T61s and 4:3 T60s and T61 (I use an SSD in my 4:3 T60 and T61, have not had any issues under Windows 7, in either 32 or 64 bit)

Ever since I acquired a 4:3 Intel T61 fairly recently, I've pretty much replaced my T43 with it for daily use... replaced my T61's original XGA screen with the Quanta SXGA+ one mentioned in this thread, added a USB 3.0 ExpressCard, CardBus SD reader, 240GB SSD and 8GB RAM

[Muse]

I love the T60 family. I have a few in both 14" and 15" variety. All have a SSD with HDD in the Ultrabay. At least one is used daily. Never had any issue with SSD timing out under Win 7.

For a system that can only accommodate 3GB RAM I don't see any benefit to go with a 64 bit OS. <------

Would that be true for a T61? Last week I installed Win10 64bit on this T61 (i.e. not the one that was getting the timeouts). I installed 64bit because I figured (maybe wrong) that the 4GB RAM installed would give some more usable memory than if I'd installed 32bit. However, if you're right that there's no real advantage I will look into installing 32bit Win10 on it instead. I have some apps that won't work in 64bit Windows. It wouldn't be a big deal to reinstall at this point, I haven't gotten around to installing many apps on this machine.

[Muse]

Yeah, I tried a T510 for a few months but sold it off because I didn't like the 16:9 form factor... ended up going back to my 16:10 T61s and 4:3 T60s and T61 (I use an SSD in my 4:3 T60 and T61, have not had any issues under Windows 7, in either 32 or 64 bit)

Ever since I acquired a 4:3 Intel T61 fairly recently, I've pretty much replaced my T43 with it for daily use... replaced my T61's original XGA screen with the Quanta SXGA+ one mentioned in this thread, added a USB 3.0 ExpressCard, CardBus SD reader, 240GB SSD and 8GB RAM

Your T61 accommodates 8GB of RAM??? I am on my T61 now, I thought it would only accommodate 4GB of RAM. Am I mistaken there?

The specs:

Lenovo product ID 6465CTO
Lenovo ThinkPad T61
Intel Core 2 Duo @2.40GHz, T7700
Memory 4GB
640GB HD
VGA Intel 965 Express GMA X3100 128MB
Display WSXGA + TFT 15.4' resolution 1680x1050
Network Wireless Intel 4965 AGN

[danikayser84]

Yes, as far as I can tell all T61s (Merom and Penryn) can take 8GB of RAM as the Intel 965GM/965PM can take up to 2 sticks of 4GB (I run both my main T61s on 8GB PC2-6400 RAM, however the RAM is pretty expensive/rare); don't think you need Middleton BIOS, but I have it on both my T61s

[RealBlackStuff]

ALWAYS install Middleton's BIOS on ANY R61/T61/X61.
SATA II speed, Slic2.1 applied, wifi whitelist removed, etc.
You don't get that anywhere else!

[Muse]

ALWAYS install Middleton's BIOS on ANY R61/T61/X61.
SATA II speed, Slic2.1 applied, wifi whitelist removed, etc.
You don't get that anywhere else!

OK, I'm going to do it.

Questions (3)

1. Will I get support for 8GB RAM? I kind of think I only have support for 4GB right now.

2. How/where do I get the necessary files and info to do the upgrade to the Middleton BIOS for this T61?

3. Is there a superior BIOS for my T60's? I have two of those: 1953CTO and 2623D6U

Thanks!

[danikayser84]

I was trying to mention that Middleton BIOS doesn't matter for 8GB RAM support, but install it anyway for whitelist removal, SATA-II and SLIC 2.1 It's available at this page

Edit: As for the T60, I used the BIOS from here which removed the whitelist and added SLIC 2.1 (T60 will only support 3GB RAM and SATA-I no matter what due to its 945 chipset)

[Muse]

I was trying to mention that Middleton BIOS doesn't matter for 8GB RAM support, but install it anyway for whitelist removal, SATA-II and SLIC 2.1 It's available at this page

Edit: As for the T60, I used the BIOS from here which removed the whitelist and added SLIC 2.1 (T60 will only support 3GB RAM and SATA-I no matter what due to its 945 chipset)

OK, thanks... I'll do those BIOS updates.

Now, from what you guys are saying I gather that this T61 supports 8GB of RAM, and presumably if I run 64bit Windows 10 on it, it will utilize that RAM, but the gotcha is that I'd need a couple of EXPENSIVE 4GB sticks, right? Any info on that, how much, where, specs? TIA...

