T61 nVidia thinkpads being repaired N/C [until March 2011]

[imekul]

I have a T61p with Windows 7 Ultimate. It has 2 GB RAM, 256 MB video, and a 2.5 GHz CPU.

The machine is exhibiting some pretty odd behavior that seems to be related to overheating.

Sometimes, the computer will completely freeze at the BIOS screen.

Also, Windows seems to run stably for the most part until something taxing is going on, like the Windows Experience Index assessment. Then the computer will either freeze or power off, as if there was no battery and the power cord was pulled.

What's odd is that in any case when it shuts down, all of the indicator lights are off and stay off -- including the lights indicating the power cord being plugged in. They will remain off, and the computer will be completely dead until I remove the battery and then unplug the power. Once I do that, I can power it back up.

With Windows idling, the CPU temperature is around 49 degrees Celsius, and the GPU is 60 degrees. When I re-run the assessment, the CPU climbs to 55 and the GPU to 90 before power shuts off.

Any clue what could be wrong? It sure seems like it must be related to overheating. Perhaps a GPU issue? Also, why would the laptop remain dead until ALL power is disconnected? Seems odd to me!

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

[RealBlackStuff]

It's the nVidia graphics chip that is dying. All T61 or T61p with nVidia will die eventually, it's not a matter of IF, but of WHEN.
If still under warranty, send it in pronto!
Otherwise start looking for a new motherboard or a new laptop.

[imekul]

Thanks for the input.

Do you think this is the type of thing that can be fixed with a reflowing or reballing?

[RealBlackStuff]

No, it's internally, inside the GPU chip that the problem occurs (layers becoming separated).
It was just a rotten production run from nVidia, the same chips were used not only by Lenovo, but also by Dell, HP, Gateway and others.
ALL of them (with these particular chips) have problems sooner or later. There's a huge class action against nVidia.

[Kamika007z]

I believe the newer revision boards that Lenovo should have do not have this issue.

[imekul]

I wanted to give an update on the T61p.

Turns out, the GPU is a-okay. The heat was due to the heatsink being slightly bent, thus it wasn't making good contact with the GPU.

Heatsink has been bent into shape, and we are good to go now! CPU is 55 idling and GPU is 52. Neither seem to get above 75-ish when under heavy loads.

[Kamika007z]

Perfect! I'm glad its working! I wonder how it got bent...

Also, don't forget to clean off the old thermal compound and add artic silver.

[eecon]

It's the nVidia graphics chip that is dying. All T61 or T61p with nVidia will die eventually, it's not a matter of IF, but of WHEN.
If still under warranty, send it in pronto!
Otherwise start looking for a new motherboard or a new laptop.

Lenovo has finally started to address the issue repairing at no charge post-warranty machines (visit the Lenovo Support Forums).

Furthermore, Lenovo has revealed that T61/T61p units with build dates from Aug08 and newer are not affected as the Nvidia fix (proper solder material) was introduced sometime during July08 production. Look under your T61/T61p just to the right of the S/N for the YR/Mo to see if you've got one of the late production good ones (08/08, 08/09, 08/10, 08/11, 08/12 and 09/01). I've fortunately got an Aug08 unit. Some July08 units are also okay but Lenovo can't sort out which ones as the good ones for sure because the fix was introduced in stages during early to mid-July08. I'm betting that Lenovo's delay in first admitting the issue and then finally moving forward on it world-wide just recently it had to do with negotiating compensation from Nvidia, who was the real culprit here.

Here's more info:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-pri ... 771#M55090

Our Moderators may wish to make this breaking news a Sticky.

[BillMorrow]

herewith are the contents of the above indicated post on the lenovo supported forums:

]Make sure to politely and exactly say the following words before you say anything else to the customer service rep:

Hello ..... I understand from reading recent news reports on Lenovo support forums and other web blogs that Lenovo has now agreed to honor it's world-wide committment to high quality customer service by repairing defective T61/T61p units containing Nvidia discrete graphics built before August 1, 2008 in accordance with Lenovo's MIGR-75087 internal support document at no charge, even though they may be beyond the warranty period. I would very much appreciate your help in resolving my issue.

Then pause and let the CS Rep respond .... If they say that they can not find the MIGR, ask them to please escalate to a Support Department rep so that they can pull up the MIGR because it is not available to the public (and often the CS Rep also can not access it .... especially outside the U.S. and Canada). MIGR-75087 has been intentionally pulled from public access ..... only Lenovo Support and it's authorized repair contractors have access to it.

[Cyberstudio]

Wow! My laptop (T61) was on service at lenovo today. they changed the motherboard because i had these problems with the GPU. the new motherboard is Rev C0, and the GPU its now Rev A2. (nvidia 140M). How do i know if im now on the "safe" side??

Its there some one having problems with the gpu rev A2??

