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Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

X60/X61 series specific matters only.
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xiphmont
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Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#1 Post by xiphmont » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:56 am

Hi folks, I've recently written a quick blog post I should have written years ago. After several email queries this month, I finally wrote it:

https://xiphmont.dreamwidth.org/90510.html

I'll reproduce it [mildly abridged] here, you can follow the link above for the original post with inline images. The content is harsh but hopefully fair.

~~~~~~

Most 'new' HV121P01-100 SXGA+ screens for sale on ebay, AliExpress, etc, are neither genuine nor new.

The HV121P01-100 is the screen every X60/61/62 ThinkPad modder wants. It's a reasonably high-resolution AFFS (IPS-like) screen originally offered as an option on the X60 tablet, and with a Daylight LED kit, it has excellent brightness and good (though not excellent) color accuracy. They're commonly available on eBay, Alibaba, DHgate, etc.

Except they're not.

A slightly later version of the screen, the HV121P01-101, was an option on the X61 tablet, but it had a fatal flaw. Unlike the earlier version, the -101 was bonded to a glass front-surface using a 'permanent' optical adhesive. This adhesive was not in fact very permanent. It flowed when it got warm, leaving bubbles behind the glass, and a sticky, impenetrable goo all over everything.

Ever get pine sap all over your hands and try to clean it off? Same thing. No really; the optical adhesive is a purified pine tar. Mmm, I do love that Christmas tree smell.

In any case, the HV121P01-101 turned out to be a warranty disaster and there were tons of these screens left over that no one could use.

A few modders got reasonably good at removing the front glass and adhesive through sheer force of will and infinite effort. This task is seriously involved. I tried it. I wasn't patient enough to get better than about a 50% success rate and it sure wasn't worth the time--- especially when you could just buy a -100 version of the screen without the problem.

These days, there are no more cheap -100 screens. Enter Chinese entrepreneurs and a large quantity of similar, unsold -101 screens.

Rather than spending hours of careful mechanical work removing the glass fronts and adhesive from the -101 screens, you can just dump the screens into a big vat of hot solvent. Of the solvents I've tried, xylene is cheap and works well. The solvent dissolves all the adhesive away over a few days, and the glass falls right off. No fuss!

This would be a brilliant solution except for one problem: it messes up the front polarizer film that's also bonded to the glass LCD matrix.

Good polarizers cost more to produce than the glass LCD matrix itself. BOE/Hydis used very nice polarizers on these screens. Removing the adhesive with heat/solvents damages this expensive polarizer.

The damage looks a little like a kind of 'old-timey picture-tube' filter:

large pic WARNING ----> https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/think ... o-crt1.jpg

The above screen was being fed vertical lines for whatever reason, it's the ring of discoloration around the edge I'm talking about. Below is a more subtly damaged screen that wasn't obvious until the backlight got replaced:

medium pic warning ---> https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/think ... o-crt2.jpg

Depending on the exact process, the damage can be subtle or obvious. If the damage isn't 'too bad', the screen is just sold as is, and these screens are definitely out there in the wild (see above). I know a few people who didn't notice (or weren't bothered by it) until installing a brighter backlight that made it more obvious. That's how I got the pics (thanks guys!).

When the polarizer damage is too obvious, the screen rebuilder can strip off the damaged polarizer film and install a new one. Like I said, good polarizers are really expensive, and I will say from personal experience that these rebuilders are, in general, not using good polarizers.

Cheap polarizers make for poor contrast, and cause color shifts at an angle which kind-of negates the whole point of the fancy AFFS screen.

Honest resellers are up-front when the polarizer has been replaced, and the protective plastic over the surface of the new polarizer will still be there when the screen arrives. Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be a decent one. There's no way to tell ahead of time, but I personally won't bet on it.

The less honest resellers won't tell you, or will claim the screen is all new. Right now, this is also easy to spot!

BOE/Hydis original polarizers are always beveled at the corners:

large pic warning----> https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/think ... 01-100.jpg

Replacement polarizers are not:

large pic warning ----> https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/think ... 01-100.jpg

I suppose dishonest rebuilders will eventually catch onto this trick and begin beveling their edges too, but so far they haven't.

Oh, and it can get worse.

Solvents will also destroy most of the other components in the screen. Some rebuilders carefully separate the parts and only dunk the glass matrices, limiting the damage to the bonded polarizer. Others just dunk the whole darn screen and let everything dissolve except for the frame, electronics and matrix. These screens then have to be built up entirely from spare parts.

