Thinkpadders, do NOT Rejoice, WEEP and/or DESPAIR!

[Puppy]

Wondering whether we ever get some insider information about the project background. My feeling is that Lenovo hated the project from the beginning, that's why it has such poor result to confirm their wish "See, people don't like it, it was waste of time". It is anniversary of lost battle

[RealBlackStuff]

I may have shouted too early!
On closer inspection, that picture is most likely "photoshopped" to confuse everybody.
Looking at the "blackness" of the lid and the palmrest, the lid bezel is "blacker" than the palmrest!
And measuring the lid height and palmrest height, there IS a noticeable difference!
The palmrest is higher, so there may be a 16:10 screen with LEDs after all!
Let's hope so...

[Puppy]

To confuse customers by picture of worse product on their own server? Brilliant marketing Now they have only two options, to confirm it or to show the real product. Because bad news spread on the internet very fast.

[pianowizard]

On closer inspection, that picture is most likely "photoshopped"

Not necessarily. Take a look at this side view of a T470: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin ... G_2404.JPG . The lid is lower than the keyboard, and part of the lid is buried underneath the main chassis. Thus, if you push a T470's lid all the way back and take a photo from above, the lid would look smaller than the chassis. Furthermore, if the light source is closer to the palmrest, lighting would differ somewhat between the lid and the palmrest.

But there is still a small ray of hope, because this Thinkpad doesn't exactly match the Thinkpad David Hill's colleague was holding: https://twitter.com/dwhilldesign/status ... 6942108673

[Puppy]

But there is still a small ray of hope, because this Thinkpad doesn't exactly match the Thinkpad David Hill's colleague was holding

The B key seems to be lowered the same way like on the Lenovo server picture but the fingerprint reader next to the Shift key isn't there.

[Summilux]

But there is still a small ray of hope, because this Thinkpad doesn't exactly match the Thinkpad David Hill's colleague was holding

The B key seems to be lowered the same way like on the Lenovo server picture but the fingerprint reader next to the Shift key isn't there.

The differences could be explained by either model being a prototype.

[RealBlackStuff]

Reading that twitter:
David Hill: Blue is the color of the enter key & the letter P on the ThinkPad nameplate.
On the pictures that P is RED, not BLUE.
Is David Hill colorblind as well?
The plot thickens...


Found on Reddit: https://i.imgur.com/m4qXngs.png


And it looks like the T470 itself is already a pile of junk!
Read the |Lenovo Forum and Reddit for the tons of complaints about it.
Do they really expect that a 7-row keyboard will "improve" their lack of decent QC?
See e.g. this: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comme ... ill_never/


Now we REALLY should start to despair: Comparison Retro/T470

[murak]

If there is no thinklight, does that mean that Lenovo made a backlit classic keyboard?

[theterminator93]

Who needs a light on their keyboard?

It's interesting to see all the stuff dug up, but until the official announcement I'm still hoping. Skeptical, but still hoping nevertheless.

[Puppy]

It's interesting to see all the stuff dug up, but until the official announcement I'm still hoping. Skeptical, but still hoping nevertheless.

Note that T470 even does not have WQHD screen option (T470s and T470p only have it) so be prepared for another surprise. The linked image from Reddit above (bid and win) suggest it is treated as "jewel" for partners and probably won't be sold to individuals at all. That's my impression of the whole story now. Forget it ...

[Summilux]

So we have yet to see an official announcement from Lenovo. But because the possibility that we'll be disappointed is extremely real, I'd like to quote Puppy from his post on the Reddit thread and discuss his sentence :

The only solution is to license the old ThinkPad design to some more capable company that can (is willing) to do that.

This idea has already been evoked in the past, and the more time passes, the more Lenovo acts indecently, the more this idea has merits.

IMHO if anyone could pull it, it's the guys at 51nb. These guys have thorough insights on Thinkpads and manufacturing processes, and they get better with each new motherboard generation they release.

I've heard that Hope, the admin of 51nb, had already discussed with the Lenovo brass. Probably didn't lead anywhere (else this thread wouldn't even exist, duh), but that's not the important thing here. What's good is that he presumably has access to them.

So it is plausible to think that 51nb could try to talk Lenovo into licensing older designs, most importantly the keyboard.

