Need help from anyone with a X61

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Antioch · #1 Post by **Antioch** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:27 am

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone with an X61 would be willing to do a little experiment for me (and everyone else). One thing I've been worried about with ThinkPads even since I upgraded from a T42 to a T60 is fan noise. To make a long story short I've done a million different tests and physical "fixes" (soldering and circuitry stuff) to try and fix the noise, but I've come to the conclusion that the fan's RPM modes are BIOS limited.

Here's where I need help. I'd love to pawn off my T60 and get an X61s but not until I can verify fan noise. I've read a review or two, they said the noise was low, until the fan kicked up - but fan noise is different to everyone. One way I'd like someone to test it for me is the following:

Get tpfancontrol and enable the manual control mode (if you've never used the program I'll tell you how). Then manually put the fan in mode 1, wait a few seconds for the fan RPM meter to measure the speed, then record it. Repeat for all fan speed settings 1-7. Then put tpfancontrol back in BIOS control mode. Let your computer idle so that the fan turns into the lowest, most silent mode you usually hear it idle in, then record the RPM.

Thats it! =)

The RPM data will be useful because it will let me know (a) what speed the BIOS sets the fan to idle at and (b) what possible modes I can force the fan to run at in the off chance that it decides to spin up and be loud.

My T42 had different RPMs per fan mode level than my T60. The T42 had lower RPMs for the same mode level and as such was much quieter. Oddly enough the T60's *first* fan setting was incredibly loud for "idling" and try as I might, that value is coded into the BIOS and the machine will fight tooth and nail to ensure the fan runs at that speed.

Sorry to have blabbered on. If anyone with an X61 could gather that data for me (should take no more than 10 minutes) I'd appreciate it very much.

Thanks

EDIT: To enable manual mode in TPfancontrol edit fancontrol.ini and change Active to 1.

kengetz · #2 Post by **kengetz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:53 pm

I've never heard the fan on my X61 tablet (can't speak for the X61s). It seems silent to me, and not much hot air blows out the side. The bottom gets quite warm, but not the handrest, at least, in my experience. I'm very sensitive to fan noise, and haven't been bothered by this at all. But that's just my experience... -- Ken

Antioch · #3 Post by **Antioch** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:03 pm

That's great news because I am sensitive to fan noise as well. interesting note about the palm rest not being warm - do you have wireless/wwan switched on?

gunston · #4 Post by **gunston** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:04 pm

interesting,
keep me updated too,
Keen on purchasing X61 soon.

info from this thread might helps

Xcotty · #5 Post by **Xcotty** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:35 pm

kengetz wrote:I've never heard the fan on my X61 tablet (can't speak for the X61s). It seems silent to me, and not much hot air blows out the side. The bottom gets quite warm, but not the handrest, at least, in my experience. I'm very sensitive to fan noise, and haven't been bothered by this at all. But that's just my experience... -- Ken

Ken, I've got the 61 tablet too. I live in a quiet environment. No idea how quiet, but my radioshack dB meter doesn't even register here. The X61 tablet doesn't make any noise at all. It also doesn't generate any noticeable heat. There are things that could be improved, but not those.
Xcotty

Antioch · #6 Post by **Antioch** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:57 pm

I'm very surprised because these comments fly directly in the face of other reviews I've read. Granted the other reviews were about the X61/s but the machines are all the same, are they not? The only difference is that the tablets have a tablet LCD and swivel (plus a slot for the pen).

Very very interesting.

Hopefully someone with an X61/s can run my test because it would be very interesting to see if the Tablets run cooler and more quietly than the regular X61's do. That might push a lot of people over the edge in their X61/s vs X61T decision.

Xcotty · #7 Post by **Xcotty** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:19 am

[quote="Antioch"]I'm very surprised because these comments fly directly in the face of other reviews I've read. Granted the other reviews were about the X61/s but the machines are all the same, are they not?"

I don't know if the tablet and standard are the same machine or not. I'd guess not if the reviews are so different. Tablet reviews make quite a point of the lack of heat . Anyway, I've just turned on the X61 tablet to see if I can hear it. This is a particularly quiet evening here in the mountains. We don't have any fan-driven appliances in the house...some nights there is slightest sound of wind in the pines, but tonight there was a mild rain, the air is heavy, moist, and stil.....and there is very little or no noise out there. In spite of this, I cannot hear the fan on the tablet without actually holding my ear directly against the case. Nor is there noticeable heat after 15 minutes on battery. Though that might change after a few hours.
Xcotty ......... X61 tablet, T60p, T23, A30p, A31.....all in use today

Jackboot · #8 Post by **Jackboot** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:53 am

Hey there...sorry for the delay, I was out of town the last 2 days picking up my notebook. I will try to do your test tomorrow morning.

