Queston re: ThinkPads and DVI

[Sottozero]

I have on order a ThinkPad T60p (2007-94U, completely loaded: Core Duo 2.16, 2 GB RAM, 100 GB 7200 RPM drive, FireGL V5200 256 MB) and, potentially, the ThinkPad Advanced Dock (to get a DVI port).

My Lenovo sales rep just told me that the Advanced Dock does indeed have a DVI port, but its max resolution is 1600 x 1200. It cannot support higher resolutions without a 3rd party PCI video card being installed in the dock.

Does anyone know if this is true, or is the rep misguided here? If true, I'll have to cancel my order. I'm looking to drive an HP L2335 1920 x 1200 LCD, and I find it INCREDIBLE that a machine like the T60p with the FireGL v5200 can't drive 1920 x 1200 via its newest and best docking station.

Thanks all.

[snife]

nah - the max res used to be UXGA but its higher on the new docks so you should be ok.

[RonS]

No worries. The max resolution for single-link DVI is 1920x1200, aven my T42p can do that through the Dock II. The v5200 will easily match that.

[Porsche]

I confirm that. My T42p attached to a minidock is running my Samsung 244T display with 1920 x 1200 just fine via dvi. I am even using IBM display driver.

[ScotchDiver]

Ditto that,

The "Hardware Announcement", i.e. spec sheet, for the T60p is available at the following URL:

http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/OIX.w ... nfoType=AN


Page 3 has a table showing supported resolutions for both display sizes (14.1" and 15"). According to this at least, your'e good up to 2048 x 1536 on either version


Scott

Note: Sorry for the bad formatting, multi-column PDFs make sloppy text.

----Excerpt----

ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 (256 MB) with 1400 x 1050 resolution TFT

TFT LCD
Resolution Color depth

640 x 480 256, 64K, 16M
800 x 600 256, 64K, 16M
1024 x 768 256, 64K, 16M
1280 x 1024 256, 64K, 16M
1600 x 1200 256 64K 16M
2048 x 1536 256(12), 64K(12), 16M(12)

External monitor
Resolution Color Refresh rate (Hz)

640 x 480 256 60, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
640 x 480 64K 60, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
640 x 480 16M 60, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
800 x 600 256 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
800 x 600 64K 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
800 x 600 16M 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1024 x 768 256 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 150, 160
1024 x 768 64K 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 150, 160
1024 x 768 16M 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 150, 160
1280 x 1024 256 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1280 x 1024 64K 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1280 x 1024 16M 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1600 x 1200 256 60, 75, 85, 100, 120
1600 x 1200 64K 60, 75, 85, 100, 120
1600 x 1200 16M 60, 75, 85, 100, 120
2048 x 1536 256 60, 66, 70, 75
2048 x 1536 64K 60, 66, 70, 75
2048 x 1536 16M 60, 66, 70, 75

ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 (256 MB) with 1600 x 1200
resolution TFT Flexview display with wide viewing angle
and high density

TFT LCD
Resolution Color depth

640 x 480 256, 64K, 16M
800 x 600 256, 64K, 16M
1024 x 768 256, 64K, 16M
1280 x 1024 256, 64K, 16M
1600 x 1200 256 64K 16M
2048 x 1536 256(12), 64K(12), 16M(12)

External monitor
Resolution Color Refresh rate (Hz)

640 x 480 256 60, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
640 x 480 64K 60, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
640 x 480 16M 60, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
800 x 600 256 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
800 x 600 64K 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
800 x 600 16M 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1024 x 768 256 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 150, 160
1024 x 768 64K 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 150, 160
1024 x 768 16M 60, 70, 72, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 150, 160
1280 x 1024 256 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1280 x 1024 64K 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1280 x 1024 16M 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100, 120, 160
1600 x 1200 256 60, 75, 85, 100, 120
1600 x 1200 64K 60, 75, 85, 100, 120
1600 x 1200 16M 60, 75, 85, 100, 120
2048 x 1536 256 60, 66, 70, 75
2048 x 1536 64K 60, 66, 70, 75
2048 x 1536 16M 60, 66, 70, 75

[Sottozero]

Thanks all. Awesome information.

My rep called me back last night and told me he goofed. I originally told him that the DVI port is hardware that has pass-through functionality; the actual video resolution support would be determined by the T60p's GPU. He said no, that the docks actually have some sort of hardware limitation in the DVI port. I found this to be very strange (i.e. I had never heard of it before, like, ever), and I asked him to confirm with a senior technician.

Sure enough, there is no 1600 x 1200 limitation. The DVI port via the advanced dock will do 2048 x1536, as Scotch and others have mentioned. I expect nothing less from a card such as the FireGL V5200.

So, no worries.

Thanks for the info, everyone. Much appreciated.

