Need help with decision: which new T60?

Message

thinktank · #1 Post by **thinktank** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:57 pm

Hello,

I am new here and I am in the decision making process of getting a new notebook. Any input and advice would be greatly appreciated. I read a lot of postings already and found very many helpful hints and instructions that narrowed down my search and took away some concerns of possibel issues that need to be dealt with after the purchase (while creating a few others...). I'll try to be short.

Two models in question:

T60 with 15" SXGA+, 128MB ATI, 100GB drive, 1GB memory, DVD RW

T60 with 14" SXGA+, 64MB ATI, 80 GB, 1GB memory, DVD RW

I can get both at really good educational discounts directly through my university. The price difference is approx. $300.

Purpose: grad school, general use, work, some multimedia while traveling (basic video, photo and music editing) - but mostly grad school daily use. It will run Windows and a university version of Linux (Fedora based) as a dual boot.

Questions:

1. I like the fact that the 14" is slightly lighter and smaller, but I am concerned that the SXGA+ may be just on the edge of making fonts etc too small for daily use (I am pretty short sighted so my glasses make things even smaller, while I can't see even at screen distance without glasses...). But the 15" may be just too big for carrying around in a bagback around town and campus often.
Size and weight vs font size is the most important factor right now. If the hard drive has 20GB more or if I spent 300 dollars less is not as decisive, but also factors to consider.
Suggestions?

2. Is it possible to copy the rescue partition to an external hard drive like a Maxtor One Touch etc?

3. Can the graphics chip (ATI Mobility RADEON X1300 with 64MB video memory) be upgraded if that was ever usefull? I am not a gamer. It's just a question if for example it became necessary to install Vista or something like that (no such plans though...)

4. How difficult is it to mirror the original hard drive to a second hard drive in the ultra bay? That way I could put in a bigger one in the notebook and keep the original one for backups or with the "out of the box XP".

5. Can Linux be installed as a second system next to XP with using the Microsoft boot manager while keeping the rescue partition functional?

I am sure some of the questions have been dealt with before, so I appologize, but I need to make a decision next week.

Thanks.

sugo · #2 Post by **sugo** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:04 pm

1. I have very poor eyesight and wear glasses. However, I found 14.1" SXGA+ very usable after adjusting DPI in advanced video settings to 120.

3. Graphics is soldered on the motherboard thus it cannot be upgraded separately.

4. Easy but you will need a lenovo made ultrabay slim 2nd hdd adapter.

#3 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:11 pm

They are both fine machines, read through the posts in this forum in addition to information provided in this post, i like my t60 a lot.

In regards to your questions, i'll provide what i can.

1. The fonts are smaller with this resolution, you can tweak a lot of the fonts, like sugo suggests, but having some vision issues could pose a problem, you could change the resolution, but lose the sharp quality. I have been able to adjust "almost" every aspect of the resolution to suit my needs, some web pages still display small fonts, Opera web browser (IMO) is best for setting all aspects of the font sizes. It is also a matter of getting used the the size, as i have had mostly 1200X768 machines before. The 14" really is an excellent size for portability, I do find the 9 cell battery to big for my needs right now. Comparing my 14" and 15" models the 14" wins for useful portability for what I need, if you really need a "portable" go with 14".

2. Yes there is an option to copy the rescue media either to CD/DVD or external drive.

3. No

4. Never used an ultra bay drive.

5. Yes, check the Linux forum, you can reinstall the IBM boot Mgr if you ever unexpectedly lose the ability to boot to the R&R partition. This is usually a problem after installing an additional OS, or clean installing (retail) XP with the HPA still on the drive.

Once you find your way around the forum here you'll find more in depth answers to your questions, welcome, and good luck with your purchase, whichever it is.

guYom · #4 Post by **guYom** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:21 pm

Check newegg.com you can get a Hitachi 100GB HDD7200 RPM for 150USD, I would get the cheaper machine and upgrade the HDD, get an external 19 screen.

The 14.1 screen is just fine.

Check prices also on coastcentral.com

You are making the right move with a ThinkPad regarless, and with this very useful board.

Good luck!

