Guys read this about the dead pixels issue...

[JohnV]

Ok I spoke to an IBM customer service rep today about the dead pixel issue on my new T42. He stated to me that these units should NOT be leaving the factory with any dead pixels at all! I would suggest anyone here that has a dead pixel call IBM and let them know that this issue is happening and it is NOT acceptable! Since I Already RMA'ed this unit and shipped it back at my own expense before I talked to them about this issue I am not going to make a big deal about it this time, but if the next unit comes with a dead pixel I am going to call them and demand that they resolve the issue at their own expense not mine! It’s not like we get 30%, 40% or 50% off the price for one or more dead pixels. We deserve perfect units...please call and let them know this!!

John

[Conmee]

JohnV,

IBM won't do anything about this because they can't control quality of LCD manufacturers, and sadly, because there are so few LCD manufacturers, OEM's like IBM are at the mercy of those manufacturers, not the other way around. So there's no recourse for IBM but to sell what they're supplied with.

But I think, as with all things in the tech industry, it's a matter of people being desensitized to crappy/buggy software, hardware that needs constant 'tweaking', and listed specifications that are generally 'best case scenarios' (e.g. hard drive sizes, wireless throughput, disk speeds, modem speeds, refresh rates and response times of LCDs, etc). The tech industry as a whole is a big, ongoing march toward the bleeding edge, and the consumer is trampled under foot, as a result. For most manufacturers, the costs of dealing with RMAs and replacing LCDs for the folks that DO complain is much cheaper than ensuring that all LCDs come out picture perfect without defects from the factory. There's simply not enough people complaining, and quite a few folks, including some on this site, 'learn to live' with stuck/dead pixels, washed out/inconsistent LCD backlighting, uneven keyboards, squeaky palmrests, clacking hard drives, loose batteries, erratic buzzing fans, USB ports that squeal with a high-pitched electronic buzz, etc etc etc... (not to pick on my beloved IBM, despite all the complaints, it's still light years ahead of the rest of the notebook manufacturers, IMHO). It's one of the same reasons manufacturers, not just the tech industry, use "mail-in rebates"... because companies like Dell and others know that people are so lazy or complacent or forgetful, that they can sell you something at a 'lower' advertised price, and know that less than 50% of the buying population will not bother with jumping through the hoops necessary to redeem the rebate.

But none of this is an IBM problem, per se. It's an industry problem, and it's the consumers' problem, collectively. Until alot more folks complain about all the usability and quality issues that confront the tech industry, nothing much will change. The upside is that components and computer equipment, and the power you can get in a notebook computer these days, is dirt cheap compared to the $2000 my family spent on a fully loaded TI-99/4a in 1982 that had a whopping 48k of RAM and a floppy drive, and 10" color monitor.


Daniel.

[JohnV]

My point was why do I have to pay to ship it back to them. They need to pay for return shipping for these pixel issues. If we are a small group that complains so be it...I want my unit perfect and I will tell them that..even if it just me compaining!

John

[Conmee]

My point was why do I have to pay to ship it back to them. They need to pay for return shipping for these pixel issues. If we are a small group that complains so be it...I want my unit perfect and I will tell them that..even if it just me compaining!

John

John,

You're preachin' to the choir... lol... I already RMA'd my T42 because of stuck/dead pixel, among other things. And I agree, it would be nice to have paid return postage for the small group of unsatisfied folks like us... but it's better than a no-return policy, or worse, a 15% restock fee, like other manufacturers charge.

Daniel.

[cynic]

Ok I spoke to an IBM customer service rep today about the dead pixel issue on my new T42. He stated to me that these units should NOT be leaving the factory with any dead pixels at all! I would suggest anyone here that has a dead pixel call IBM and let them know that this issue is happening and it is NOT acceptable! Since I Already RMA'ed this unit and shipped it back at my own expense before I talked to them about this issue I am not going to make a big deal about it this time, but if the next unit comes with a dead pixel I am going to call them and demand that they resolve the issue at their own expense not mine! It’s not like we get 30%, 40% or 50% off the price for one or more dead pixels. We deserve perfect units...please call and let them know this!!