I also have an X60s that I can compare the fan noise with.

I'm into silent computing (have 2 fanless PCs) and understand your hate for PC noise! The X60s is very very quiet IMO. I have not owned a more quiet notebook.

Antioch · #9 Post by **Antioch** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:13 am

Glad to hear it. I was discouraged when I switched up to a T60 from a T42 - the T60 BIOS keeps the fan idling at too high an RPM, such that it sounds like Im playing a mild 3d game on the T42. I began to dislike it so much that at work I asked for a T41 instead of a T60 just so I didn't have to deal with the fan noise! Haha.

With my T60 I did a lot of tests to try and see if I could fix the noise. I opened the machine up and tried putting a variable resistor in series with the fan (to lower the operational voltage of the fan and slow the RPM) but it didn't work! The reason was that the BIOS wanted the fan to run at a certain RPM and kept raising the voltage as I raised the resistance until it saw the proper RPM --- and that's the reason why I'm asking about possible fan RPM modes you can put it in, heh.

Anyways, I really appreciate your help and eagerly await your reply. But most importantly: don't forget to have fun with your new toy

PS - Also, when you get a chance can you verify whether or not the Turbo Memory and WAN sockets are installed on your motherboard?

Jackboot · #10 Post by **Jackboot** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:33 pm

Well so far I've had time to take the keyboard and casing off to take a peak at the motherboard.

I'm a bit dissapointed that Lenovo actually did not solder a 2nd connector to the motherboard! I specifically ordered without turbo memory "knowing" that I can always just install it myself. Not true! there is only one PCIe slot and it is taken up by the wifi card. I suppose you could solder the connector yourself but this is a completely unnecessary hack and would likely void warranty. Tsk tsk Lenovo...how much was saved by not solering on the 2nd connector? Like $0.05?

As I expected, there is no fan installed since I did not order WAN. This is preferred since the fan apparently does very little to keep the palmrest heat down but does add noise and additional power consumption. For those that have said they are interested in adding the 2nd fan onto the motherboard, this will not be possible for those without advanced soldering equipment and skill. Take a look at the pictures to see what I mean.

PS: How the hell does the keyboard connector remove from the motherboard? I didn't want to force it, Lenovo's literature doesn't explicity say, and it wasn't clear from simply looking at the connection.

Here are some pictures I took:

Note from Moderator: No warning in the subject line = no in-line images.

Antioch · #11 Post by **Antioch** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:45 pm

It should just "lift up" and unplug... Sorry I can't explain it better. Just try to lift it straight up, not at an angle. I believe you can just pull that clear plastic at the end that bends back over the end up and it should unplug.

That sucks about the missing header for the 2nd fan and for the 2nd PCIe slot. But I'm not sure if Turbo Memory is worth it or not.

Thanks for the pics! I look forward to more information =)

#12 Post by **tomh009** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:32 pm

Where is the second fan supposed to mount/connect?

Antioch · #13 Post by **Antioch** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:42 pm

Look at the 3rd (bottom picture). Find the speaker (its the black box in the center bottom of the computer. Look where it connects to the motherboard. Directly above it's plug is another white rectangle of the same size. I believe that is where the second fan plugs into - well, thats where a header should be for the 2nd fan to plug into. But it doesn't look that difficult to attach one to those 3 solder pads that are exposed.

See this image for a picture with the fan installed and compare:
http://www.tpuser.idv.tw/articleimages/ ... pic-45.jpg

Ah, one thing to factor in for the noise, heat, and power efficiency of the machine as compared to an X60 is whether or not the X61 is running Vista. Vista in it's current form, is not too good at power efficiency, and by extension heat, and be extension fan noise. -Just one thing to keep in mind.

rek · #14 Post by **rek** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:13 am

I too would be interested in this info, for both tablet and non-tablet versions

It's worth doing Tom's test twice; once when docked onto the Ultrabase, and another with the bare laptop; and to note the BIOS/embedded controller firmware version.

The fan control behaviour is different when docked (on my X60s, when docked, it would kick up straight from off to mid RPM speed, rather than first to the low RPM speed)

Jackboot · #15 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:59 am

Antioch wrote: Vista in it's current form, is not too good at power efficiency, and by extension heat, and be extension fan noise. -Just one thing to keep in mind.

I have read this statement made many many times and was worried that my X61s with Vista was going to be a dog compared to my X60s for battery life. This does not appear to be the case from my limited testing so far! BTW, I haven't even tinkered with the new "battery stretch" feature yet either.

