New SSD firmware available from Lenovo

[alins]

New firmware is available for a number of SSDs used in Thinkpad laptops:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-69806

Does anybody know if this new firmware will enable TRIM under Windows 7 (or idle garbage collection) for the Samsung SSDs?

[ricerocket]

Not sure how accurate this is/if it applies to these drives, but the gist of it is Samsung's TRIM is done internally on the drive and not OS dependent.

http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=7488

with benchmarks:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=76 ... ert&pid=11

[aau007]

I tried the firmware upgrade today and the utility did not work. When my machine attempted to boot from CD drive, I just got a blinking cursor on the upper left hand corner of the screen.

Has someone else successfully updated their firmware with the utility?

[mgo]

I tried the firmware upgrade today and the utility did not work. When my machine attempted to boot from CD drive, I just got a blinking cursor on the upper left hand corner of the screen.

Has someone else successfully updated their firmware with the utility?

Yes, success on two different machines. One said "no update needed" and the other ran the update.
Does your machine boot from other bootable disks, like the Windows install disk?
If so, perhaps you might try downloading the ISO again and burn it again.

[aau007]

Yes, success on two different machines. One said "no update needed" and the other ran the update.
Does your machine boot from other bootable disks, like the Windows install disk?
If so, perhaps you might try downloading the ISO again and burn it again.

I downloaded twice and burned on CD twice. Each one with same result. Are you able to see the files on the CD after creating the CD using Windows Explorer? When I put the CD back into the drive, it shows 0 file. When I tried to mount the iso to a virtual CD, it also shows 0 file.

The CD boots up with just a blinking cursor at the upper left hand corner of the screen.

[visionviper]

What are you using to burn the CD?

As a side note, I was able to update my SSD firmware with no issues.

[aau007]

What are you using to burn the CD?

As a side note, I was able to update my SSD firmware with no issues.

Roxio Creator Business Edition 10.1.177, the one that comes with my x200s. I used the "burn image to disk" function, obviously.

[AvalonXIII]

To those who updated the firmware, can you run this program for me:
http://crystalmark.info/software/Crysta ... dex-e.html
It's a information retriever program that will tell you whether your SSD supports various features, like NCQ, TRIM, etc... It also tells you the drive's total power-on time, along with various other information.
I'm trying to find out whether this firmware update from Lenovo will enable TRIM on Samsung SSD or not. If it enables TRIM, the TRIM feature should be listed for your drive in Crystaldiskinfo.

[aau007]

My current firmware is vam08l1q and APM, AAM, NCQ, TRIM are all greyed out.

[AvalonXIII]

My current firmware is vam08l1q and APM, AAM, NCQ, TRIM are all greyed out.

I assume the update doesn't work for you yet right (from what you said earlier in the thread)?

[aau007]

I am now on the new firmware vam0dl1q. The aforementioned options are still greyed out. No change. I have heard that Samsung uses its own firmware to do the cleanup and is OS independent, thus TRIM does not show as positive. However, it only supports ntfs partitions. I am still waiting for IBM support to get back to me about what the new firmware actually does new/fixes/enhances.

My problem about burning the CD ended up to be a missing Sonic patch. IBM support gave me the link to download the patch. After installing the patch, it burned fine.

[AvalonXIII]

Correct. Samsung has their own technology to free up written-to cells (sometimes called garbage collection to make it easier to understand). Their technology is OS independent, and it even works with RAID-ed SSD (TRIM won't work with SSD in RAID, at least for now). It would still be nice to see if they have TRIM or not, though, since they promise that firmware update to be due at the end of November.

[victorhooi]

heya,

I've just successfully upgraded the firmware on my Samsung SSD to VAM0DL1Q, and I can also confirm that CrystalDisk Info reports TRIM as greyed out.

I was under the impression that Samsung has promised to enable the TRIM command by the end of 2009? Has anybody heard anything contrary, or anybody managed to get TRIM working?

Cheers,
Victor

[visionviper]

heya,

I've just successfully upgraded the firmware on my Samsung SSD to VAM0DL1Q, and I can also confirm that CrystalDisk Info reports TRIM as greyed out.

I was under the impression that Samsung has promised to enable the TRIM command by the end of 2009? Has anybody heard anything contrary, or anybody managed to get TRIM working?

Cheers,
Victor

Read the previous posts... Samsung uses their own software in the firmware that is OS independent to do the same thing.

[victorhooi]

heya,

Yes, I've read that, but perhaps you should read that post again as well - Samsung have always had their own proprietary idle garbage collection (so-called "auto TRIM" feature available for some time, but they also promised to have proper native TRIM supported as well, by the end of 2009.

So my question was, does anybody have a timeline on that?