John

That customer service rep was just appeasing you. IBM (like every other company) has an official policy based on VESA standards. IBM will not pay to have less than the official policy fixed, but they will let you return it. It's all in the print on the website on the return/refund policy.l

As for your expense at shipping it back and forth, it's negligible. As Daniel said, at least they let you do this and without a restock fee.

Do what you have to do to get a perfect unit (I would too), but there is no reason to feel outraged over this.

[kangazoom]

i am thinking about purchasing a thinkpad, and i called a sales rep about a week ago. he told me the same thing -- that thinkpads shouldn't be shipped out if they have any dead pixels. maybe the sales reps are just trying to appease customers and would-be customers... but i don't think calling ibm up and complaining a little bit would HURT unless you're on a very tight schedule.

[JohnV]

Bottom line is complain about it period. There should not be any dead pixels on the unit. You guys are quoting IBMs warantee policy about it needing a certain number of pixels to be fixed. No where there does it say anything about a unit you just received? If you want a unit with dead pixels be my guest and keep it. I for one will be complaining...the stupid thing is I am complaining for something I should of had in the first place...a perfect unit!

John

[Conmee]

Well, I complained and did my job... lol... sent a system back with bad pixels, ordered a new one. If EVERYONE with a pixel issue sent their machines back without fail, THEN it might get someone's attention, but until then, we don't have the critical mass to make a difference. But that won't stop me from complaining when appropriate.


Daniel.

[BillMorrow]

now i REALLY should be deleting SPAM's and reading and replying to, email..

but here is a quick note:
1. stuck pixels suck, for most, not all, users..

2. when you buy from me and pay full price or near full price i WILL check out your new thinkpad for stuck on or dead pixels..
in other words i will cherry pick a machine..
to the best of my ability and at that moment in time..
with the knowledge that a pixel CAN pop up later..

3. if i get a thinkpad with stuck pixels i DO offer it to customers who do not care, at a substantial discount..

[mini-rant]
4. IRT best case specs being used in place of reality: ibm is caught by others who use best case rather than average..
it is a sales thing and once one does it EVERYONE must do it just to stay competitive.. it is YOU who shop by numbers who are the root cause..
put absolute performance and "gimmee yer best price" criteria in proper perspective.. buy based on reputation for quality and service.. then add in price and other important criteria in decending order..
NOT on raw numbers..
theres more, but the phone is ringing..
[end mini-rant]

[Nabeel]

But I think, as with all things in the tech industry, it's a matter of people being desensitized to crappy/buggy software, hardware that needs constant 'tweaking',

So would you buy a Mercedes with a non-fully functioning engine and some of the upholdstry is peeling off?

I think it's the opposite, people need to demand tighter standards. It's the manufacturers who are getting lazy thinking they can rip people off. I'm not saying IBM is at fault, but it's the entire industry. Quality is sagging everywhere, and people have to stop accepting it and saying "Well that's how it is..."

[Conmee]

4. IRT best case specs being used in place of reality: ibm is caught by others who use best case rather than average..
it is a sales thing and once one does it EVERYONE must do it just to stay competitive.. it is YOU who shop by numbers who are the root cause..

Bill,

I respectfully disagree with the last line in the quote above... customers being the root cause is, excuse the French, [censored]. We can all go through the history of tech or any other industry (automakers and incentives, anyone?) where marketing shills start propping up numbers and force-feeding the public finely crafted messages that these stats are the differentiators in their products, and then the manufacturers [censored] and moan that the general public views computers and tech as commodities?!?!

Hell, Intel has been telling everyone for YEARS that MHZ is KING!!!! Then AMD comes around a few years ago and calls Intel on the B.S. and Intel's marketing spin goes into effect and people scoff at AMD... NOW... who is embracing the MHZ isn't everything mantra? Intel is, because they put THEMSELVES between a rock and a hard play with the MHZ is king message, and now they aren't able to crank out higher clock rates as fast as before, as they've conditioned the marketplace to expect... and if you think individuals are bad, corporations are even worse at the speeds/feeds/lowprice game. And Intel is just one example.... everyone's reliance on benchmarks and specs was FUELED by the tech industry and they force-fed the public with all this, and now the buying PUBLIC is to blame? Hardly.