In short, many of the HV121P01-100 screens you see for sale *don't have a single HV121P01-100 part in them*.

Those stickers that say 'HV121P01-100'? Fake, altered, or transferred from other screens. That closeup of 'HV121P01' stamped into the front frame? Note that it doesn't say '-100' or '-101'.

Conclusion:

Do these rebuilt screens work? Yes. The problem is that many aren't going to be anywhere close to the original performance specs. The contrast will be lower, the brightness low/uneven, the colors poor or unstable, at least relative to the original screen, which was no performance monster to begin with.

Is that still worth ~ $100? You might say yes! The important thing is to know what you're getting and be able to make an informed decision. Otherwise you're playing a lottery and trusting the ticket-seller to tell you if you've won.

Of course, you might get lucky and get a real -100! If you do, let me know, I've not seen one in years, and I'd really like to know where I can get some.

So how do I find a real HV121P01-100?

No guarantees, but look for a few things.

Is the front 'glass' (acrylic on a real -100) still in place?
Is the original digitizer still on the back? It's the rust-and-green flexy circuit board that provides the pen input on the tablet screen.
Does the screen still have its tablet-mounting tabs?
Is any of the frame tape cut, or are the internal diffuser film clips mysteriously missing (probably because the replacement diffuser films don't actually fit properly)?
Is the listing using a stock pic (with a custom watermark) used by ten other resellers? Bad sign.

Not to pick on this specific seller (I doubt they know much about what they're selling), but here's a pic that hits almost all of the red flags all in one ad:

large pic WARNING --> https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/thinkpad/ad-omgno.jpg

The digitizer is missing, the front acrylic is missing, the clips that hold the internal diffuser films in place are missing, the sealing tape along the bottom of the frame is cut, and the plastic cover with the 'HV121P01-100' sticker and serial number has obviously been transferred from another screen. Best of all, this is a stock pic, or rather, the exact pic is being used by 6 or 7 eBay sellers right now. They care so little about their listing, they're using a pic of a screen that's obviously been rebuilt from parts, not even trying to hide it, and the screen is listed as 'new'.

WELL DONE. I TOTALLY TRUST YOU.

In any case, the best way to screen out sellers is probably just to contact the seller up front and ask specific questions. Most are just resellers, and have no idea what they're selling, but you can at least ask for pics of an actual screen for sale. Any evasion from the seller is a pretty good indication you should walk away.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#2 Post by flyingfishfinger » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:14 am

Interesting. My SXGA+ has the damaged polarizer pattern sometimes (when it gets hot / close the lid with the screen on), but I get a white ring around the edge with that exact shape.

Is that the same or something else? I pulled this from a tablet with everything on it (clips, digitizer, front plate) so I doubt it's a knock-off...

R

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#3 Post by xiphmont » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:26 am

flyingfishfinger wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:14 am
Interesting. My SXGA+ has the damaged polarizer pattern sometimes (when it gets hot / close the lid with the screen on), but I get a white ring around the edge with that exact shape.

Is that the same or something else? I pulled this from a tablet with everything on it (clips, digitizer, front plate) so I doubt it's a knock-off...

R
Innnnteresting. And just to be clear a -100? it's from a tablet you bought new, or bought later? I'd love to pop the frame on that and have a close look at it.

[edit: There are probably a number of things that can damage the polarizer. They're generally just light-active organics embedded in the polyester film, and if the tech used is sublimation... I don't know that it is...]

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#4 Post by flyingfishfinger » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm

It was an Ebay acquisition many years ago, but unless someone took the trouble to remove everything, replace the screen and put the digitizer and front plate back on...no idea.

Send me a PM if you're interested in a lid swap / trade and want to inspect this one..

R

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#5 Post by xiphmont » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 pm

flyingfishfinger wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
It was an Ebay acquisition many years ago, but unless someone took the trouble to remove everything, replace the screen and put the digitizer and front plate back on...no idea.
...hmm, well, I always do... (I don't sell on eBay though)
flyingfishfinger wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
Send me a PM if you're interested in a lid swap / trade and want to inspect this one..
I'm always interested in more data! Seriously, regardless the reason for the damage, I'd like to see it/study it a bit. PM with what you'd like in trade, or I'll hit you up in a day or two while I'm catching up wth LED kit orders. I have lots of extra NOS parts, though no NOS screens right now (all my screens have been tampered with, either by me or by the original seller).