#5 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:51 am

all of the above advice is well taken..

only one additional point..
the 15 inch SXGA+ is a flexview display..
MUCH wider angle of view..
i.e. those sitting beside you can read whats on your display..
and
better color..
and
as you already know, bigger and heavier..

i suggest not thinking about the HDD as these are now commoditized and thus very cheap and not a big factor in any buying decision unless you are impecunious..

also, i use acronis true image to archive my entire HDD to external drives..
(usually older PATA 60gig 80gig and 100gig drives from former thinkpads)..

welcome to the thinkpad owners club..

jagged · #6 Post by **jagged** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:01 am

Everybody's comments are very correct!

About whether to go 14" or 15", I carry my laptop everyday to and from the car. While 15" is the ideal laptop screen size, aside from the extra weight, physical dimensions also make it somewhat unwieldy.

I would say 14" is the perfect compromise! Its still a tad too heavy but its ok especially if youre also carrying documents on your bag.

dfumento · #7 Post by **dfumento** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:16 pm

Get the 14" SXGA+, but with only 512 MB RAM and then buy a 1GB stick of RAM from www.newegg.com for about $80 or less.
You'll save money and the extra RAM could be useful. Also, be certain to get a 3 year warranty.

Puppy · #8 Post by **Puppy** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:24 pm

15" is IPS panel (FlexView)

irfan · #9 Post by **irfan** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:55 pm

I have a T60 with model number 2007C4U. It is a tiny 14.1" SXGA+

I personally like the 14.1" SXGA+ screen. Before I bought it I thought that the resolution was too high because I usually do a lot of reading. But the screen turned out to be just right. I have posted a lot of pictures of the screen with text on the screen on another place. You may check them from http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=57417

jjesusfreak01 · #10 Post by **jjesusfreak01** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:08 pm

The FlexView screen on the 15in model is really nice, and it works as well as advertised. If you dont need it though, its not really something to consider, but if you think you might want it...

thinktank · #11 Post by **thinktank** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:29 pm

Puppy wrote:15" is IPS panel (FlexView)

Thanks for the advice. Is the 15" always Flexview? According to the university store, both models are non-Flexview....

thinktank · #12 Post by **thinktank** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:33 pm

dfumento wrote:Get the 14" SXGA+, but with only 512 MB RAM and then buy a 1GB stick of RAM from www.newegg.com for about $80 or less.
You'll save money and the extra RAM could be useful. Also, be certain to get a 3 year warranty.

Thanks for the advice. Can I mix and match like this? The machine comes with 512 and the store agreed to add another 512 stick for 60 something including putting it in for me. However, if I can add a 1GB stick myself and have a total of 1.5GB for 80 bucks, it seems like the better choice as long as two different sticks don't cause trouble...

thinktank · #13 Post by **thinktank** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:35 pm

BillMorrow wrote:all of the above advice is well taken..

only one additional point..
the 15 inch SXGA+ is a flexview display..
MUCH wider angle of view..
i.e. those sitting beside you can read whats on your display..
and
better color..
and
as you already know, bigger and heavier..

i suggest not thinking about the HDD as these are now commoditized and thus very cheap and not a big factor in any buying decision unless you are impecunious..

also, i use acronis true image to archive my entire HDD to external drives..
(usually older PATA 60gig 80gig and 100gig drives from former thinkpads)..

welcome to the thinkpad owners club..

Thanks a lot for all the input.

Does Acronis have any advantages over Partition Magic 8?

Geary · #14 Post by **Geary** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:51 am

thinktank wrote:5. Can Linux be installed as a second system next to XP with using the Microsoft boot manager while keeping the rescue partition functional?

Use the free VMware Player and install Linux in a virtual machine. Much better solution than dual-booting.

EOMtp · #15 Post by **EOMtp** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:55 am

thinktank wrote:Does Acronis have any advantages over Partition Magic 8?

Yes; especially since their overlapping functionalities are analogous to the ovelapping functionalities of a hammer and a screwdriver! A hammer can be a very effective screwdriver, but ... Acronis is a backup utility; Partition Magic 8 is a partition management utility.

thinktank · #16 Post by **thinktank** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:26 am

EOMtp wrote:
thinktank wrote:Does Acronis have any advantages over Partition Magic 8?
Yes; especially since their overlapping functionalities are analogous to the ovelapping functionalities of a hammer and a screwdriver! A hammer can be a very effective screwdriver, but ... Acronis is a backup utility; Partition Magic 8 is a partition management utility.

