Part interchangeability between T20, T21, T22 and T23

[portsample]

Hey all-
I've always been a fan of the T2x series of TP.
I have a T21 that was my wife's until it developed motherboard issues.
I am thinking about dropping in a new motherboard and faster processor as well as upgrading to a 1400x1050 resolution screen. Is there anything that I should know before starting on this venture? How interchangeable are parts in this series?

I am comfortable opening Thinkpads having swapped mobos, processors and screens in the past.

TIA for advice, wisdom and insight offered.

[rkawakami]

Off the top of my head, here's a quick rundown on the parts which are common between T20 to T23 systems:

- T20, T21 and T22 are basically the same - faster CPUs are the main difference; T23 is different enough in most respects
- T20-T22 share the same base plastics; T23 is different and thus you cannot install a T23 motherboard into a T20-T22 base - a couple of important differences are that the T20-T22 motherboards only have one USB port while the T23 motherboard has two and the ethernet interface is a separate daughter card in a T23, whereas the T20-T22 offered the ethernet interface on a MiniPCI card
- The memory panel from the T20-T22 will fit on the T23 base but not vice versa (the T23 panel has wider tabs)
- The memory modules are usually not compatible between T23 (PC133) and T20-T21 (normally PC100 - must be "low density"); it's possible that your T21 has PC133 modules and they could be used on a T23 motherboard, but you would be limiting the memory to 512MB (low density modules topped out at 256MB)
- The MiniPCI panel is common between the T20-T22 systems; the T23 is totally different
- The hard drive cover is interchangeable between all T2x systems
- The heatsink/fan assembly is common between T20-T22; T23 is different
- Keyboards are interchangeable between all T2x systems - keyboard bezels are not; T23 will not fit on earlier T2x systems
- Ultrabay devices are interchangeable (all systems implement the Ultrabay 2000 version)
- Ultrabay guide rail (the metal framework inside the base into which the Ultrabay device is inserted) is the same on all T2x systems
- Main and backup (CMOS) batteries are interchangeable; T30 batteries can be used in T2x but not the other way around
- Speaker assembly can be shared between all T2x systems
- LCD panels can be swapped between T2x systems, as long as the proper LCD cable is also used; XGA panel requires use of the XGA cable - same for SXGA+
- I believe that the lids can be freely swapped between all T2x systems

For definitive (???) answers, you can download a copy of the T2x Hardware Maintenance Manual and compare the FRUs (part numbers) of the various pieces:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4UYM3F

[portsample]

Very nice, thanks for the thorough rundown on major differences Ray. The chassis that I'll be working with is a T21, I'll likely order a T23 mobo and go from there with the intention of upgrading the panel to an SXGA+ and adding internal wifi. Thanks for the info about the fan: I'll now know to pick one up in advance.

Any thoughts on SXGA panels? Will SXGA panels for T30 and T4x units work in a T2x w/the proper cableing? TIA again.

[RealBlackStuff]

You cannot put a T23 mobo in a T20/T21/T22 chassis!
And you need a T2x SXGA+ LCD + cable + inverter, parts from any other models will NOT fit.

[rkawakami]

