time to replace a T41p; there are so many Lenovo models now!

[acz]

My wife has finally decided to replace her trusty T41p running XP.

Going forward she would like a laptop with a large and excellent screen.
Her main use will be for geneaology work, so that means email, web surfing, some documents and spreadsheets, and sharing photos with the extended family. I plan to get her a good quality photo scanner. The machine will spend more time on her desk than it will traveling, but I can see that she might start bringing a new machine to the library and the archives.
She does not care about tablet features, and would really prefer to have Win 7 to avoid the hassles and learning curve of Win 8.

We have been Thinkpad users for 20+ years. I am using a T61 with Win 7 Pro.
Now I see that Lenovo has so many laptop product lines that it makes my head spin. E-G-Y-L-S-X and more!

I spoke with a nice sales rep at Lenovo, but he said there is really no easy way to compare all those models with a single chart.
He said that only Thinkpads can still be ordered with Win 7, but that the largest Thinkpad screen is 14-15 inches, whereas other models can go up to 17 inches.

He suggested shopping at the Lenovo outlet to get a good deal.
The only 17" screens there are the G700 series all with Win 8, at $420 or less.
If I check the box to get only machines that have Win 7 Pro, then the max screen size is 14", and they range from E440 at $520 up to T440 series from $800-1,000.

I suppose she would consider a non-Lenovo, but that would be a break from tradition.

Any suggestions from the smart folks here would be appreciated.

acz

[ZaZ]

Any suggestions from the smart folks here would be appreciated.

Honestly, I'm not that bright, but I'll give it my best shot.

If you want a ThinkPad with a good screen that can travel some, I'd say the T440s or T440p are worth a look. Both offer an optional 1080p IPS LCD that's quite nice. If your wife is a trackpoint user, she may not like the new one. $1,000, if that's the top of your budget, might be a little low, unless you get lucky in the outlet.

The X240 is light and has an optional IPS LCD as well, though it's low resolution at 1366x768. You can do the older X220 and X230 for less I'm guessing, and you'll get a proper trackpoint.

Another option might be, if it's only going to sit on a desk mostly, to get an inexpensive ThinkPad, anything sold today would be a big improvement over the T41p from a processing power per then just buy an external monitor. A cheap ThinkPad and good external LCD would probably cost less than a T440(s/p).

The Dell E7440 might merit consideration as well. They can be had in the Dell Outlet dirt cheap if you can wait for coupons found via the Dell Outlet Twitter account. They have a three year NBD warranty standard and a 1080p IPS LCD option that's pretty good too.

Any machine sold with Windows 8.1 Pro includes the right to downgrade to Windows 7 or Vista Pro. Often though they don't make it easy as there's a good chance there won't be a key allowing to get to the activation screen, but there are ways around it if you want to do a clean install yourself.

[waterloo]

I think buying a new Thinkpad would be overkill for what you want to do.

A refurbished Thinkpad T420, T420s, T430, T430s, T520 & T530 would meet your needs.

[dr_st]

The X240 is light and has an optional IPS LCD as well, though it's low resolution at 1366x768.

The X240 does have FHD IPS options.

[pianowizard]

Going forward she would like a laptop with a large and excellent screen...The machine will spend more time on her desk than it will traveling, but I can see that she might start bringing a new machine to the library and the archives...He said that only Thinkpads can still be ordered with Win 7, but that the largest Thinkpad screen is 14-15 inches, whereas other models can go up to 17 inches...The only 17" screens there are the G700 series all with Win 8, at $420 or less.

Sounds like you really want to get larger than 15.6-inch, and weight isn't much of a concern. I agree with others that you don't need to buy new. If you must have 17", the last Thinkpad of this size was the W701, which still goes for well above $1K because very few units were made. Much more affordable is its precursor, the W700, which typically sells for around $300 on eBay. But for 17" business-class laptops, most people opt for Dell Precisions or HP EliteBooks instead. Get either a Precision M6500 or an HP EliteBook 8740w, and make sure it has 1920x1200 resolution. Both have Core i processors, versus the W700's Core2 Duo.

[Puppy]

Do not take X240, it is the worst of latest post-ThinkPad X models regarding build quality http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=115186

[dr_st]

Maybe it's better to link directly to the relevant discussion, and not hide it in 3 layers of links.