Cheers,
Victor

[AvalonXIII]

It's already out. Whether your drive is supported or not is a different story. You'll need 2nd gen MLC SSD from Samsung. Go to the official samsung ssd site for the downloadable update.

heya,

Yes, I've read that, but perhaps you should read that post again as well - Samsung have always had their own proprietary idle garbage collection (so-called "auto TRIM" feature available for some time, but they also promised to have proper native TRIM supported as well, by the end of 2009.

So my question was, does anybody have a timeline on that?

Cheers,
Victor

[victorhooi]

heya,

AvalonXIII: Thanks for that =). Now I suppose the test is whether the Lenovo-installed drive is supported .

The model in my Lenovo X200 is a MMCQE28G8MUP-0VA drive. I'm not aware if that's a 2nd gen MLC or not. The firmware version on there (VAM0DL1Q) is completely different to those mentioned on the Samsung site (VBM18C1Q, and VBM19C1Q). not sure if that's a good or bad sign.

Cheers,
Victor

[victorhooi]

heya,

Well, according to here (under datasheet):

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... CQE28G8MUP

My particular drive (MMCQE28G8MUP-0VA, in a Lenovo X200t) has a PB22-J controller. And according to here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... p?t=243285

that is supported by the new update.

So I guess we'll take it for a ride. That second post did say it requires reformatting the drive. Can anybody confirm that? I thought you just needed to update the firmware. Hmm, that'll be fun. So I need to backup, flash it, then delete all the partitions, and re-create them? Oh boy. I'll let the forum know if CrystalDisk Info reports TRIM after all this.

Cheers,
Victor

[alins]

I wrote to Samsung, and here is the email chain. So we have two contradictory answers. If you manage to format and upgrade the firmware on your drive please let everybody know!

--------------------------------------
Re: Firmware upgrade for Samsung SSD
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:20 PM
From: "SemiWebmaster" <semiconductor@samsung.com>

Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry to Samsung Semiconductor.

We don´t support Trim for the drive you have because it was designed before Win7 launching.

If you have any further questions, please send us more question again or visit our Homepage(http://www.samsungsemi.com).

Sincerely,
Semiconductor Business
Samsung Electronics Co,.Ltd.

This is an automated response. Please do not respond to this message.
If you want to make any comments or ask another question, please use the link provided in this mail.

----- Original Message -----
Date : 2010-02-15 15:07:00.0
Subject : Firmware upgrade for Samsung SSD

Hello,

Is there a firmware upgrade available for the 128GB Samsung MMCQE28G8MUP-0VA SSD to enable Windows 7 TRIM support? Will there be one in the near future?

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad X200S laptop with this drive in it, and the firmware version on it is VAM0DL1Q.

Thanks very much
Regards

[visionviper]

I wrote to Samsung, and here is the email chain. So we have two contradictory answers. If you manage to format and upgrade the firmware on your drive please let everybody know!...

Awww, stupid Samsung for having no foresight.

[aau007]

I am happy as long as an updated firmware has some sort of garbage collection. I am not sure if it has to have TRIM.

FWIW, I tested my ssd before the Lenovo firmware upgrade and it was in fact slower than when it was new. With the firmware now, my CrystalDiskMark has gone back up to like when it was day 1. Not sure if the new firmware did anything but the numbers surely shows the difference.

[alins]

Wrote to Samsung again for clarification. See below.

Re: Firmware upgrade for Samsung SSD
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:57 PM
From: "SemiWebmaster" <semiconductor@samsung.com>

Hello,
Thank you for your inquiry to Samsung Semiconductor.

DSRD is only for the MMDOE56G5MXP-0VB series and not for the drive you have. It has commented on download guide.

If you have any further questions, please send us more question again or visit our Homepage(http://www.samsungsemi.com).

Sincerely,
Semiconductor Business
Samsung Electronics Co,.Ltd.

This is an automated response. Please do not respond to this message.
If you want to make any comments or ask another question, please use the link provided in this mail.

----- Original Message -----
Mail From :
Date : 2010-02-18 08:32:00.0
Subject : Re: Firmware upgrade for Samsung SSD

The answer below is confusing.

Please see
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... CQE28G8MUP

This is my drive. On the right hand side of the page above, there is a link to Firmware - DSRD 2.1.0 and Firmware - Download Guide for this drive! My firmware however is VAM0DL1Q.

Can you please double check to see if I can use the new firmware? If not, you should remove the links above from the page above.

Thanks

[aau007]

I believe this is the correct tech spec for the MMCQE28G8MUP-0VA. This is a 7/08 document so it aligns with the time frame that Lenovo release their 128GB Samsung SSD.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... pec_10.pdf

[victorhooi]

heya,

I've just sent a message to Samsung via their webform:

Hi,

I recently purchased a Lenovo X200 TabletPC, with a Samsung model MMCQE28G8MUP-0VA SSD.