I for one shop for total value, which includes all the things you mention, from reputation to quality to value add like ThinkVantage Technologies, innovative form-factor, etc. If I didn't I'd be looking at Dell or Alienware or some other Tier 2 supplier. And I'm sure a good many folks on this board would be looking elsewhere too, if we were all sheep to tech specs. But the fact that tech sales is a difficult/cut-throat business is due in large part to the expectations manufacturer's have created and fed the consumer, not the other way around. So if it's a pain in the [censored] for IBM, Dell, HP, and others to differentiate, and to have to continue to rely on specious numbers, well... they only have themselves to blame. Until OEMs change their marketing messages to sell total value rather than tout GHz, MHz, MB, RPM, Kbps, DPI, etc, and the more the buying public becomes better educated about technology and becomes a more savvy buyer as regards value, not just price, things aren't going to get better.

My two cents.

Daniel.

ADMIN NOTE:
(i get to do this 'cuz i AM the admin )
uhmm, ok, can we agree that many customers contribute to "reality inflation" of spec numbers?

(Sorry for inserting this IN your post but there were too many follow on posts and hanging my reply at the end would be connfusing)

Bill..

[Conmee]

But I think, as with all things in the tech industry, it's a matter of people being desensitized to crappy/buggy software, hardware that needs constant 'tweaking',

So would you buy a Mercedes with a non-fully functioning engine and some of the upholdstry is peeling off?

I think it's the opposite, people need to demand tighter standards. It's the manufacturers who are getting lazy thinking they can rip people off. I'm not saying IBM is at fault, but it's the entire industry. Quality is sagging everywhere, and people have to stop accepting it and saying "Well that's how it is..."

Nabeel,

Please don't quote me out of context... lol

I AGREE with your sentiment (read the rest of the paragraph where I mention the consumer getting the short-end of the stick, and not doing anything about it)... Hell, I'm one of the minority of complaining consumers, who RMA'd a ThinkPad because of dead pixels, and let IBM sales and support know I was dissatisfied. In that quote above, I was just offering up my opinion of why, by and large, folks DON'T complain, and why the tech industry has little incentive to make quality Job One (as Ford Motor Co. would say).

Daniel.

[Nabeel]

So would you buy a Mercedes with a non-fully functioning engine and some of the upholdstry is peeling off?

I think it's the opposite, people need to demand tighter standards. It's the manufacturers who are getting lazy thinking they can rip people off. I'm not saying IBM is at fault, but it's the entire industry. Quality is sagging everywhere, and people have to stop accepting it and saying "Well that's how it is..."

Nabeel,

Please don't quote me out of context... lol

I AGREE with your sentiment... Hell, I'm one of the minority of complaining consumers, who RMA'd a ThinkPad because of dead pixels, and let IBM sales and support know I was dissatisfied. In that quote above, I was just offering up my opinion of why, by and large, folks DON'T complain, and why the tech industry has little incentive to make quality Job One (as Ford Motor Co. would say).

Daniel.

Sorry, it got cut out. I should stop skimming too.

I also RMA'd mine because of a stuck pixel. But yeah, people need to complain alot more so it actually gets fixed, and not just complain, but do something about it..

[Conmee]

Nabeel,

Agreed.

Daniel.

[JaneL]

Do none of you realize that individual purchasers complaining about this issue are mere flyspecks to not only IBM but any other PC manufacturer? You buy one system. Corporations buy or lease them by the thousands at a time, and if anyone outside the executive suite complains about a dead pixel, they're ignored and rightly so. It's just not cost effective on either end of the equation to sift through them.

All this angst over nothing. In the long run, this whole issue is just not that important, guys, because IBM has a very liberal return policy. If you don't like the screen you got, send it back within 30 days and get another one, or buy it from Bill and have him handpick one for you that is perfect.