The argumentation could go along this line :
« Look, you don't want to release updated old models, and we're not happy with your new models. Let us licence your oldest stuff (T60/X60), even get us to sign a non-competing agreement if you want (e.g. hardware restrictions like not fitting an i7 CPU on the mobo, brandname restrictions, etc.). This way you'll earn money on your old stuff and we will be happier with your company. Win-win. »

The actual production would require partnerships though. 51nb's team is competent but, AFAIK, they still operates quite artisanally ; focusing heavily on the mobos proper whilst salvaging pre-existing, second-hand parts for the laptops' chassis. Plus, they only release small batches of around 60 units in infrequent times.

So 51nb could act as the overall project manager, and maybe also realise some of the work in-house (like the mobos and software). But other stuff like producing the chassis and keyboards would have to be outsourced to OEMs.

Another issue is that of communication. Though they've somewhat active FB accounts, their admins are kinda cryptic and most of the stuff happens in Chinese on 51nb.com anyway. Google Translate helps but doesn't capture all the fine discussions.
This poses an issue if we are to gather Thinkpad lovers from around the world around a 51nb-led community project. So ideally we'd need a Chinese-speaking person who is also conversant in other languages.

If and after Hope could get a licence from Lenovo (and assuming he's willing to participate in the project in the first place), international surveys (like those of D. Hill except with real effects !) could be set up, and Hope could then discuss precise sourcing and pricing matters with suppliers.

I could see us giving 51nb a hand, at the very least in interfacing with non-Chinese people. And since there are plenty of engineers on the forum, maybe some of you guys could also help about hardware and/on software matters.

After everything is in place and the project looks viable, a Kickstarter campaign could be launched.

[Puppy]

So it is plausible to think that 51nb could try to talk Lenovo into licensing older designs, most importantly the keyboard.

Lenovo will never allow that or they'll ask an unrealistic price. They'll rather damage the ThinkPad brand. ThinkPad as laptop is over, the last chance to ressurect it has gone.

[Summilux]

Lenovo will never allow that or they'll ask an unrealistic price. They'll rather damage the ThinkPad brand. ThinkPad as laptop is over, the last chance to ressurect it has gone.

It wouldn't hurt to ask them, repeatedly if necessary. I agree that the Thinkpad brand is dead, but that's an additional reason for use TP users to come up with a legal clone of the proper machines.

The 51nb community already shows that they too experience disappointments with the leak :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... 1MUFISGUsg

https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... id30615233

Also I've stumbled upon a nice article about the « Great or mediocre ThinkPad Lenovo Empire Great history » : https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... opPintzNlg

Conclusion: Lenovo era of IBM actually did a few things:
1 to IBM, into a thorough Lenovo sub-brand;
2. Variable product-oriented to market-oriented, as a technology industry and trade company was born a typical feature is to sell more than the high income. To expand a lot of meaningless front (strategic front chaos), resulting in a substantial decline in the quality of research and development, there is no breakthrough in innovative products, so that we can hardly distinguish thinkpad is Lenovo, or Lenovo is thinkpad.

[Puppy]

Just reminder how the Retro ThinkPad project started



Are two ThinkLights better than one?



Yes, and one is better than zero

[Summilux]

We'll need to put D. Hill in front of his contradictions : T92 vs T470-25

[Ibthink]

We'll need to put D. Hill in front of his contradictions : T92 vs T470-25

And you want to achieve...what exactly by doing so? Just a reminder that David Hill no longer works at Lenovo, he is retired. And he doesn´t decide what gets made and what doesn´t. He is/was just the designer, not the executive with budget powers.

Also this:

My intention in writing this blog and showing renderings of a retro ThinkPad concept is multi-fold. I’d like to test the resilience of building a historically inspired ThinkPad with potential customers and also get overall design feedback as we plan the next generation of ThinkPad offerings. Please remember actually bringing a retro inspired ThinkPad to market would require significant sales volumes to justify the development effort and tooling expense. I can’t promise anything at this point, it’s an idea.

[Puppy]

Just a reminder that David Hill no longer works at Lenovo, he is retired.

Which is much more understandable now.