Cheers,
Monty

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#6 Post by fourthree » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 am

There goes my dream for an SXGA/QXGA 61 X/T thinkpads.. :(

If I ever do find one, do you do the whole removal + LED installation? It goes against my DIY ethic but experience shows that knowing your limits is more important than hoping to get stuff done right.

By the way, what are your thoughts about the 12.3 UXGA inside an X61? This is the panel http://www.panelook.com/LD123UX1-SMA1_L ... 26101.html but it's slightly larger and it uses MIPI instead of LVDS - quite a bummer. Not sure if it's even possible, honestly.
Dorkstation: T601f
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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#7 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:23 am

fourthree wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 am
There goes my dream for an SXGA/QXGA 61 X/T thinkpads.. :(

If I ever do find one, do you do the whole removal + LED installation? It goes against my DIY ethic but experience shows that knowing your limits is more important than hoping to get stuff done right.

By the way, what are your thoughts about the 12.3 UXGA inside an X61? This is the panel http://www.panelook.com/LD123UX1-SMA1_L ... 26101.html but it's slightly larger and it uses MIPI instead of LVDS - quite a bummer. Not sure if it's even possible, honestly.
51NB will find a way. They always find a way.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#8 Post by NonesensE » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:56 pm

fourthree wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 am
By the way, what are your thoughts about the 12.3 UXGA inside an X61? This is the panel http://www.panelook.com/LD123UX1-SMA1_L ... 26101.html but it's slightly larger and it uses MIPI instead of LVDS - quite a bummer. Not sure if it's even possible, honestly.
I'm on it, but it's not easy. I'm trying to use Lattice Crosslink with the OpenLDI/LVDS to MIPI DSI IP as an adaptor.
Sometimes coming over from the German forum...
X62s 3rd batch, [s]T61[/s] T70 14" 4:3 1st batch

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#9 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:42 pm

So are you telling me a seller on eBay selling SXGA+ displays with 60K stars & 99% feedback is a phony?
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#10 Post by xiphmont » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:53 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:42 pm
So are you telling me a seller on eBay selling SXGA+ displays with 60K stars & 99% feedback is a phony?
I'm telling you *several* of them are selling rebuilt (aka phony) screens, yes.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#11 Post by fourthree » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:21 pm

NonesensE wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:56 pm
I'm on it, but it's not easy. I'm trying to use Lattice Crosslink with the OpenLDI/LVDS to MIPI DSI IP as an adaptor.
Sweet. Does the lid require modding? That would be my first practical concern.
Dorkstation: T601f
Ultraportable: X61s

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#12 Post by NonesensE » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:28 pm

fourthree wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:21 pm
NonesensE wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:56 pm
I'm on it, but it's not easy. I'm trying to use Lattice Crosslink with the OpenLDI/LVDS to MIPI DSI IP as an adaptor.
Sweet. Does the lid require modding? That would be my first practical concern.
I have yet to remove the touch glass in front of the display, but I wanted to get the electrics working first. On a first glance, it should fit a TMD (ultralight display) lid without modding (except cutting the rubber display holders slightly). A normal lid may require some modding as the UXGA display has no eyelets to fix it to the lid. Shouldn't be too hard, though.
Sometimes coming over from the German forum...
X62s 3rd batch, [s]T61[/s] T70 14" 4:3 1st batch

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#13 Post by flyingfishfinger » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:35 pm

I wonder if we can preserve the touch feature on that screen! That would be amazing.
Were you able to get the software to build correctly the 2nd time around, by the way?

R

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#14 Post by wileE » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:41 am

Just saw this on aliexpress: https://imgur.com/LOtQGMr

The DUPONT DISLAY ENHANCEMENTS (= DuPont Vertak direct-bonding adhesive) sticker belongs on a -101 screen, never on a -100.
So on this screen at least the -100 sticker is fake.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#15 Post by CPC464 » Sat May 19, 2018 7:57 am

Thank you for your comprehensive post!

Too late for me, here's one that has been already ripped off.

I suspected that, for the price I've paid (Eur 78, shipping included), there was a refurbished -or fake- LCD, but I tried it.

I've been relatively lucky. I've the LCD already mounted in my X61, and colors/contrast are OK side by side with my original SXGA+ X60T. Viewing angles are not as good as in the X60T, but only by a very slight margin.