Excellent point! I was thinking of the other old Powerquest tool: Drive Image (which I think is now owned by Symantec and merged into Ghost?).

EOMtp · #17 Post by **EOMtp** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:18 am

PowerQuest's Drive Image 2002 was a phenomenally good package. It still is and works perfectly with Windows XP. You are correct that it was bought by Symantec, "merged" with Ghost, and perverted into a package which preserves none of original's elegance and svelt nature.

Acronis TrueImage is the modern version of Drive Image 2002. The primary differences are in the way TrueImage operates "on the fly" within Windows XP without requiring restart, backs to any device, local or networked, and has options for incremental and differential backups. Thus it is more "complex" than Drive Image, but no less elegant.

Nonetheless, if you have Drive Image and you use it, you will find it hard to part with it completely, even if you try the great product by Acronis.

thinktank · #18 Post by **thinktank** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:42 am

irfan wrote:I have a T60 with model number 2007C4U. It is a tiny 14.1" SXGA+ I personally like the 14.1" SXGA+ screen. Before I bought it I thought that the resolution was too high because I usually do a lot of reading. But the screen turned out to be just right. I have posted a lot of pictures of the screen with text on the screen on another place. You may check them from http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=57417

Thanks for the excellent pictures. I am almost 100% certain that I will go with the 14". Your pictures certainly helped with that as well.
Honestly: looks like a pretty "normal" screen to me. Are you using enlarged fonts and other adjusted settings?

irfan · #19 Post by **irfan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:56 am

for the pdf files, I set the acrobat to adjust the view such that the width of the screen is filled (I do this on any screen anyway). I didn't use large fonts. The font size for the website pictures are the normal size fonts too.

liquid_sonata · #20 Post by **liquid_sonata** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:29 pm

hi,

i've used a flexview t42p for two years, and i've been using a t60 for about two weeks now.

at first i hated the sxga+ screen! i thought it washed out, and the vertical viewing angles bothered me - i'd often have to move the screen back and forth to optimize the colors.

and watching dvd movies on the t60 is noticeably worse in color reproduction and sharpness than on my t42p. but i have a program called powerdvd which helps since it lets you adjust color settings for dvd playback, so it's almost a non-issue.

but now i love my 14.1" sxga+. i've gotten acclimated to it. for e-mailing, internet surfing, word processing and number crunching the screen is excellent in my opinion, and this is coming from an ex-flexview user (i don't play games, so i wouldn't know how good of a performer it is in this field).

and the size is noticeably smaller than the 15", which is a huge plus for me; a previous poster got it right when he called the flexview version "unwieldy", at least vis-a-vis the 14.1" version.

for all users who have a problem with reading small fonts on high-resolution screens, might i suggest using trackpoint in conjunction with the magnifying glass tool? i've personally found it to be extremely easy to use and extremely helpful.

edit: i should also mention that i have 20/20 vision.

asiafish · #21 Post by **asiafish** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:32 pm

I had an SXGA+ 14" T42p and had no issues with the screen resolution whatsoever, and I'm nearsighted. It wasn't the most vibrant LCD nor did it have the best color, but text size was just fine.

thinktank · #22 Post by **thinktank** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:44 pm

Thanks again to everyone! This was all very helpful. I can't wait now for my new 14" SXGA+ TP to come in. I'll be back with more questions...

#23 Post by **archer6** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:08 pm

thinktank wrote:Purpose: grad school, general use, work, some multimedia while traveling (basic video, photo and music editing) - but mostly grad school daily use. It will run Windows and a university version of Linux (Fedora based) as a dual boot.

Considering your vision, I would highly suggest you at least look at a 15" flexview display before you make your purchase. Especially if you are going to be using this computer daily as you state above.

I have both the 14" and 15" versions and find (especially with Linux dual boot) that the 15" is _so much better & easier on the eyes_. When I place these two side by side on the desk, it's amazing just how little size difference there is. The weight difference is only .5 lbs. In addition, there is a huge difference in the sharpness, color depth, and brightness of the 15" flexview display. I carry my 15" everyday to client appointments and do not find it any more demanding to carry than the 14" that I carried for years. The extra screen size makes the SXGA+ a real pleasure to use and it certainly reduces the amount of scrolling one must do. As far as battery life, again I do not notice a reduction of any significance. I was convinced that I was buying a 14.1" until one of my clients bought the 15" flexview, and once I saw the stunning superiority of the IPS/Flexview technology I changed my mind. I am so happy that I did, as this advancement is especially noticeable when doing photo / video editing etc. I spend countless hours each day in front of the computer and find the 15" has reduced / eliminated the eye strain I used to experience. And by the way I have 20/20 and do not wear glasses or contacts.