Dan

[danikayser84]

I used PC2-6400 Hynix (4GB x2) but PC2-5300 is what the specs call for; they tend to run around $90-$150 brand new for a pair of 2 on eBay but they show up for as little as $60 or so at times if you wait (auctions tend to end lower than Buy it Now most of the time, keep in mind)

[Muse]

I used PC2-6400 Hynix (4GB x2) but PC2-5300 is what the specs call for; they tend to run around $90-$150 brand new for a pair of 2 on eBay but they show up for as little as $60 or so at times if you wait (auctions tend to end lower than Buy it Now most of the time, keep in mind)

Thanks. Now, I read something a few minutes ago about it having to be DDR2, not DDR3, right?

I'm going to put 2 sticks on my shopping list and scour Ebay for auctions. I'm pretty experienced in ebay shopping! Well, I've done a lot of it, I figure around 200 purchases, some sales too.

[RealBlackStuff]

Do this search on eBay:

Code: Select all

8gb (pc2-5300,pc2-6400,ddr2-667,ddr2-800) (laptop,sodimm,200-pin) -pc2-4200 -1gb -2GB -2gbx4 -4x2gb

Stick to brand names, from USA.
Personally I would buy this (if I had the need): http://www.ebay.com/itm/252475626990
Or go luxury, and offer $100 for: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252445216332

[Muse]

Do this search on eBay:

Code: Select all

8gb (pc2-5300,pc2-6400,ddr2-667,ddr2-800) (laptop,sodimm,200-pin) -pc2-4200 -1gb -2GB -2gbx4 -4x2gb

Stick to brand names, from USA.
Personally I would buy this (if I had the need): http://www.ebay.com/itm/252475626990
Or go luxury, and offer $100 for: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252445216332

Thanks! I bought (BIN) that first-linked listing, the used Axiom. It said I should get it by August 2 = my birthday! That's also the date that Win10's new rollout is due.

Now I have a good reason to keep my 64bit Win10 installation on the machine. I'll update the BIOSs on all 3 of my thinkpads in the coming days.

[Muse]

I was trying to mention that Middleton BIOS doesn't matter for 8GB RAM support, but install it anyway for whitelist removal, SATA-II and SLIC 2.1 It's available at this page

Edit: As for the T60, I used the BIOS from here which removed the whitelist and added SLIC 2.1 (T60 will only support 3GB RAM and SATA-I no matter what due to its 945 chipset)

The T61 for which I just bought 8GB DDR2 has a SAMSUNG Spinpoint MP4 HM640JJ 640GB SATA-II HD. So, if I install the Middleton BIOS will I get better HD performance than I'm getting? AFAIK it has the stock BIOS in it. The machine is Lenovo ID: 6465CTO.

Edit: I think another option might be clever. I have a new unused 120GB Intel 330 SSD, it's been sitting around for almost 4 years. I could put that in the machine for the OS and Apps, move the 640GB drive to the optical bay for data (I have an adapter), and with the Middleton BIOS could get 3GB/Sec performance from the SSD (assuming it supports it, the specs say 6GB/sec, so I guess so). I don't often need the optical drive and I have a USB optical drive anyway, if needed.

Edit2: Belarc Advisor indicates I already have the Lenovo 79ETE7WW (2.27) 03/21/2011 BIOS installed on one of my T60's (which is running WinXP). Will check what the others have.

Edit3: My Win10 T60 has BIOS: LENOVO 79ETE6WW (2.26 ) 04/01/2010. I'll update it to 79ETE7WW (2.27) 03/21/2011.

My T61 has BIOS: LENOVO 7LETC6WW (2.26 ) 05/11/2009. Will update it to the Middleton BIOS.

[Cigarguy]

I doubt you'll notice any speed increase with any HDD. A SSD these days is a must. I'm running one on all my machines from a T42 to a W520. My typical set up is SSD in the main drive bay with a HDD in the Ultrabay for data. With a proper install Win 7 will work fine on any of these machines. Win 10 is not a magic bullet.

[Muse]

I doubt you'll notice any speed increase with any HDD. A SSD these days is a must. I'm running one on all my machines from a T42 to a W520. My typical set up is SSD in the main drive bay with a HDD in the Ultrabay for data. With a proper install Win 7 will work fine on any of these machines. Win 10 is not a magic bullet.