After some hour of continous use, mine shows a slight "CRT TV effect", but it is only noticeable with maxed out brightness and a totally black, uniform picture on the screen, I can live with it
.
In my case, this SXGA+ LCD has been an improvement over the IPS XGA, but now I see how risky is it. And I didn't pay that much, but there are chinese sellers selling these screens for much more three times the price I've paid!

BTW, I suffered this "CRT TV effect" many years ago, in a B/W Compaq LTE lite I used to have. You powered it on, and the TFT screen was OK. After some time of being working, the corners began to become clearer, and after some hours there were almost white and you had to turn off the laptop and wait the TFT to cool down.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#16 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sat May 26, 2018 5:38 pm

Off topic but how was the TFT Mono screen on the LTE Lite 4/25E?
CPC464 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:57 am
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#17 Post by CPC464 » Mon May 28, 2018 12:24 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 5:38 pm
Off topic but how was the TFT Mono screen on the LTE Lite 4/25E?
CPC464 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:57 am
I liked it, it was nice, with good contrast (in that era), and the "B/W effect" had a special charm. It was much better in terms of contrast than standard non TFT screens.

I remember playing Transport Tycoon on it and never knowing if the traffic lights in the game were red or green :D

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#18 Post by WarhawkCZ » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:07 am

NonesensE wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:56 pm
fourthree wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 am
By the way, what are your thoughts about the 12.3 UXGA inside an X61? This is the panel http://www.panelook.com/LD123UX1-SMA1_L ... 26101.html but it's slightly larger and it uses MIPI instead of LVDS - quite a bummer. Not sure if it's even possible, honestly.
I'm on it, but it's not easy. I'm trying to use Lattice Crosslink with the OpenLDI/LVDS to MIPI DSI IP as an adaptor.
Any progress with the project?
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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#19 Post by Arc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:28 pm

Tangentially related question, I have a pair of X60s-es with spotty screens so I'm scouting for replacements. It's not just a drop-in replacement for IPS screens, is it? (Even with just the XGA one.) In this somewhat old guide for putting an IPS in non-Tablets, it mentions a converter cable is required, but the eBay link is long dead and I can't find any information about where to get this sort of cable. Where could I get one? And with that in mind, what screens are compatible with X62 mobos?

I suppose if it's all too complicated I'll just get the regular ultralight TN screens, I guess the risk of something broken from shady AliExpress sellers is way less, right. Trying to balance my desire to be a screen snob with the effort of it all!
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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#20 Post by Cigarguy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:40 pm

X60T and X61T complete screen assembly are 100% compatible with each other. It's a simple swap and I've got a few machines with a X60T lid (SXGA+ screen, colour logo) attached to a X61T body.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#21 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:57 pm

Arc wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:28 pm
Tangentially related question, I have a pair of X60s-es with spotty screens so I'm scouting for replacements. It's not just a drop-in replacement for IPS screens, is it? (Even with just the XGA one.) In this somewhat old guide for putting an IPS in non-Tablets, it mentions a converter cable is required, but the eBay link is long dead and I can't find any information about where to get this sort of cable. Where could I get one? And with that in mind, what screens are compatible with X62 mobos?
Regarding the adapter, either you make one, or modify the existing cable. Not sure if they're available in Taobao or Aliexpess.

The X62 board is compatible with the regular X60/61 screens, The ones that are sold by HOPE and his team with IPS screens use an adapter cable, which they probably made themselves.

Addendum:

The X60/61 IPS upgrade is very far from "drop-in replacement". Aside from the converter cable, you also have to remove the mounting tabs near the corners. Without the right tools and technique, you can end up cracking the screen-- I speak from personal experience (and tragedy) as I broke one. :eek: :(

If you end up getting a screen with the protective glass still attached, you have to remove that too. Just pray you don't get one from an X61 Tablet, as the glass is bonded to the screen with a very sticky goo that's a pain in the backside to remove.
Last edited by axur-delmeria on Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#22 Post by xiphmont » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:56 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:57 pm
Arc wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:28 pm
Tangentially related question, I have a pair of X60s-es with spotty screens so I'm scouting for replacements. It's not just a drop-in replacement for IPS screens, is it? (Even with just the XGA one.) In this somewhat old guide for putting an IPS in non-Tablets, it mentions a converter cable is required, but the eBay link is long dead and I can't find any information about where to get this sort of cable. Where could I get one? And with that in mind, what screens are compatible with X62 mobos?