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-Th ... -p/1568150

[Puppy]

Maybe it's better to link directly to the relevant discussion

Well, I was referring to "No. They're just junk that no one wants." comment

As for other X240 FHD IPS issues http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-Th ... -p/1680049

the new display flickers like a CRT - so actually the repair mad things way worse.

I got another display swap today. The new display again is a SPB2 (00HM111) and again shows ghosting out of the box. Also the flickering that has been introduced with the first display swap persists with the new display (I assume it has something to do with the backlight)

[pianowizard]

Do not take X240

Don't worry, the OP isn't at all interested in getting something so small. BTW, I saw an X240 in person two weeks ago, at the same store where I found an X1 Carbon. The X240's footprint looked surprisingly large, due to its thick display bezels.

[acz]

Well, here is where my wife seems to be reaching a conclusion; I think that brand loyalty and keyboard feel are the main factors now. The 17" screens she saw seemed to be on machines with lower build quality, so she will settle for 15.6" screen with 1920x1080 resolution. Perhaps that will make her more likely to use it as a portable PC and not just on her desk.

She considered a Toshiba Satellite from Costco but did not like the keyboard, and there was an online review from a user whose Toshiba was very sensitive to static electricity! She dismissed HP because of bad experiences with Tech Support in the past, and our son told her to avoid Dell for some reason.

So anyway, here is the current target, which prices out to right around 1,000

• Thinkpad E540
  upgrade processor to i7-4702MQ
  Win 7 Pro
  MS Office Student 2013
  15.6" FHD 1920x1080 antiglare screen
  Intel HD Graphics 4600
  upgrade memory 8GB SODIMM (add more memory later)
  500 GB 7200 rpm HD
  DVD recordable
  upgrade to 6 cell 62WH battery
  upgrade to Intel dual band wireless 7260 AC with Bluetooth 4

By going with a new E-series (also called "Edge")
it seems that she is getting a slightly lower build quality that the T and the L models,
but a lower price and therefore a good value.

Thanks to everyone who commented so far, and if any one has comments about the unit just described, it would be appreciated!

[RealBlackStuff]

If you're not going for a T-model, and battery life is important, perhaps consider L540 instead of E540:
http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-219 ... -e540.html
http://www.newtechnology.co.in/compare/ ... 1769,91755
And the Outlet has some nice stuff! (T540p) http://outlet.lenovo.com/outlet_us/item ... X003US/445

[acz]

If you're not going for a T-model, and battery life is important, perhaps consider L540 instead of E540:

Well, after more reading and discussion, I was able to configure an L540 with almost the same specs as the E540, and for almost the same price. The main difference is that I ordered less memory in the L540, since I'll add aftermarket RAM myself.

I noticed that the Lenovo reps do not all have the same story about the Operating System choices, but I'll put that in a different thread.

Thank you very much!

[pianowizard]

She dismissed HP because of bad experiences with Tech Support in the past, and our son told her to avoid Dell for some reason.

The next time you shop for a laptop, be sure to ask whether they had experience with HP Home and Dell Home, versus HP Business and Dell Business. Most consumers only know about HP Home's and Dell Home's craptops. HP Pavilion and Dell Inspiron laptops should definitely be avoided, and I am also skeptical of the pricier HP Envy and Dell XPS lines. By contrast, the Dell Precision and HP EliteBook I recommended earlier are top-notch business-grade laptops that many Thinkpad fans (including members of this forum) consider to be equal to the best Thinkpads.

I wish you had bumped this thread several days earlier because the Dell Business Outlet had a 35% coupon on Black Friday and I saw some fantastic deals on the Precisions, all with 3-year warranty.

[acz]

Thank you pianowizard.

I think you have really hit on something, and your distinction between home-oriented vs. business-oriented machines is a good one. Of course, I think a lot of folks are getting their machines at Costco, Best Buy, or another retailer.

Personally I had no idea that Dell Precisions and HP Elitebooks were that good.

I have not utilized Dell in many years.
My only experiences with HP in recent years were not very good, in two dimensions:
1. their stock went mostly down instead of mostly up
2. stereotypically bad experiences with tech support for HP printers

So your points are well taken for next time; where would I find a 35% Dell coupon?