Hope this helps...

thinktank · #24 Post by **thinktank** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:43 am

archer6 wrote:
thinktank wrote:Purpose: grad school, general use, work, some multimedia while traveling (basic video, photo and music editing) - but mostly grad school daily use. It will run Windows and a university version of Linux (Fedora based) as a dual boot.
Considering your vision, I would highly suggest you at least look at a 15" flexview display before you make your purchase. Especially if you are going to be using this computer daily as you state above.

I have both the 14" and 15" versions and find (especially with Linux dual boot) that the 15" is _so much better & easier on the eyes_. When I place these two side by side on the desk, it's amazing just how little size difference there is. The weight difference is only .5 lbs. In addition, there is a huge difference in the sharpness, color depth, and brightness of the 15" flexview display. I carry my 15" everyday to client appointments and do not find it any more demanding to carry than the 14" that I carried for years. The extra screen size makes the SXGA+ a real pleasure to use and it certainly reduces the amount of scrolling one must do. As far as battery life, again I do not notice a reduction of any significance. I was convinced that I was buying a 14.1" until one of my clients bought the 15" flexview, and once I saw the stunning superiority of the IPS/Flexview technology I changed my mind. I am so happy that I did, as this advancement is especially noticeable when doing photo / video editing etc. I spend countless hours each day in front of the computer and find the 15" has reduced / eliminated the eye strain I used to experience. And by the way I have 20/20 and do not wear glasses or contacts.

Hope this helps...

Hello archer,

yes, this does help. I am still pretty sure that the 14" SXGA+ may be the right choice, but nothing is written in stone yet. That's why I asked at the store if the 15" SXGA+ model is in fact a FlexView model, since I am still not clear if the 15" SXGA+ are ALWAYS FlexViews or not. When I talked to the sales person, it sounded as if both models that I could get are non- FlexView buit they did not have a floor model to verify. So I am waiting for an answer from the store about this.

So again: are the 15" SXGA+ ALWAYS FlexView screen whereas the 14" SXGA+ are NEVER?

dfumento · #25 Post by **dfumento** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:10 am

thinktank wrote:
dfumento wrote:Get the 14" SXGA+, but with only 512 MB RAM and then buy a 1GB stick of RAM from www.newegg.com for about $80 or less.
You'll save money and the extra RAM could be useful. Also, be certain to get a 3 year warranty.
Thanks for the advice. Can I mix and match like this? The machine comes with 512 and the store agreed to add another 512 stick for 60 something including putting it in for me. However, if I can add a 1GB stick myself and have a total of 1.5GB for 80 bucks, it seems like the better choice as long as two different sticks don't cause trouble...

Yes, you can buy the 1GB stick from www.newegg.com adding it to the 512 MB

#26 Post by **archer6** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:31 pm

thinktank wrote:Hello archer,
So again: are the 15" SXGA+ ALWAYS FlexView screen whereas the 14" SXGA+ are NEVER?

Greetings thinktank,
I obtained this data directly from IBM/Lenovo so the accuracy is assured, I copied and pasted this, so it's word for word out of their spec sheet.

14.1" (358.1mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color / 150 nits / anti-glare. 14.1" (358.1mm) SXGA+ (1400x1050) TFT color / 150 nits / anti-glare. 15.0" (358.1mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color / 150 nits / anti-glare

15.0" (381.0mm) SXGA+ (1400x1050) TFT color / 200 nits / anti-glare, FlexView display with wide viewing angle and high density using IPS technology

So as you can see, All 14.1" displays are just 150 nits brightness and non IPS/Flexview "old" technology. In addition, the 15" XGA are also only 150 nits and the "old" technology display.

The 15" SXGA+ is a brighter 200 nits and uses the latest IPS/Flexview technology. The difference is simply brilliant. I was in disbelief the first time I booted mine and witnessed the super wide viewing angle, the very even backlighting of the display and the readability outdoors. The degree of color saturation and overall richness is truly worth the modest size and weight increase. The corner to corner sharpness and clarity are very easy on the eyes. Working with Photoshop, video editing, and general graphics work is truly an enjoyable experience. The difference is night and day. My ThinkPads that are non IPS appear dull and washed out in comparison. And yet they stand on their own as very nice displays, it's only when they are side by side with the IPS is the difference so dramatic and very noticeable.