Well, Win10 did stop the timeouts I was having on one of my T60s. I haven't had one in the 5+ days since installation of Win10. The SSD is 180GB and is partitioned, data on the 2nd partition. There's a 100MB Service partition that Win7 set up on installation. Win10 is presumably using that, don't know. I elected to format the OS_Apps partition and install Win10 in there, still have that data partition.

There's actually no good reason to not install a HD in the ultra bay since I have a USB optical drive attached to the machine which I trust more than the slim one.

So far I am liking Win10, I gotta say. It cured (seem like) the aggravating timeouts I was getting on one of my T60s and all the kinks I've seen I've been able to resolve, AFAIK IIRC. I figure that support for Win7 will terminate before that for Win10, another reason to "upgrade." I have a feeling that some network issues (over wifi) that I was having when using Win7 may have improved. Not sure, but the last few days have been absent bad issues, so will see.

[Muse]

What BIOS update utilities do I need to install these?

1. On my T60 running Win10 32bit Home Premium:
T60-227-SLICcolinzim.rar

2. On my T61 (specs above) running Win10 64bit Professional:
Middleton_Dual-IDA_SATA-II_Whitelist_SLIC21_Thermal_Sensing_Error_ThinkPad_T61_T61p_BIOS_(2.29-1.08).rar

[danikayser84]

Use a program like 7-ZIP or WinRar to extract the files, then burn the ISO images to a CD and boot from the disc; you will need a charged battery and AC adapter connected in order to complete the BIOS update... after the update is complete it is recommended to go into the BIOS setup (F1 key) and hit F9 to load defaults, Enter, then F10 to "Save and Exit"

Also, is your T60 widescreen 15.4 or is it standard 14.1? Be careful not to use the wrong BIOS file for the T60

[Muse]

Use a program like 7-ZIP or WinRar to extract the files, then burn the ISO images to a CD and boot from the disc; you will need a charged battery and AC adapter connected in order to complete the BIOS update... after the update is complete it is recommended to go into the BIOS setup (F1 key) and hit F9 to load defaults, Enter, then F10 to "Save and Exit"

Also, is your T60 widescreen 15.4 or is it standard 14.1? Be careful not to use the wrong BIOS file for the T60

Oh, I didn't realize the .rar files were compressed, I thought they were the actual BIOS.

Load defaults, then I guess I can go back in and tweak, although I don't know what tweaks I'd want.

The T60 is a standard 14" display. Here's its specs:

Lenovo T60
1953CTO ThinkPad T Series T60
Intel Core 2 Duo processor T5500
Windows 10 Home Premium 32bit
14.1 SXGA+ TFT
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950
3 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory

Is that BIOS inappropriate? It's the T60-227-SLICcolinzim.rar

The machine is kept in a minidock. I should remove it and have the battery inserted? Normally I don't have the battery inserted, I use it on AC. I can't use a flash driver for the BIOS update? Could I use a CDRW?

[Muse]

Just finished installing the Middleton BIOS on this T61. Looking it up, seems that flashing from USB isn't supported. It may work but I didn't want to chance it. I created a bootable CDRW. Current BIOS is: LENOVO 7LETC9WW (2.29 ) 03/18/2011. I want to do some research before flashing my Win10 T60, not sure it's the appropriate BIOS.

[Muse]

I received the 8GB of DDR2 by virtue of my ebay buy it now purchase. I got it today, put it in the machine and it wouldn't boot. The machine only boots if a certain one of the two modules is in slot one of the T61. With both DIMMs inserted Windows still only reports 4GB RAM installed.

This is the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252475626990

I'm not just concerned that I have a bad module, I wonder if it's really PC2-6400. The memtest86 version 4.00 test screen when I'm testing the working module shows this (what do you think?):

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipO ... sNERHFfqLX

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ziu-w ... 22-h914-no

[ajkula66]

I received the 8GB of DDR2 by virtue of my ebay buy it now purchase. I got it today, put it in the machine and it wouldn't boot. The machine only boots if a certain one of the two modules is in slot one of the T61. With both DIMMs inserted Windows still only reports 4GB RAM installed.

Bad DIMM or a defective RAM slot, hopefully the former.

I'm not just concerned that I have a bad module, I wonder if it's really PC2-6400.