Meanwhile, do you have an opinion about the Thinkpad that is being built for me right now?

• L540 with
  i7-4702MQ cpu (6MB cache, up to 3.2 GHz)
  win 8.1 pro 64 downgrade win 7 pro 64
  1.6" FHD 1920x1080
  Intel HD graphics 4600
  4GB SODIMM (I'll add 8GB later in the second slot, or maybe 8GB in both slots)
  Ultranav without fingerprint reader
  500GB 7200rmp HD
  DVD recordable
  56 Wh battery
  Intel dual band wireless 7260AC with BT 4.0
  Integrated mobile broadband upgradeable
  1 yr depot or carry-in warranty
  $934 on cyber monday before sales tax

Hope you had a good thanksgiving, black friday, and cyber monday.
I appreciate your thoughts.
A

[pianowizard]

Personally I had no idea that Dell Precisions and HP Elitebooks were that good.

I dare to say that nearly all the Dell Precisions from the past 5 years are excellent. The only exception is that I have less faith in the M3800 because packing so much power into such a thin and light body could cause overheating, although I haven't seen people complain yet. While the Elitebooks are HP's best, they are not as consistently high-quality as the Dell Precisions, but the particular 17" Elitebook I recommended above (8740w) is widely praised. You may also have heard of Dell's other business-class laptop line, the Latitudes. Just like HP's Elitebooks, some Latitudes are good while others aren't so good.

The bottom line is, it's incorrect to label all Dell and HP laptops as bad. It's equally incorrect to assume all Thinkpads or Latitudes or Elitebooks are good, so it's always important to research into specific models. If one is too lazy to do that kind of research, I would say the Dell Precisions and the T-, W- and X-Series Thinkpads are the most consistently good, though of course an occasional dud would still leak through quality check.

So your points are well taken for next time; where would I find a 35% Dell coupon?

As ZaZ mentioned above, Dell Outlet coupons are announced on https://twitter.com/delloutlet . 35% coupons that can be used to buy anything are pretty rare. 20% - 30% coupons happen far more often. Selections change frequently because the best deals are snagged within minutes, especially when a huge coupon is available.

Meanwhile, do you have an opinion about the Thinkpad that is being built for me right now?

• L540 with
  i7-4702MQ cpu (6MB cache, up to 3.2 GHz)
  win 8.1 pro 64 downgrade win 7 pro 64
  1.6" FHD 1920x1080
  Intel HD graphics 4600
  4GB SODIMM (I'll add 8GB later in the second slot, or maybe 8GB in both slots)
  Ultranav without fingerprint reader
  500GB 7200rmp HD
  DVD recordable
  56 Wh battery
  Intel dual band wireless 7260AC with BT 4.0
  Integrated mobile broadband upgradeable
  1 yr depot or carry-in warranty
  $934 on cyber monday before sales tax

Do you really want feedback after you've already bought an item?

[acz]

Meanwhile, do you have an opinion about the Thinkpad that is being built for me right now?

• L540 with
  i7-4702MQ cpu (6MB cache, up to 3.2 GHz)
  win 8.1 pro 64 downgrade win 7 pro 64
  1.6" FHD 1920x1080
  Intel HD graphics 4600
  4GB SODIMM (I'll add 8GB later in the second slot, or maybe 8GB in both slots)
  Ultranav without fingerprint reader
  500GB 7200rmp HD
  DVD recordable
  56 Wh battery
  Intel dual band wireless 7260AC with BT 4.0
  Integrated mobile broadband upgradeable
  1 yr depot or carry-in warranty
  $934 on cyber monday before sales tax

Do you really want feedback after you've already bought an item?

LOL and thank you pianowizard for sharing so generously;
your point is well taken, but I am not defensive about it.
The L540 has not yet arrived.
If it is a big mistake, I suppose it could be returned right away before I add the extra memory stick.
If its only a middling mistake, it would be good to know what problems to anticipate.
There is always the possibility that it will work fine and my wife will be happy with it.

When the time comes to replace my own T61, I will definitely consider Dell Precision as well as a current T model.