After adjusting the power settings for a customised "max battery" setting, my thinkpad power manager read 10:40 when idling, unplugged, and wireless off. During light surfing / normal usage it read 8:10.

Also, I don't think its my imagination - the palmrest feels cooler after using it compared to my X60s. There is a power setting on the X61s battery manager to adjust the wireless card for max performance --> max battery (with a few steps in between). On max battery the palmrest feels significantly cooler than the X60s palmrest to me. I have the Intel 3945abg card in both notebooks.

In summary, if anything, vista seems to have much better control vs. XP for tweeking battery settings.

Antioch · #16 Post by **Antioch** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:33 am

Interesting find, Jackboot. Now that I know the palmrest can be not so hot, the only thing holding me back is fan noise. I look forward to your findings! Thanks!

Jackboot · #17 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:03 pm

FYI, I'm going to try to do those fan tests today.

Antioch · #18 Post by **Antioch** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:28 pm

Great

Thanks in advance

Jackboot · #19 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:21 pm

TPFanControl results:

Manual Mode
7: no change from 6
6: 4570 rpm (this is as loud as it gets and is tolerable IMO)
5: no change from 3
4: no change from 3
3: 3900 rpm (first time additional noise is noticeable - still quiet)
2: no change from 1
1: 3415 rpm (essentially inaudible with ambient noise in my home)

The above rpms vary ~50ish rpms +/-
It seems that there are only 3 actual speed settings: low (1, 2), medium (3, 4, 5), and high (6, 7).

I do not recall getting fan noise at the 'high' level while using my X61s for the last couple days. It seems that some hefty processing needs to be done to get the fan to kick on in 'high' mode.

BIOS controlled mode
***note that this will vary depending on your settings in the Thinkpad or Vista power management!

I have my plugged-in setting set to "max performance" under "optimize fan control to:". While plugged in and idling my rpm reads at 3900 rpm ('medium' speed). I suppose this could vary between 'low' and 'medium' while doing normal tasks.

I'm glad I did this test - I hadn't previously used TPFanControl but will use it now I think. The "smart fan control config" setting (in V 0.21) over-rides the default BIOS setting and automatically keeps the fan lower (but the CPU warmer) if you wish.

EDIT: I don't know a lot about TPFanControl, but it looks like there is one setting above 'high' (let's call it 'max') which is beyond level 7. This is achieved by putting the fan level at '64'. This puts the fan at 5000+ rpms and is as absolutely loud as it can get. It is still significantly more quiet than when the fan on my old Z60t would kick on while idling.

Antioch · #20 Post by **Antioch** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:32 pm

Thats a very informative post, Jackboot. Thanks.

I do, however, find myself wondering about the "low" speed fan noise. With my T60 she idles in "medium" and even if I use TPfancontrol to force her to "low" she is still audible (at 3000RPM). Of course, depending on which fan you use the same RPM will produce different noise. You said that it's inaudible with the ambient noise in your house. What does this consist of?

How often does the machine kick up into "medium" mode on it's own (BIOS setting)? What are you doing when it goes to medium? If you are simply web browsing does the machine stay in low? During daily tasks how much of the time is the machine in low (estimation is fine

).

Sorry to ask these difficult questions. I am concerned with fan noise a great deal since I was swindled by Lenovo with my T60 - and I don't wish to be kicked in the stomach again. I'm sure you understand as you're also a lover of silent PCs

So, overall are you happy with the noise level of the machine?
The reason I ask is because, it's all well and good that in windows I can force the machine to run in low and receive blissful inaudibility. However, I also run linux and to my knowledge there is no tpfancontrol or any similar program to help limit fan speed (voltage).

Anyways, again: thank you so much for you help! Hopefully your answers to these questions will push me over the edge into buying an X61s

PS - I've noticed 'max' on my T60 as well. It's odd that when you set it so high it unlocks a 'secret' mode. Heh.

Jackboot · #21 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:02 pm

Antioch wrote:Thats a very informative post, Jackboot. Thanks.

I do, however, find myself wondering about the "low" speed fan noise. With my T60 she idles in "medium" and even if I use TPfancontrol to force her to "low" she is still audible (at 3000RPM). Of course, depending on which fan you use the same RPM will produce different noise. You said that it's inaudible with the ambient noise in your house. What does this consist of?

I'm willing to bet that the specific fan used in the X61s is much less robust than the fan in the T60. We know for certain that it is a less robust cooling solution compared with the X61 (non-s).

My home is very quiet but of course this is a subjective measurement. I live alone and have no noise-making appliances running aside from my fridge. The only noise of any sort comes from outside - local traffic on a dead-end street.

Right now the fan is on 'medium' and is inaudible because the fridge in the next room is running. Otherwise it would be barely audible.