What else would it be? As long as it's DDR2, it should work. Neither DDR nor DDR3 in any shape or form would even fit the slots in your machine.

[RealBlackStuff]

@Muse:
Both those Google-links don't work on PaleMoon browser.
On IE they ask to enter Gmail info, NO WAY.
Please apply a more user-friendly service for showing pictures, like http://imgur.com/

[shawross]

Didn't work in Chrome either

[Muse]

@Muse:
Both those Google-links don't work on PaleMoon browser.
On IE they ask to enter Gmail info, NO WAY.
Please apply a more user-friendly service for showing pictures, like http://imgur.com/

Thank you... I was looking for a forum friendly image hosting site I belong to in my data. Didn't find it. Well, I just signed up to imgur (thanks for the tip, realblackstuff, very cool ) and uploaded those two JPGs and will endeavor to display them here. In any case, I arranged a return of the Axiom DDR2 modules and made that $100 offer for the $106 offered Elpida DDR2 that you also suggested and was accepted and I completed the transaction! I searched and can find no correlation between what you see in the photo of the RAM and PC2-6400 or PC2-5300. I think the memtest86 vers. 4.00 screen shot should reveal the truth of that. What do you think?

http://i.imgur.com/uKkQIZwh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8pkzF0Eh.jpg

Mod edit: pix too big, tags removed.

[RealBlackStuff]

Your Memtest86 is fairly dated, the current version is 7.0.
The 667MHz would indicate it's PC2-5300 and not PC2-6400 as advertised.
I have bought many Axioms over the years and always received PC2-6400 ones, never a faulty one either.

[Muse]

Your Memtest86 is fairly dated, the current version is 7.0.
The 667MHz would indicate it's PC2-5300 and not PC2-6400 as advertised.
I have bought many Axioms over the years and always received PC2-6400 ones, never a faulty one either.

Thanks for this confirmation. I had messaged the seller that the specs were wrong. Now I know I wasn't wrong in saying that. I have a postage paid label from ebay to slap on the package, which I'll send Monday. The seller did not IMO properly package the modules. They were lightly wrapped in a little small-bubble bubble-wrap and they shoved that in a typical paper yellow mailing envelope. I think it quite possible that the module was ruined in shipment.

I'm going to download the version 7 memtest now.

[thinkpadcollection]

DDR2-667 speed is norm on 60 and 61 series. But: T60 has a limitation but not memory themselves, is about 3.5GB total, 61 series is full 4GB or 8GB. The 4500MHD chipset can feature either DDR2-800 or DDR3-1066 in many notebooks but I liked so much that thinkpad T400/T500 features ddr3 for 1066 fsb C2D processors. I have a better quality toshiba using 1066 fsb C2D using pair of DDR2-800 slots running at 800, 8GB total, generic brand using micron chips like yours. But your is T60 means 2x 2GB = 4GB max.

Make sure your memory module contacts are clean; rub with piece of folded paper over gold contacts on memory modules only, both sides.

Keep in mind, 2x 2GB max for 60 series but as 3.5GB or so, 61 series can do 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 3GB, 4GB, 6 or 8GB.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

[Muse]

DDR2-667 speed is norm on 60 and 61 series. But: T60 has a limitation but not memory themselves, is about 3.5GB total, 61 series is full 4GB or 8GB. The 4500MHD chipset can feature either DDR2-800 or DDR3-1066 in many notebooks but I liked so much that thinkpad T400/T500 features ddr3 for 1066 fsb C2D processors. I have a better quality toshiba using 1066 fsb C2D using pair of DDR2-800 slots running at 800, 8GB total, generic brand using micron chips like yours. But your is T60 means 2x 2GB = 4GB max.

Make sure your memory module contacts are clean; rub with piece of folded paper over gold contacts on memory modules only, both sides.

Keep in mind, 2x 2GB max for 60 series but as 3.5GB or so, 61 series can do 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 3GB, 4GB, 6 or 8GB.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

Your OS may report 8GB in your T61, but how do you know that it's using more than 4GB?

"The BIOS, Windows, or SPD readers may be 'reporting' 8GB but it's likely not actually using any of it over 4GB. Otherwise, it's an unsupported configuration by Intel (i.e. unsupported mod)."

The above quote is from: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread. ... st38399755

I suppose one could substantiate the 8GB actual usage by doing benchmarks using 4GB and 8GB in a T61 and comparing the results. Has anyone done that?