[RealBlackStuff]

There's no harm in browsing the various sub-forums we have...
Among other things, you would have found this: Lenovo ThinkPad L540 Honest Review [Long Post]

[acz]

There's no harm in browsing the various sub-forums we have...
Among other things, you would have found this: Lenovo ThinkPad L540 Honest Review [Long Post]

Thank you RealBlackStuff for pointing me to that very thorough review. I learn something new every day.
A

[pianowizard]

your point is well taken, but I am not defensive about it.
The L540 has not yet arrived.
If it is a big mistake, I suppose it could be returned right away before I add the extra memory stick.

But Lenovo charges a 15% restocking fee.

Anyway, since you asked for my feedback: the L540 is slightly above average and the specs you picked are okay. But I am curious why you didn't opt for this T540p with 1920x1080, i5-4300M, 8GB RAM, 500GB 7200rpm HDD and 3-year warranty:

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/th ... ies/t540p/

It has been priced at $649 for probably three weeks now, on Lenovo's regular site (as opposed to the outlet) so you must have come across it before ordering your L540. In fact, I bought one for someone in my lab and it arrived last week. I personally can't stand its clickpad but I bet the L540's clickpad isn't any different.

In the future, be sure to give other forum members more time before placing an order. On Dec 1st, you posted what you were considering at 4:27 PM, and then placed the order at 7:39 PM. Had it been an unprecedented deal, then of course you shouldn't wait for long, but this L540 was most certainly not one. Remember, this is not an online store's chat site where customer representatives are paid to answer questions immediately. While a few people here do check for new posts frequently, many of us check just once or twice a day, and most check even less often than that. Another thing to remember is that not all Black Friday or Cyber Monday deals are great.

Lenovo ThinkPad L540 Honest Review [Long Post]

I am sure A31 believed he was honest but considering that he spent his entire year of income on this L540, I doubt it's a truly unbiased review since under such circumstances many people would subconsciously try to convince themselves the money they spent was worthwhile.

[acz]

Thanks again pianowizard.
All good points.
My first query to the forum was Oct 12, but I did not get around to doing any actual shopping until Dec 1 due to leading an overly busy life, just like everyone these days.
I never saw that $650 T, somehow I missed it since I started with E as a target and moved up to the L, and was shopping at the EPP site instead of the regular site or the outlet site.
I don't certainly do not think of this great site as a chat room, but more as a way of getting an education from smart and thoughtful people, who are generous with their time and knowledge, at those rare times when I buy a new machine or else when a machine gets troublesome.

Thanks very much for all the comments.

[pianowizard]

I never saw that $650 T, somehow I missed it since I started with E as a target and moved up to the L, and was shopping at the EPP site instead of the regular site or the outlet site.

Never assume that EPP sites have the best deals. The Thinkpad EPP site did have the best prices during IBM's era, because at that time Thinkpads were rarely more than 10% off elsewhere, just like Apple's products are today. But ever since Lenovo took over, Lenovo's regular web site has often had deeper discounts than the EPP site. Lenovo and all other merchants want us to assume their EPP sites have the best prices so that we won't check prices elsewhere -- don't fall for that trick again! Also never assume that the T Series is always priced higher than the L Series, or the L Series higher than the E. Finally, always check whether your credit cards provide additional discounts. For instance, I ordered the abovementioned T540p through my Discover Card web site, and earned $64.90 (10% of the pretax price) in cashback!

We all need to make mistakes before we become smarter shoppers. I am a very savvy shopper now, but had to learn a few mistakes before becoming so savvy. I learned three lessons from my very first laptop purchase, in Aug 2002. First, I was told that back-to-school sales were great, which I believed without questioning. Now I understand that back-to-school deals actually tend to be extra lousy because the demand for new computers is super high when students are about to start a new school year, and retailers take advantage of this demand. Second, I should have searched around for coupons or other special deals (e.g. cashback offered by credit cards) before ordering. Just a week or so after placing my order, I stumbled upon a 10% coupon code that had been around for a while -- it would have saved me nearly $200. Third, I placed the order over the phone, and let the customer representative talk me into adding a power surge protector, a bunch of CDRW discs, and a fancy laptop carrying case into my order!

I just remembered one thing: Lenovo's EPP site may not let you return your order even if you didn't mind the 15% restocking fee. At least that was the case several years ago.

[acz]

Lessons learned. Thank you.