Please remember actually bringing a retro inspired ThinkPad to market would require significant sales volumes to justify the development effort and tooling expense.[/i]

How can you measure it when the product is not delivered. Not by 100% nor even 50%. T470 with different keyboard only is a bad joke and the only way to explain it is that Lenovo wants to confirm failure of such project intentionaly

[Ibthink]

How can you measure it when the product is not delivered.

I think that means that they used the response to the blog-post and the polls to estimate a projected sales volume.

[Puppy]

I think that means that they used the response to the blog-post and the polls to estimate a projected sales volume.

LOL. They might have used a crystall ball instead. What did they expect, 15000 confirmed orders?

[Summilux]

And you want to achieve...what exactly by doing so? Just a reminder that David Hill no longer works at Lenovo, he is retired.

That's the point ! He's no longer a full time employee (but still does "consultancy" work for them IIRC), so maybe he could finally be honest and tell us why it went from a proper "idea-not-promise" to this ridiculous thing we're about to see.

Alzo why he keeps defending Lenovo, even as he's semi-retired and if he's supposedly more ambitious than the bureaucrats (cf. his last Lenovo-related message on Twitter where he's acting all excited by the abomination he's holding)

Oh and about this famous "consumer research" that lead to the butchered keyboard

Ah and that totally open design process that actually has been completely closed up until the final reveal next month

[Puppy]

That's the point ! He's no longer a full time employee (but still does "consultancy" work for them IIRC), so maybe he could finally be honest and tell us why it went from a proper "idea-not-promise" to this ridiculous thing we're about to see.

Probably not because all NDA and similar stuff are effective forever, even if you leave the company. I expect a book about that 20 years later

There is still one solution to make it less embarrassing, to cancel the product at all or at least to remove the "anniversary" tag.

[Summilux]

Probably not because all NDA and similar stuff are effective forever, even if you leave the company. I expect a book about that 20 years later

« Rise and fall of a Thinkpad designer : The authentic story of David Hill ». Now that's something I'd read ...
... as a PDF file downloaded for free, or course

There is still one solution to make it less embarrassing, to cancel the product at all or at least to remove the "anniversary" tag.

What about turning the tag into a "25th Keyboard Anniversary" ? Like Lenovo would celebrate the keyboard itself (that they also killed, but who cares) and not the entire Thinkpad !

[TPFanatic]

If the P50 can have a status LED so should the Retro.

[Thinkpad4by3]

Also note, that is a render, not a real unit.

Incase anyone is interested, I put together a little comparison between the T92 and the Retro

RED is important changes
GREEN is minor changes

[ajkula66]

LOL. They might have used a crystall ball instead. What did they expect, 15000 confirmed orders?

Somehow I knew that you were going to bring the "15,000" debacle into this conversation....

It's painful to have good memory in many respects but I wouldn't want it any other way...

[Thinkpad4by3]

If the P50 can have a status LED so should the Retro.

Really, one HDD light counts as a status indicator light? Why not have the Thinkpad go along with the current gamer trend and put indivdually customizable software controlled RGB LEDs and have each light represent a certain indication. Anyone want 87 indicator lights? I wouldnt mind it.

[Puppy]

Why not have the Thinkpad go along with the current gamer trend and put indivdually customizable software controlled RGB LEDs and have each light represent a certain indication.

Do you remember X1 Carbon adaptive keyboard? Just another useless stuff Lenovo has spent time and resources on And now it took them more than two years to introduce T470 with different keyboard

[Puppy]

Also note, that is a render, not a real unit.

It is render but it seems as the T470-25 does not have the classic deep black color case

[Ibthink]

And now it took them more than two years to introduce T470 with different keyboard

The T470 itself was just introduced this year. And supposedly they wanted to wait for the anniversary with the special model, which explains the additional wait-time.

It is render but it seems as the T470-25 does not have the classic deep black color case

It is just a render. The T470 is black.

[Puppy]

The T470 itself was just introduced this year. And supposedly they wanted to wait for the anniversary with the special model, which explains the additional wait-time.

In the beginning the plan was to introduce special model which is clear from the linked article, not just sligthly modified regular T470 laptop. The interesting part is when the team has given up on the original idea and moved to this ridiculous situation (especially if there won't be WQHD display option because of T470 base).