Currently, the firmware for this does not support "TRIM", although I have been told it has it's own internal garbage collection algorithm.

Recently, Samsung did release updated SSD firmware with TRIM support, and I had thought this supported my particular drive. However, I have now been told this is not true, and that the firmware update will not work for my drive. (e.g. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=82498).

Can you please confirm if this is true, and if so, does Samsung have any future plans to support it's existing customers who have this drive, by implementing TRIM?

Thanks,
Victor

We'll see what their response is. I really do hope the support those customers with older drives (heck, I didn't think it's that old, I got this laptop what, a few months ago? Lol).

Cheers,
Victor

[victorhooi]

heya,

Here's my reply from Samsung

Hello Victor Hooi ,
Thank you for your inquiry to Samsung Semiconductor.

Your drive seems to Lenovo´s MMCQE28G8MUP-0VAL1 and the F/W should be one of VAM08L1Q or VAM0EL1Q. Both F/W does not support trim according to Lenovo´s Policy.
Please contact Lenovo contact center to get more detail.

If you have any further questions, please send us more question again or visit our Homepage(http://www.samsungsemi.com).

Sincerely,
Semiconductor Business
Samsung Electronics Co,.Ltd.

I looked on Lenovo's site, there's no easy email address (no companies seem to provide them these days), it seems you have to use your warranty and open a support case. Anyhow, I just emailed the only address I could find on their website (websales@lenovo.com, if anybody else has any actual direct email addresses, feel free to chime in).

This is what I've written to them:

Hi,

I'm sorry to have to use this email, but it seems to be the only email address that Lenovo deigns to provide on their website.

Anyhow, I recently purchased a Lenovo X200 Tablet PC, equipped with a 128 Gb.

I, along with other Lenovo owners have experienced issues getting our drives to support TRIM, as implemented in Windows 7 (and the Linux kernel, now). E.g.:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=82498

Samsung recently released updated firmware, which enabled true TRIM support on their drives. However, it seems Lenovo drives are excluded from this update. From Samsung's response (see below), it apepars that this is a Lenovo-specific policy, in their words. Would you be able to confirm whether this is true or not, and whether it is on the roadmap for Lenovo in the future to support it's customers and release TRIM support on their drives?

Thanks,
Victor

I'll keep you guys updated on what they say. If anybody knows any other channels we could approach them on, that would be fantastic. I really don't want to have to start a Twitter campaign to get their attention on this...lol...

Cheers,
Victor

[archer6]

Due to this very issue & delays, thanks to Lenovo, I removed my OEM SSD. Replaced it with my OCZ that I have just updated the firmware on. At least going forward, we know that all new SSDs will support TRIM.

[aau007]

The only information I was able to obtain from Lenovo (thru regular tech support) is that the new vam0dl1q version firmware is that they tweaked some settings for the drive's wear leveling, which helps extend the life of the SSD. There was no word about TRIM or other self garbage collection mechanism.

[victorhooi]

heya,

archer6: Sorry to hear about the troubles you had with Lenovo. It is a bit poor form that you were forced to do that.

Hmm, I still haven't gotten any reply from Lenovo, but it's only been a few days, hopefully they'll get back to us soon.

On another interesting note:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthr ... ?p=5921099

some Dell users report success with just calling up Dell, and reporting that their SSD drives are slowing down, and they sent out a new SSD to them...lol. I don't know if Lenovo support would be that good. (My gosh, I think I just used Dell support as a favourable standard to compare others against...haha).

Cheers,
Victor

[victorhooi]

heya,

I have a reply from Lenovo:

Dear Victor,

Thank you for contacting Lenovo, the makers of ThinkPad and ThinkCentre products.

As I understand you bought a Thinkpad X200 Tablet however, you haev an issue with drivers to support TRIM. We apologize for the inconvenience caused. You would have to contact our Tech Support at 1800-426-7378 for further assistance.

If you have further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us at 866-42-THINK (84465) option number 2. We will be happy to assist at that time.

Once again, thank you for contacting Lenovo.


Sincerely,
Liticia

Lenovo Websales/CustServe
www.lenovo.com/us

Guess I'll have to give them a call. I'll post an update when I do that.

Cheers,
Victor

[victorhooi]

heya,

I'm about to send my unit in for a separate screen issue (basically, it developed pink/green lines up and down the screen), so I thought I'd also send it in for the harddisk issue as well. The slowdown is really very noticeable now (around 15-20 Mbps write, sometimes), and it's really quite pathetic.

I'll keep you guys updated on what IBM says. Hopefully they'll either firmware flash the drive, or they'll swap it out for one that actually supports TRIM, as Dell does.

I'm also curious about what Samsung meant when they said it was Lenovo policy not to allow it. Strange.

Cheers,
Victor