What's the benefit of moving on to a T42 and T43 over my T41

[ParatoOptimal]

I have a T41. Is it worth it to get a T42 or T43? What do I gain/lose with each model?
Thank you

[ZaZ]

The T43 tends to be less susceptible to the GPU flex issue than the T41 or T42, but it runs hotter and can be more noisy. T43 also has the 2010 hard drive error. The Radeon 9600 is a bit better than the X300 offered on the T43. For not much more money you can probably bump up to a T60, which is a better machine in most regards.

[poshgeordie]

Some T42p and T43's have the GPU and Southbridge chips bonded to the motherboard with clear epoxy glue rather than black, orange or red epoxy spots.

I mention this because they both suffer more from the SB becoming unsoldered (rather than the GPU), and to resolder it the epoxy must first be removed. This can only be done by grinding the chip off the board and replacing it with a new one - a big risk of damage to the board and I'm not sure if many repair companies are up to doing this.

I'm noted for being the forum pessimist and in general I understand they are quite reliable and long lived.

[RealBlackStuff]

T41 to T42 brings you nothing.
T41 to T43 brings you a faster CPU bus speed (533MHz FSB instead of 400), faster and cheaper RAM (DDR2 PC2-4200 instead of PC2700).
Only the T43p runs hot and has a noisy fan. The T43 with Intel and ATI X300 GPU run normal temps, especially the 15" models.
The 15" T43 models can have IPS screens with 1600x1200 resolution.
If the T43 develops any problems, it would be a loose Southbridge chip. Howvere this is extremely rare.
The 2010 error message is just a notification from the BIOS, that your hard disk is not approved by IBM.
Unless you run space-shuttle mission-critical applications, you can completely ignore that error message, which ONLY appears when you boot the laptop.
With some "surgery" you could even run a SATA hard disk in the HD bay, if you are so inclined.

The Radeon 9600 was used only in the T41p or T42p. The FireGL in the T43p can run circles around it.

Basically T43 is a newer generation of the T40/T41/T42.

If you go one generation higher again, you end up in the T60, which show very few problems, like FredGarvin said.
They have Core Duo or Core 2 Duo CPUs, more powerful System chips, slightly faster and more RAM (up to ~3.25GB) , and run SATA hard drives.
With C2D CPU you can run a 64-bit OS.
This is also the last series with standard 4:3 LCDs.

[lukee]

RealBlackStuff: is your reflow company providing services such like "surgery" in T43 (PATA to SATA mod)? If the surgery is successful, what are cons of missing AHCI mode support in T43's BIOS? Thanks.

[poshgeordie]

RealBlackStuff: is your reflow company providing services such like "surgery" in T43 (PATA to SATA mod)? If the surgery is successful, what are cons of missing AHCI mode support in T43's BIOS? Thanks.

I run the company - RBS is the USA side providing refurb'd boards to North American customers under The Board Room banner.

No we don't. I wasn't aware of such a mod except for using a suitable drive bay in place of the CD drive.

If there is such a motherboard-based mod I'd be interested in some details.

[dr_st]

Some T42p and T43's have the GPU and Southbridge chips bonded to the motherboard with clear epoxy glue rather than black, orange or red epoxy spots.

I mention this because they both suffer more from the SB becoming unsoldered (rather than the GPU), and to resolder it the epoxy must first be removed. This can only be done by grinding the chip off the board and replacing it with a new one - a big risk of damage to the board and I'm not sure if many repair companies are up to doing this.

I'm trying to understand your statement better.

* Are you saying that the clear glue chips are more likely to become unsoldered, or:

* Are you saying that on machines where epoxy is used (whether clear or colored) the SB is more likely to become unsoldered than the GPU?

* When you say the epoxy must be removed to resolder - does this apply to both clear glue and colored dots?

* Are you also saying that you are not aware of anyone offering repair services for failing board with epoxy? Is there a way to fix / alleviate problems on such boards other than resoldering?

[Raceboy]

The Radeon 9600 was used only in the T41p or T42p. The FireGL in the T43p can run circles around it.

Non-p T42's had also Radeon 9600 available, T42p had either 9600 or FireGL T2.