PD: You can check your rev using cpu-z.

[eecon]

Wow! My laptop (T61) was on service at lenovo today. they changed the motherboard because i had these problems with the GPU. the new motherboard is Rev C0, and the GPU its now Rev A2. (nvidia 140M). How do i know if im now on the "safe" side??

Its there some one having problems with the gpu rev A2??

PD: You can check your rev using cpu-z.

Any T61/T61p Lenovo built beginning Aug 2008 is okay from the factory, thus anything Lenovo is repairing today is for sure okay.

Your unit's original build date is located on the bottom just to the right of the S/N ..... the format is (Yr/Mo) so units with 08/08, 08/09, 08/10, 08/11, 08/12, 09/01 etc incorporated the fix you have just received. It was the tail end of T61/T61p production that got built with the "Nvidia fix" so if you are buying a used one make sure to ask for the build date code ..... suddenly it's now very important shopping info.

[Cyberstudio]

Wow! My laptop (T61) was on service at lenovo today. they changed the motherboard because i had these problems with the GPU. the new motherboard is Rev C0, and the GPU its now Rev A2. (nvidia 140M). How do i know if im now on the "safe" side??

Its there some one having problems with the gpu rev A2??

PD: You can check your rev using cpu-z.

Any T61/T61p Lenovo built beginning Aug 2008 is okay from the factory, thus anything Lenovo is repairing today is for sure okay.

Your unit's original build date is located on the bottom just to the right of the S/N ..... the format is (Yr/Mo) so units with 08/08, 08/09, 08/10, 08/11, 08/12, 09/01 etc incorporated the fix you have just received. It was the tail end of T61/T61p production that got built with the "Nvidia fix" so if you are buying a used one make sure to ask for the build date code ..... suddenly it's now very important shopping info.

I think the faulty gpu rev is A1. anyone can confirm?

[kaede]

not really sure about that. Mine one is A2 but affected with this issue. What i do just reheating it. And it will works for a while.
http://tinypic.com/r/faq4qu/7
im using gpu z anyway.

regards

[eecon]

not really sure about that. Mine one is A2 but affected with this issue. What i do just reheating it. And it will works for a while.
http://tinypic.com/r/faq4qu/7
im using gpu z anyway.

regards

Why in the heck are you wasting your time with some half-baked GPU reballing scheme when Lenovo is stepping up to replace mobo and GPU at no charge well past warranty? You just have to let them verify it's S/N is not reported stolen.

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-pri ... 771#M55090

[kaede]

thanks for the link. even its tottaly out of warranty? the last post from mark mentioned that the most is 6mth expired warranty.

[eecon]

thanks for the link. even its tottaly out of warranty? the last post from mark mentioned that the most is 6mth expired warranty.

Ignore that time frame .... events are changing daily .... one guy 3 years past warranty just reported they fixed it. Remember .... be polite on the phone.

[pit1337]

Is this whole thing only about T series? And is it international, or only US?

I've got R61i with Quadro NVS 140M (WSXGA screen) produced in 08/01, so it's definetly affected by this issue, and it's out of warranty for 2 years.
Right now, it's alive, but it WILL sometime fail.

As far as I understand, they will stop this FREE repair in March 31, 2011 - should I just pretend that it died?
I do really want to use this machine for next 3 or even 4 years...

[eecon]

Is this whole thing only about T series? And is it international, or only US?

I've got R61i with Quadro NVS 140M (WSXGA screen) produced in 08/01, so it's definetly affected by this issue, and it's out of warranty for 2 years.
Right now, it's alive, but it WILL sometime fail.

As far as I understand, they will stop this FREE repair in March 31, 2011 - should I just pretend that it died?
I do really want to use this machine for next 3 or even 4 years...

It is international and Nvidia's fault ...... affects all laptop manufacturers.

Pretending it died won't get you a free repair ..... and the R units are not affected as much .... just keep the fan and heat sinks clean and you'll probably be okay.

Just Google "Defective Nvidia Laptop Issue" for the background story.

[pit1337]

I know how to longer it's life - do not cool down GPU after stress too fast. I've changed fan rules to achive it
But still, I'm not feeling safe.

I know that it affects all laptop manufacturers, but I want to be sure that they aren't only repairing T series for free (R series = lower class, this is why I'm asking).

Do you think that they will check if it's really broken before motherboard change?

[eecon]

Do you think that they will check if it's really broken before motherboard change?

Yes absolutely .... and worse they require $500 before they return it after replacing what may be a perfectly good mobo. It's already happened to other's (just a few months past warranty who claimed it had failed when it really had not).

The unit must have failed to be eligible for the no charge fix. That means it exhibits one long and two short beeps with a blank screen upon power up.

