No extended warranty for Lenovo Outlet computers??

[hellosailor]

I was talking to the Outlet sales staff, looking for an "outlet" computer since nothing in current production still has the old style keyboard, which I want. And apparently it doesn't matter if a computer sold by the Outlet is refurbed, returned, scratch-n-dent or simply NOS, they sell them with just a one-year warranty and claim there's no way to get a Lenovo warranty extension.

Which is darn odd, since you'd think a returned or refurb'ed computer FROM LENOVO would still be eligible for the same warranty options as a new computer from Lenovo. It is supposed to be the same machine, tested and meeting the same standards in all ways. But apparently...they don't have enough faith to warranty it. Or is this just the left hand not knowing what the right hand is up to?

Is it possible to just call in and say "I have computer ### model ### still under original warranty, I want to buy a couple more years of coverage on this" ??

After all, if I just buy one retail with a one-year warranty, I can call up and extend that anytime while the original warranty is still running, so what's impossible about the Outlet? Penalizing users for not going retail??

--Red

[ajkula66]

That policy is a couple of years old now.

Yes, I do understand how you feel. I was pretty darn upset when it first came out myself...

[ZaZ]

If you look at it from Lenovo's perspective, they're probably selling it for less than they did originally in most cases. Plus, they've got to house it until it sells. Something's got to give.

[hellosailor]

None of that makes sense, Zaz. Lenovo's cost to refurbish (which in many cases means "check and repack" a mcahine they already got 15% of the price of, for a return) is a "fixed cost" or "sunk cost" in economic terms. Whatever it costs, is reflected in the outlet sales price for that computer.

Which has *nothing* to do with the sale of a separate extended warranty. Lenovo, like most or all of the vendors, sells an extended warranty as a separate for-profit item. When they sell you an additional, upgraded, or extended warranty for $200-300, they expect to keep perhaps $150 in pure profit from that sale, and that is normally priced to be a much higher profit margin than the actual retail sale of the computer.

So refusing to sell that highly profitable option actually LOWERS their profit. Significantly.

If they did this to discourage outlet sales, that would be plain stupid, since they are going to have returned/repaired computers in any case, and by law they can't be sold as new, so they have to be discounted or donated, cleared out in some way.


The answer seems to be EITHER that there is something very risky about these machines, compared to new ones (which seems foolish if they are tested as they say) or Lenovo is trying to punish customers (some of whom can afford to pay full list) and scare them into not buying from the outlet.

There are two schools of thought about scaring customers into action. The larger opinion is that it is bad for business in the long term. When you scare customers, they tend to go elsewhere and stay there.

Bring me the CEO of Lenono, I need to slap his/her face until they understand this concept.

[dr_st]

The answer seems to be EITHER that there is something very risky about these machines, compared to new ones (which seems foolish if they are tested as they say) or Lenovo is trying to punish customers (some of whom can afford to pay full list) and scare them into not buying from the outlet.

Probably the latter.

In the past few years it seems that Lenovo management is taking active steps to alienate customers that actually have a technical mindset and any appreciation of the brand. Ridiculous sales policies; customer service that's so bad it's not even in the toilet, but somewhere in the sewer; refusal to fix obvious defects under warranty, which they had no problem fixing before; product changes that nobody asked for, and improve the product in no way, while at the same time avoiding making changes that people have been asking for; blatant ways to try to get more money for nothing (artificial dock/battery incompatibility in the newer models).

For every such thing people sometimes try make excuses for Lenovo, but very few of these actually hold, since you can easily find competing laptop vendors without such stupidity (e.g., DELL will happily sell you a 3 or even 5-year warranty on refurbished outlet models, high resolution IPS screens have been available on workstation models for a few years, and recently are pushed even to the consumer segment, yet the only Thinkpad IPS offering is still a 12.5" 1366x768 on the X series, which apparently also tends to develop wear marks at an insane rate, which Lenovo won't fix for free).