T41p came ONLY with FireGL T2, no 9600 there.

And the difference between FireGL V3200 (T43p) and FireGL T2 (T41p, T42p) is not that big. FireGL T2 achieves around 11 000-12 000 points in 3DMark2001SE, V3200 gets around 1000 points more, depending on other configuration.

[poshgeordie]

Sorry for the misunderstanding

Are you saying that the clear glue chips are more likely to become unsoldered

No I'm not saying that - as a repairer we see equal numbers of Thinkpads with unsoldered chips regardless of having clear, dots or nothing at all.

Are you saying that on machines where epoxy is used (whether clear or colored) the SB is more likely to become unsoldered than the GPU?

No - epoxy, dots, nothing does not seems to make a difference to chip failure whether GPU or SB. We are just seeing more SB fails when the GPU is metal topped.

When you say the epoxy must be removed to resolder - does this apply to both clear glue and colored dots?

Yes epoxy and dots must be removed before any reflowing (resoldering) or reballing takes place. The reason is that when resoldering the chip moves slightly when the solder balls melt and this cannot happen when epoxy / dots are present. Also epoxy extends into the first couple of rows of solder balls, and if the balls melt in this situation they "popcorn" out from under the chip - ie they explode out from the epoxy and the chip then definitely needs reballing!

The dots are easily removed by any competent repair company and if they don't remove them they aren't doing a proper job (IMHO!)

Are you also saying that you are not aware of anyone offering repair services for failing board with epoxy? Is there a way to fix / alleviate problems on such boards other than resoldering?

I am aware of one company who repairs these chips with the clear epoxy - my own one - since we worked out how to do it; but it's very time consuming and potentially a destructive process with a high risk of permanent motherboard damage.

There is no other way of fixing these problems except for making sure you carry the laptop properly by the sides and not by the screen or front lip or any other way which causes the body (and hence the motherboard) to flex and break the solder joints.

Also there are issues with using lead free solder balls in the newer models, because these solder balls suffer from oxidisation over time and the balls become non conductive with subsequent failures.

In general make sure the fan assembly is also cleaned out and works properly to give the best chip cooling. Coupled with that temperature management of the chips can also help.

I'll say again that because I only see broken laptops I'm not the best person to ask about reliability of one model compared with another, and I understand that T42p / T43 models are generally quite reliable. I'm just giving the story if there is a failure!

[dr_st]

Nick,

Thank you for the indepth explanation.

To understand where I am coming from - The T42 in my sig (now in the possession of my dear sister) has recently started showing symptoms consistent with southbridge failure, most noticeably - USB devices sometimes not detected or detected poorly. I have yet to examine the issue thoroughly myself, but it is at least an unfortunate likely possibility.

Assuming that's the problem is southbridge ungluing, it is probably too late at this point to take any preventative measures. As long as it's just USB, this can be remedied with a PCMCIA adapter, but at some point the issues are likely to get worse, and may result in complete failure.

The model is a late T42, which is akin a T43 soldering-wise. I know that the GPU is held down using red epoxy dots, cause I've seen it. I don't remember about the southbridge. Is it safe to assume that for the southbridge they will have used the same method?

However, again, I am not sure I understand you exactly, so please be patient with me.

I understand that epoxy always has to be removed before resoldering. However, you say that "the dots are easily removed", while the clear epoxy glue is a far more difficult process, and other than your company, you are not aware of anyone else doing it? Am I correct?

Once the epoxy is removed and the chip resoldered - does it make sense to reapply some sort of epoxy? Will it make the problem less likely to resurface, or will it just make it more difficult to fix if and when it does?

Assuming that the problem really is southbridge unsoldering, and assuming it does render the machine unusable eventually, I would love to use your services, however since I am neither in the US nor in the UK/EU, shipping the board back and forth would be a complicated and expensive process for me.

However, I do have access to a lab that on a regular basis solders and unsolders various chips. If the red epoxy dots are within the abilities of a competent repair facility, as I seem to understand, I would take my chances with them.

[RealBlackStuff]

Here's how to convert T43 from PATA to SATA:
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... -tid-60630