Like I said, I think your unit will be okay but just in case, keep a can of air duster handy to blow into the fan intake while running once a week and twice a year remove the keyboard to blow off dust from the CPU and GPU heat sink (use the Forum's search function for instructions on how to remove the keyboard ... it's easy).

Also read and study this helpful Lenovo Support Forum link:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-pri ... 325#M55227

[pit1337]

Ouh. I won't definitely risk that amount of money
Looks like it surviced 3 years, so I hope it will for another 3.

Thanks for clarification

[eecon]

Ouh. I won't definitely risk that amount of money
Looks like it surviced 3 years, so I hope it will for another 3.

Thanks for clarification

I edited my post since you posted this reply .... please go back an take a second look at it.

Like I said, if you keep your R-unit clean, I think you will be fine.

[pit1337]

Again, thanks.
No problem with maintenance for me - I've disassembled my R61 countless times and I'm repasting all my units (even server) every 6 months or so

I just don't like this feeling 'will it die today?' as this lappy feels like not realiable anymore.

[eecon]

Again, thanks.
No problem with maintenance for me - I've disassembled my R61 countless times and I'm repasting all my units (even server) every 6 months or so

I just don't like this feeling 'will it die today?' as this lappy feels like not realiable anymore.

I sort of feel the same way .... My main unit is a T61p with a Nvidia GPU and an August 2008 build date, so it's one of the late-built safe ones, but my emergency spare T61 with a Nvidia GPU is a July 2007 build (I can simply swap the hard drive in an emergency between them if a keyboard or screen fails). Both still have warranty until July 2011 for the T61 and Aug 2012 for the T61p, but I'm on the lookout for a used T61p built Aug2008 or later. I'll sell the July 2007 T61 while it still has warranty on eBay.

[magura]

@pit1337

My T61p died later last year and CS in Poland denied servicing it free of charge as I wasn't already covered at that time (guarantee expired Aug 2010). Drawing on eecon's post (no linking as it's been mentioned earlier in this thread) and with Mark_Lenovo's help I'm waiting now for a reply from the CS again. This time, however, upon being referenced to the internal MIGR document they just asked me to email them again about my problem and I'm really hoping for them to take positive action. I will keep you updated on that.

Your situation seems a bit different. First of all, your system hasn't failed you so far. What's more, it the 'R' series and it's just got bigger vents and it doesn't risk heating as much as the T61p's slim case fitted with FX 570M 256MB nVidia GPU which is a real radiator, i.e. it's stressed temperatures easily reach >80C

[pit1337]

Thanks!
Yes, so far it's perfectly fine. IMO thickness doesn't really matter - failure is caused by cooling GPU too fast, not by high temps.
I will try to keep it alive as long as it's possible, because as I see, I can't really rely on Lenovo.

BTW. I've found customer service in Poland of almost any corp. to be real pain in 'something below my back'...

[eecon]

Thanks!
Yes, so far it's perfectly fine. IMO thickness doesn't really matter - failure is caused by cooling GPU too fast, not by high temps.
I will try to keep it alive as long as it's possible, because as I see, I can't really rely on Lenovo.

BTW. I've found customer service in Poland of almost any corp. to be real pain in 'something below my back'...

I've customized my Power Manager settings to use it always on high CPU power (rather than adaptive) and never turn it off or place it in standby immediately after use ..... I just change to another customized Power Setting scheme that keeps the CPU always at "low" speed and let it idle for an hour ..... I never immediately go to standby or power down ........ that's the key to success and you are correct about coolling down too fast! And of course, I'm always running from wall power on a Lenovo Mini-Dock so I can do all this w/o worrying about remaining battery power so this probably won't apply to road warriors.

Al Gore and his greenie weenies may not like this, but that's just too bad as far as I'm concerned.

[pit1337]

I've set my fan to never turn off and changed it's rules - now it's way much more responsive and right after end of stress it goes to lower level allowing GPU to slowly cool down. Suspending/Shutting down right after stress shouldn't kill it because it will just cool down itself passively.
On the other side, I almost never stress GPU much, only while watching HD movies.

[magura]

Yikes! I wasn't aware of this peculiarity. Keep it hot at a constant!? I might not be a road warrior but I'd rather use my system in such a hassle free way that reflects its price and that means in case of T61p - 'fire and forget' way. I can do such staff with my older Thinkpad models - hold the mb in one corner in order to boot, etc.

[eecon]

Yikes! I wasn't aware of this peculiarity. Keep it hot at a constant!? I might not be a road warrior but I'd rather use my system in such a hassle free way that reflects its price and that means in case of T61p - 'fire and forget' way. I can do such staff with my older Thinkpad models - hold the mb in one corner in order to boot, etc.

Yeh ..... Lenovo and the other mfgs got screwed ny Nvidia on a bad batch of GPUs for a while there in 2007 and 2008 .... just Google "Nvidia laptop issue"