[RonS]

Sorry to disappoint you, but those tables are clearly referring to the VGA (analog) connector. There is no way to push 2048x1536 16M resolution through a Single-link DVI cable. 2048*1536*60Hz is 188.7MHz, and Single-link DVI maxes out at 165MHz. Since the quoted refresh rates go beyond 60Hz, this is information clearly describes analog VGA. Another clue is all of the aspect ratios describe CRT-based display devices (4:3 or 5:4), no LCD widescreen resolutions are mentioned.

2048x1536 resolution requires Dual-link DVI. Nothing I've found in IBM/Lenovo's documentation suggests that the Advanced Dock will support Dual-link DVI. DVI-D is mentioned, but that means Single-link DVI with Digital only, no analog support on the DVI connector.

IBM/Lenovo has been notoriously inaccurate in quoting the specs and capabilities of the Thinkpad video hardware. There's still the possibility that the DVI is actually Dual-link, or the Analog VGA supports NAVI which could get digital-quality signals out on VGA at very high resolutions. But I would call those possibilities dim at best.

It's a virtrual certainty that the v5200 will support 1920x1200 over the Advanced Dock's DVI, so anyone with a nice 24" display can rest easy. In order to go to, say a 30" display, you will need to put a Dual-link capable video card in the PCI-Express slot in the Advanced Dock, or resort to other more esoteric solutions.

[ZildjianKX]

Sorry to disappoint you, but those tables are clearly referring to the VGA (analog) connector. There is no way to push 2048x1536 16M resolution through a Single-link DVI cable. 2048*1536*60Hz is 188.7MHz, and Single-link DVI maxes out at 165MHz. Since the quoted refresh rates go beyond 60Hz, this is information clearly describes analog VGA. Another clue is all of the aspect ratios describe CRT-based display devices (4:3 or 5:4), no LCD widescreen resolutions are mentioned.

2048x1536 resolution requires Dual-link DVI. Nothing I've found in IBM/Lenovo's documentation suggests that the Advanced Dock will support Dual-link DVI. DVI-D is mentioned, but that means Single-link DVI with Digital only, no analog support on the DVI connector.

IBM/Lenovo has been notoriously inaccurate in quoting the specs and capabilities of the Thinkpad video hardware. There's still the possibility that the DVI is actually Dual-link, or the Analog VGA supports NAVI which could get digital-quality signals out on VGA at very high resolutions. But I would call those possibilities dim at best.

It's a virtrual certainty that the v5200 will support 1920x1200 over the Advanced Dock's DVI, so anyone with a nice 24" display can rest easy. In order to go to, say a 30" display, you will need to put a Dual-link capable video card in the PCI-Express slot in the Advanced Dock, or resort to other more esoteric solutions.

Wow, just wanted to stop and say that was an awesome post.

[bushido]

In all the list of supported resolutions listed above, I don't see what I run my wide screen LCD at listed, namely 1680x1050. Should I assume that since the video card (X1300) can do higher than that that it shouldn't be a problem?

[jeremivw]

In all the list of supported resolutions listed above, I don't see what I run my wide screen LCD at listed, namely 1680x1050. Should I assume that since the video card (X1300) can do higher than that that it shouldn't be a problem?

I really don't think it will be a problem for you. I've seen others in these forums (I really trust posters here) who have stated they run wide screen res's through the DVI port on the dock...

That being said, I think the whole thing makes sense, reallly. Lenovo doesn't load any widescreen drivers because the native LCD res's on the T series are 4:3...they can't be expected (IMO) to ship their laptops with 16:10 drivers. You might want to check in with the Z forum since those guys have Thinkpads with native widescreens.

To answer your question, I think that is, indeed, a safe assumption. You'd only have to find the driver you need to support the wide aspect of your LCD...the hardware should be more than capable.

[walt3k]

Not sure if this is a stupid question or not but I had hoped I would be able to connect the T60 to an analog projection TV to get Hi-res video/movies on it. I know all about the problems attaching a TV to the VGA monitor port of a computer; however the ATI Avivo details gave me hope that the graphics hardware would simply detect what was connected to the VGA display port. I am referring to this:


http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/ati/av ... x.php?p=03

"Consumer electronics displays have a different range of timing modes to PC displays and previous ATI hardware has used software routines to match the timing modes when these displays are being connected to, however Avivo now features a complete set of timings for both PC and consumer electronics standards which should reduce issues such as over scan on TV Outputs."

I imagine my TV supports the DVI-A (analog) input as well as DVI-D(? Mitsubishi just calls it MonitorLink) therefore, I was hoping one of the following would be possible:

1. Connect the VGA port of the T60 to the DVI Input of the TV using one of these:

http://www.datapro.net/products/1145.html


2. Connect the VGA port to the component video input of the TV using
something like this:

http://www.dsmiller.com/html/Electronic ... -512IV.htm


It seems like at least #2 would work... not sure why they would sell the cables for #1 if it were not possible... mmmm...

Any comments would be appreciated.

By the way, just to try tp provide a little value-add, it seems the
limitation on the docking station is discussed/defined in detail here:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... throughput