If your intention is to end up with an SXGA+, built-in factory wireless system using components from your existing T21, then I'm afraid you won't be able to use too many items. The keyboard, speakers, hard drive caddy (hard drive too if you can re-install Windows on it), battery and whatever Ultrabay devices you already have is about it. Yes, upgrading to a T23 motherboard will give you a 1.2Ghz PIII CPU and the capability to reach 1GB of memory but that will require new memory modules. Your T21 may already have PC133 modules and if it does, then they are "low density" versions and the largest that they can be are 256MB each. If they are PC100 then the T23 motherboard can't use them. You will have to use a T23 base (chassis) because of the aforementioned differences with the USB ports and MiniPCI/ethernet bay. A change of the base means that you would also need a T23 keyboard bezel (top portion of the base). It might be possible to hack (literally: cut or trim) the T21 bezel so that it fits atop the T23 base but there's bound to be a couple of places where the screw holes will not line up or not fit flush with the base. In changing to a T23 motherboard, if you want ethernet support then that requires the CDC (communications daughter card). On your T21, ethernet is supplied by the MiniPCI card; an ethernet only card or one which is combo'ed with the modem. Besides, since your goal is to have wireless, then that requires either the factory T23 modem/wireless combo card or an aftermarket (wireless only) MiniPCI card, so you can't use your existing MiniPCI card anyway. And speaking of wireless support, you will need the factory T23 lid with the antenna mounts; the T23 lid has plastic "windows" which allow the radio signals through - your T21 does not have these. Putting antennas into the lid without these windows means that your wireless coverage will probably be limited to the room where the wireless access point is installed. Lastly, as you mention that you want to upgrade to the SXGA+ panel then I'm assuming that your T21 has the XGA screen (some T21 systems did come with the 1400x1050 screen - those that have the 850Mhz CPU). That SXGA+ panel requires the use of a specific LCD ribbon cable, one that is not in your XGA T21 system.

So with all of these changes, I'd say you would be better off buying a complete wireless SXGA+ T23 system or putting one together by purchasing a working "parts" T23 base (without a display or maybe with a busted screen) and finding the screen and/or wireless lid separately. Any T21 or T22 system which came with the SXGA+ screen can be transferred onto the T23 motherboard and it will work, providing that you also use the ribbon cable that is attached to the SXGA+ display.

[RealBlackStuff]

If you are interested in a T23 with built-in wifi, PM me.

[jronald]

The T20-22 Palm rest can be made to work on the T23, the holes line up. But several on the "latches" on the left side dont properly fit. RBS and I tried several years ago. I have a couple of family members running them and they "ok" unless you really start looking and then you can see the left side is just not right.

Ron

[automobus]

What prevents screens from T30 (or maybe other models) from working in T2*? Is the cable connector in a different location, or do they have different plugs?

[automobus]

Let me warn you about a non-compatible part.

I tried using a Toshiba M a t s u s h i t a LTD141EM1X screen from a VAIO Z1. It ruined the T23 motherboard. mario_jr tired one in a T60 last year, so I thought it would be safe enough to try in T23.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=85818

The wrong screen made the motherboard lose its LCD output. It works just fine connected to an external display, but not the laptop LCD. I do not know if it is a blown fuse or a problem with the GPU itself. Unless you want to risk damaging your motherboard, do NOT connect a LTD141EM1X to your T23.

[skou]

The heatsink/fan on the T20 is different than the T22 one. They WILL interchange, but the later one is better. The later one has springs in the mounting screw holes, and will hold pressure against the CPU. (Just like the T23 does.) The T20 one had a gap, and required the rubber spacer between the CPU and heatsink.

steve

[RealBlackStuff]

The T22 base has a cooling duct (or heatpipe, whatever you may call it ) on the inside bottom underneath the CPU.
This is not present in T20/T21 and T23 bases.

[skou]

The T22 base has a cooling duct (or heatpipe, whatever you may call it ) on the inside bottom underneath the CPU.
This is not present in T20/T21 and T23 bases.

I think that all of the T20-22 series heatsinks had heatpipes. The T23 doesn't, though. The early ones had the "pad" which had that gap, which wasn't as good as sitting the heatsink right on the CPU.

The 23 has a fair amount of aluminum over the CPU, and really doesn't need the heatpipe. (In my {never to be} humble opinion.)

steve

[Harryc]

Are LCD bezels compatible between T20/21/22/23 ?

[skou]

Are LCD bezels compatible between T20/21/22/23 ?

Yes and no.

Because the "T23 with wireless" has the antennas in the sides of the screen, that is a completely different part. The bezel and the back are different.