[ZaZ]

Were it in their interest to sell an extended warranty to outlet customers, they would do so. That's what makes sense.

[dr_st]

Agreed. And had it been in my interest to buy a new Lenovo Thinkpad, I would have. But it's not, so I won't.

[ZaZ]

That's the only way they'll get the message.

[hellosailor]

"were it in their interest" Not necessarily, Zaz. You give them credit for being atute businessmen, and we can't assume that.

Consider dr-St's mention of DELL.

Years ago when Dell was a big new business concept and a radical source for computers, I suggested to someone that he buy a small network (3) PCs from them, all identical machines so they'd be easy to network (which wasn't easy back then) and easy to configure, all the same.

Well, it turned out that each machine was built differently, even though they came in the same order off the same line. Driver problems, setup problems, Dell finally sent out the local cheap tech to work on them, and even the tech gave up. While I was looking over the debris I saw the tech had left behind an extra driver floppy, wouldn't you know, if you put the right drivers on each machine (he didn't, he also mistook them for identical) everything worked.

But for ten years I never recommeneded Dell to anyone again, because they screwed the man up so badly and fell down on the support as well. Business time is money, and they cost him dearly on both.

Come forward 10+ years and someone said "I need a server THIS WEEK" in the middle of December, good trick if you wanted it custom configured. So DELL had returns and refurbs, in stock configured as-is and able to ship in 24 hours. OK, we ordered one that was close enough. (I think IBM wanted 10 days to build a server at that time.) Second day later, no Fedex. Only voicemail at Dell. Thrid day, no Fedex, only voicemail at Dell. A week goes by, can't get anyone at Dell on the phone, and a call comes in from Dell "We couldn't get your corporate Amex to verify, could you reconfirm the numbers?"

I said, let me see now, we ordered this machine because you could ship it in 24 hours, and it took you a week to say there's a problem? The man apologized and said they were terribly busy so I said "I can help you with that problem. Cancel the order. Now you're not so busy." And the new sale went to IBM.

Corporate brains come and go. That's how HP became the biggest computer maker in the world, and then wanted to bail totally out of the business. Or why (was it ASUS?) made almost every machine for everyone else for some years, and then lost that market and brought out their own brand. Sometimes, marketing is a black art and it just takes a while for the damage to become apparent.

But hey, maybe this is working for Lenovo in the bigger picture. Or they think it is. Now that their machines are just like everyone else's, gee, why will people choose one?

[Cigarguy]

^^^Huh?

It boils down to price. Want support and service? Pay full price at the regular channels. Want a discount? That's what the outlet store is for. Want a PC, laptop or ThinkPad? Lenovo bought the consumer division of IBM PC. Want a server? There's a reason why IBM kept that business.

[hellosailor]

No, it doesn't boil down to price. The price you pay for the computer, has nothing to do with the price and sale of aftermarket accessories, which include warranty upgrades and extensions.

It also has nothing to do with the profitability of selling them.

If you bought a new car in the US in the 1950's of 1960's, a lot of dealerships wouldn't service your car, if you didn't buy it from them. They thought that was incentive for you to buy from them. (Or if they would service it, you wre put at the back of the line in every way.)

Then someone figured out, if you give them good service, people might buy the next car from you. Or at least bring you the service business--which is a separate business and sometimes more lucrative than the car sale itself. guess what? The dealerships that are making the most money? Will all compete on service, no matter where you bought the car.

You're confusing two totally separate issues. Lenovo sells computers. Lenovo sells accessories, and one of those is warranty upgrades. A separate item, separate profit structure, and if they choose NOT to sell it? They're just choosing not to make profits. There are third-party vendors who will gladly sell warranty service, even if they are sometimes more expensive or less reliable. And of course, other vendors who will sell other computers--with warranty options.

It would be a really questionable business case to try proving, in numbes, that this policy increased other sales or profits in any way.