Antioch wrote: How often does the machine kick up into "medium" mode on it's own (BIOS setting)? What are you doing when it goes to medium? If you are simply web browsing does the machine stay in low? During daily tasks how much of the time is the machine in low (estimation is fine ).

Sorry to ask these difficult questions. I am concerned with fan noise a great deal since I was swindled by Lenovo with my T60 - and I don't wish to be kicked in the stomach again. I'm sure you understand as you're also a lover of silent PCs

I think it is impossible to give much useful information here...the BIOS setting just dictates how hard the fan runs in order to keep the CPU at a specified temperature. So how often the fan comes on will vary with the ambient temperature where you are located and what tasks you are performing. It is hot here right now (28 celcius outside, unknown temperature inside my home) and I'm doing basic Internet browsing and the fan is staying on medium.

When autumn and winter rolls around the inside temperature will stay in the low 20s and I'm willing to bet the fan won't come out of 'low' for our 8 months of winter

[/quote]

Antioch wrote: So, overall are you happy with the noise level of the machine?
The reason I ask is because, it's all well and good that in windows I can force the machine to run in low and receive blissful inaudibility. However, I also run linux and to my knowledge there is no tpfancontrol or any similar program to help limit fan speed (voltage).

Anyways, again: thank you so much for you help! Hopefully your answers to these questions will push me over the edge into buying an X61s

PS - I've noticed 'max' on my T60 as well. It's odd that when you set it so high it unlocks a 'secret' mode. Heh.

Overall I'm definitely happy with the noise level of the machine. Even on 'high' the fan level is acceptable, although I would obviously prefer the other 2 lower settings.

...just don't kill me if you end up buying an X61s and my definition of 'acceptable' and 'inaudible' is different from yours!

Antioch · #22 Post by **Antioch** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:29 pm

Heh, I won't kill you. I know that the perception of sound intensity depends on the listener. I just wanted a rough estimate.

I appreciate it.

Did you ever get the keyboard to come off?

What other ThinkPad machines do you have? (If any)

atarimaster · #23 Post by **atarimaster** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:52 pm

wow .... i didn't even know my x61 had a fan

Antioch · #24 Post by **Antioch** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:34 pm

atarimaster: Haha. It's that silent?

Jackboot · #25 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:53 pm

Antioch wrote:Heh, I won't kill you. I know that the perception of sound intensity depends on the listener. I just wanted a rough estimate.

I appreciate it.

Did you ever get the keyboard to come off?

What other ThinkPad machines do you have? (If any)

I currently have an X60s as well as an X61s and I just sold a Z60t last night. I haven't tried to get the keyboard off - no need since there isn't a 2nd PCI-e slot anyway! I would if there was an available 2nd PCI-e slot and I could install an Intel turbomemory card.

smoothoperator · #26 Post by **smoothoperator** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:44 pm

I have both a T60p and X61T..... The T60p makes loud fan noises the x61T does not make much if any noise, you do not even need TPFANCONTROL since its so quiet. The X61's fan is running most of the time and you will not notice the noise. The x61 is very quiet you won't be dissapointed.

I have read somewhere that the WWAN X61's have a 2nd fan, I have some vents in my X61T on the right side, but I have never noticed any sort of airflow coming out of there or even noise, so I am not sure if this would make a difference.

Antioch · #27 Post by **Antioch** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:29 am

X61T does not have the second fan, only X61/s with WWAN have the second fan.

I'm glad everyone says good things about the fan noise on the X61 series.

Jack, where did you sell your Z60 at? If I get the X61s I'd consider dumping the T60...

Jackboot · #28 Post by **Jackboot** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:13 am

Antioch wrote:X61T does not have the second fan, only X61/s with WWAN have the second fan.

I'm glad everyone says good things about the fan noise on the X61 series.

Jack, where did you sell your Z60 at? If I get the X61s I'd consider dumping the T60...

I sold my Z60t by posting on a few local forums. I prefer to sell anything valuable locally. Enough people use the Internet now to buy things that there isn't much need to use eBay or the like if you live in a larger city IMO.

MayaTlab · #29 Post by **MayaTlab** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:02 am

Do you think the x61 could be less noisy than the x61s ? I think the cooling system is more efficient, isn't it ?

Antioch · #30 Post by **Antioch** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:09 pm

I think you can't make that assumption. Yes, the fan looks a little bit larger than the X60s fan, but that doesn't mean much.

I've looked at two different T60 fans before (two types exist) and used them both - they produced identical noise levels.

You really can't predict a fan's operational noise by how big it is.

Need help from anyone with a X61

Need help from anyone with a X61

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