The "T23 without wireless" is the same as the others. The back is different than the 20-22, but it is interchangable with them. There is a raised grid on the inside of the back, on the earlier models, that caused the "keyboard spots" on the screen. The grid was removed for the later version, which is why the later models don't have those spots on them.

The complete LCD is interchangable between all of them, except the wireless. If you use a wireless screen on a T20-22, the antenna wires are extra. If you use a non-wireless screen on a T23, you can't use the wi-fi.

steve

[Harryc]

Thanks Steve. I need an LCD bezel for a T23 lid that is factory wireless. Anyone know the FRU# ? The HMM only lists the complete cover asm FRU, which includes the cover and front bezel.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 99&start=0

[skou]

That is the single most difficult part to find, on any T2* series computer. Period.

steve

[RealBlackStuff]

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76334

[Harryc]

Don't understand your link RBS ...

[RealBlackStuff]

That's a weird one!
This is the working link, pointing to the correct forum/thread, except it has &view=next at the end
OK: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... &view=next
The same link without &view=next at the end goes to a T30 post. NO IDEA
NOT OK: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76334

[rkawakami]

This seems to be the proper URL: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76406

[RealBlackStuff]

I got my link using Harryc's Google-finder

[Harryc]

In case that link does not work in the future, per RBS -
LCD bezel for standard lids: 26P9381
LCD bezel for WiFi lids: 27L6727

There is an EBay seller that currently has a quantity of them ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0620138172

[skou]

In case that link does not work in the future, per RBS -
LCD bezel for standard lids: 26P9381
LCD bezel for WiFi lids: 27L6727

There is an EBay seller that currently has a quantity of them ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0620138172

I think I'd be leery of these. Same guy has a bunch of "T20 motherboards." The picture has a hole in the mobo to the right of the CPU socket, as big as a quarter or so, and that socket has a large square area in the center, with no pin holes. The lid doesn't have a screen in it, but there are wires for the wireless antennae.

I'd be willing to bet that there are 2 USB sockets, too.

If this guy is calling an obvious T23 mobo a T20, how can we be sure that these bezels are the right ones? (But then, he does have the computers that they would come from.)

steve

[Harryc]

I was wondering about that because I didn't think any T series before T23 had wireless. So I think that seller just doesn't know what he has. I'll let you know because I've already ordered a bezel and will most likely order a base from him too.

[skou]

Thanks Harry.

I sent him a message, inquiring if these were indeed T23s, because I'm also interested in them. I may get a few at that price.

Oh, the T23 was the only 2* built with wireless.

steve

[Harryc]

This turned out to be a total bust. The seller called and said he did not have the right LCD bezel after all, and he also cancelled the T23? base auction because they were wrong as well.

[skou]

If he did get the bezels from that T23 in the picture, he HAD the right bezel. Just didn't post the right info on the T20.

steve

[skou]

I just scanned what he has for sale, and I saw some "interesting" things.

He has a docking station, whicn I wouldn't mind having IF IT IS the right one. Picture looks like the one I have.

He put up a T23 LCD screen back, that wasn't even the right thing. Hinge holes were completely off. There were other ads listed that make me leery of buying from him. The pictures just don't match.

However, he did have 8 T2* keyboards for sale. Picture showed a T23. I'm just wondering. Did he really have those 8 computers? Are the screen bezels coming back? Can we get the mobos?

steve

[Harryc]

Steve,
I have his number if you want to give him a call and ask. When I spoke to him he didn't seem too sure about what he had, and he said he wasn't the one who put up the actual Ads...and that whomever did screwed him up. I think we're dealing with a drop-shipper here.

[cadillacmike68]

How much are these parts selling for (or how much are these sellers trying to get)??

There are working T23s on feebay right now minus the HDD for $25-40.

Unless you have a sentimental attachment to your T23 (or like taking it apart to fix) it might be cost effective to pick up a working machine minus the HDD.

I got one of the T23s and it even comes with a HDD (only 6GB so out it goes!)

Less than $40, complete. I'll post an update whe it actually arrives.