Belive me I must admit that prior to seeing this in person I was not only sceptical but reluctant to give up the 14.1" size and form factor. However having made the change now, there is no going back for me.

Finally just another bit of feedback for you, I have a 15" non IPS SXGA+ display on another ThinkPad and when compared side by side with the 15" SXGA+ IPS, we are truly comparing apples to apples from a standpoint of resolution and display size. Therefore I find the comparison the most fair as the only difference is IPS vs. non IPS, and the advantages of the IPS truly stand out. Because of the IPS, I can easily read fonts a few sizes smaller (like on the web) than I normally would be able to tolerate.

So in the final analysis, it's really about how important the display is to you and if it's worth it for reduced eye strain and comfortable / enjoyable computing.

thinktank · #27 Post by **thinktank** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:54 pm

archer6 wrote:
thinktank wrote:Hello archer,
So again: are the 15" SXGA+ ALWAYS FlexView screen whereas the 14" SXGA+ are NEVER?
Greetings thinktank,
I obtained this data directly from IBM/Lenovo so the accuracy is assured, I copied and pasted this, so it's word for word out of their spec sheet.

14.1" (358.1mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color / 150 nits / anti-glare. 14.1" (358.1mm) SXGA+ (1400x1050) TFT color / 150 nits / anti-glare. 15.0" (358.1mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color / 150 nits / anti-glare

15.0" (381.0mm) SXGA+ (1400x1050) TFT color / 200 nits / anti-glare, FlexView display with wide viewing angle and high density using IPS technology

So as you can see, All 14.1" displays are just 150 nits brightness and non IPS/Flexview "old" technology. In addition, the 15" XGA are also only 150 nits and the "old" technology display.

The 15" SXGA+ is a brighter 200 nits and uses the latest IPS/Flexview technology. [...]

Hello archer,

thanks again for theinput. Now I am really confused. Here is what the guy from the store emailed me back today:

"As of yet they have not arrived...I will check again this morning and let you know.

The T60 units do not come with Flexview. "

I am not sure if that is just wrong, if he referrs to the specific units that the university store orders or if Lenovo is maybe not quite clear about all this. I have to call the store tomorrow and talk to someone else. Even if the 15" is Flexview I will probably still go with the 14" but I would at least like being able to make an informed decision *sigh*

guYom · #28 Post by **guYom** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:17 pm

Hi Matt,

If I may suggest, rather than going by what the store tells you, I would simply ask for the model number (such 2623 D6U, etc.) and then go look it up on the lenovo site, you will get all the correct specs there.

By the way you may want to do a price check on one of the online retailer such as coastcentral.com -- sometimes you find very good deals there. There are other such places and official retailers, just to see how it compares to the price you are being offered at your school.

sugo · #29 Post by **sugo** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:48 pm

archer6 is right. No flexview for 14.1". Only 15" SXGA+ and UXGA have Flexview. This is true for T42, T43 and T60.

Check the tabook. It's the most accurate specs from IBM/Lenovo.

thinktank · #30 Post by **thinktank** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:14 am

guYom wrote:Hi Matt,

If I may suggest, rather than going by what the store tells you, I would simply ask for the model number (such 2623 D6U, etc.) and then go look it up on the lenovo site, you will get all the correct specs there.

By the way you may want to do a price check on one of the online retailer such as coastcentral.com -- sometimes you find very good deals there. There are other such places and official retailers, just to see how it compares to the price you are being offered at your school.

Hi guYom,

excellent point! I am not sure if the models that they sell have regular Lenovo model numbers since they are custom equipped for the school from what I understand. But I am going to ask.

I checked the online retailers already. From what I see, the university store can't be beaten - plus they pricematch anyway...

Thanks for the good ideas.

Need help with decision: which new T60?

Need help with decision: which new T60?

Re: Need help with decision: which new T60?

Re: Need help with decision: which new T60?

Re: Need help with decision: which new T60?

Re: Need help with decision: which new T60?

Re: Need help with decision: which new T60?

Who is online