Oh yes, and while I'm at it, please stop the massive quotebacks. Here's a hint - it's all in the same thread! Just quote a line or two as a pointer not half a page of nested quotes from 4 people. Thanks!

[eriqesque]

Oh yes, and while I'm at it, please stop the massive quotebacks. Here's a hint - it's all in the same thread! Just quote a line or two as a pointer not half a page of nested quotes from 4 people. Thanks!

God this is getting old.

[CantStopNow]

Hey, for those of us with low bandwidth connections, every bit counts!

[eriqesque]

Hey, for those of us with low bandwidth connections, every bit counts!

And it's still getting old.

[andyk]

This has nothing to do with dead pixels or "root cause"

Daniel,

Intel has never said "MHZ is KING". The reasons for cancelling Tejas are complicated, but I don't believe frequency scaling is the main cause:

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read ... id=3042187

Anyway, the point is moot. Because we are all buying ThinkPads, we are all getting Intel inside.

[benz]

Oh yes, and while I'm at it, please stop the massive quotebacks. Here's a hint - it's all in the same thread! Just quote a line or two as a pointer not half a page of nested quotes from 4 people. Thanks!

He has a point, the overuse of nested quotes is a waste of space, regardless of your connection. But seriously, nonny must not be able to even load modern websites on the internet (IBM.com, microsoft.com, cnn.com, etc.) if he is complaining about this!

[Nabeel]

>>But seriously, nonny must not be able to even load modern websites on the internet (IBM.com, microsoft.com, cnn.com, etc.) if he is complaining about this!

I think someone said before she is using a text-based browser

Just give her a break, it's not that difficult..

[Conmee]

Who has low-bandwidth connections these days, unless you're in a Third World country... lol ;->

Andyk,

As for Intel, they've sure as heck implied it for more than a decade... I'll send you all the press releases and Intel Marketing Talking Heads crowing about how they got to 2GHz, then 3GHz, and pushing for 4GHz, always sure to let everyone know AMD was behind them, and that Apple was nowhere on the charts, despite completely different chip architectures. I didn't mean to single Intel out v. the rest of the industry, but let's face it: OEMs look at the market as one big opportunity, and the easier it is to lead the dogs to your dog food, the better. And this was never meant to be a Tejas discussion or a jab at Intel's product lines. I like Intel, believe me. Their marketing is just par for the course... Heck, even now, ask 9 of 10 people, and they'll tell you "Centrino" is the name of the CPU!!! lol Not necessarily Intel's fault, but does Intel differentiate Pentium M or Pentium M 745 from Centrino in the eyes of the consumer. Not really. Don't be surprised if "Centrino", which already has huge brand recognition, becomes the name of the Pentium M CPU in the future (always paired to wireless and a mobile chipset of course.. lol).


As for IBM, I like what they're doing with ThinkPads... they don't necessarily accentuate specs/speeds/feeds, other than to inform users... what IBM marketing focuses on is ThinkVantage technologies that add value over the life of ThinkPad ownership, things like security features, ease of use tools, durability, small/convenient form factor and the like... Gateway, Dell, and HPQ are still fighting the same old fight with "my screen is bigger than your screen" and "my shipping is freer than your shipping" lmao.

Anyhow, I think everyone here is a little more savvy than the common consumer. And the common consumers who do make their way in here, probably leave a lot more educated/informed about what they will purchase, IBM or otherwise.

And I really enjoy these forums, because we can all learn alot from each other, and get different perspectives... I know I have...

Take care,

Daniel.

[JaneL]

>God this is getting old.
>

Imagine how old this all gets trickling in over a cell phone connection. That's 14.4 by the way.

[Txiasaeia]

>God this is getting old.
>

Imagine how old this all gets trickling in over a cell phone connection. That's 14.4 by the way.

This is what you do. Use Opera and turn off images by pressing the <G> button. Or load up Lynx for Windows and browse all in text. I did this for 6 years on 14.4 and lived to tell about it. I can understand you requesting that images are kept to a minimum, but block quoting? That's a bit extreme.

[dclee012]

so on a text based browser, you can have pictures? interesting