Regarding the adapter, either you make one, or modify the existing cable. Not sure if they're available in Taobao or Aliexpess.

The X62 board is compatible with the regular X60/61 screens, The ones that are sold by HOPE and his team with IPS screens use an adapter cable, which they probably made themselves.
Correct on all counts. Beware buying cables on alibaba as well--- I bought a lot of 100 for way too much money to convert, and nearly 75% are bad--- the LVDS lines work, but random status LED lines and especially the bluetooth lines tend to be cracked.
Know your seller! I keep making this mistake myself, and it bites me hard a good half of the time.

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Legit SXGA screens available!

#23 Post by xiphmont » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:04 pm

I think I have some good news with respect to SXGA screens; I bought a number on a few occasions from a specific AliExpress seller who appear to have legit stock. Details in another post here: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=126895

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Learned something new last night

#24 Post by xiphmont » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:24 pm

https://xiphmont.dreamwidth.org/92996.html

tl;dr summary: many (most?) of the 12" HV121P01 SXGA screens with a 'bathtub ring' or 'retro-tv' effect around the edges are not defective, VR1 simply got knocked out of adjustment.

THE WHOLE STORY:

This is one of those occasions where I feel like a complete idiot and simultaneously wonder how nobody else noticed this before.

I experimented a while back with chemically stripping the front glass off HV121P01-101 screens, since these were plentiful (at the time) but you had to remove the glass and bonding adhesive to use them in an X61/X62. Mechanical stripping is labor intensive to put it mildly, and using xylene or alcohol seemed like a useful shortcut. It worked, but it also damaged the polarizer films in exactly the way illustrated in the picture.

At the same time, people were getting reclaimed screens from China showing the exact same effect. I got one or two of these myself, and the polarizer films were in fact damaged just like I saw on the screens I stripped.

And I assumed from there on out that chemical/heat stripping was the only explanation of the effect. Which turns out to be terribly wrong.

Most LCD screens have a variable resistor adjustment as part of a temperature/drive compensation circuit. I played with it on many screens in the past, and it was a way to alter either the absolute drive or overdrive speed of the entire screen, usually affecting gamma and contrast in some fashion.

That's not what it does on an HV121P01.

I was modding some of the screens I'd recently bought for LED backlight, screens which I'd tested carefully on receipt and found no defects. After modding, three turned up 'bathtub ring' defects when tested. The defect appeared spontaneously, and others had noted this happen after doing an LED mod. At the time, this was deeply disappointing, perplexing and expensive. I was not going to sell any defective screens no matter how subtle the defect.

Did the LED mod cause the fault? It had been near 100% humidity in NH all that week, did that do it? Was it a fault that was always there and only showed up with LEDs? Or was it always there and I had simply missed it?

I peeled and inspected the polarizers on one screen; this panel had a replacement polarizer that was glossy, so it wasn't going to be saleable anyway. And if chemical stripping had caused the defect, missed till now, why did the *replacement* films show the problem? They didn't, in fact--- after removal and testing, they were faultless, perfectly regular in every way.

I queued up a second panel for testing (I didn't want to burn my own replacement films on a potentially bad panel). Everything about it looked perfect until I was displaying low-brightness gray-to-gray stipple patterns, and that's when the bathtub pattern appeared. Could it be some sort of mismatched signal drive? I looked at VR1, which I'd never touched because I was sure I knew what it did.

So I tweaked it. And the problem got worse. I tweaked it the other direction and the problem disappeared.

I'm still testing in detail to make sure this isn't multiple unnoticeable problems stacking up into a noticeable one, but it sure looks to me right now that this is an adjustment to balance panel drive in the center versus the edges of the screen. It's normally fixed after adjustment at the factory with a little lacquer, but it's not the slightest bit surprising it might get knocked loose or dissolved during rebuilding or modding.

VR1 probably can't mitigate a genuinely frotzed polarizer but it's obviously worth trying it just to see if it was never the polarizer at all.

wileE
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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#25 Post by wileE » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:25 pm

I tweaked it the other direction and the problem disappeared.
By how much did you turn it?

Tried it on a screen without the retro-tv effect with no visible effect.
I have two screens with darker left side edge and corners. But I cannot imagine how I could have managed to change the adjustment of VR1 when modding the screen. I do not have your problem with the fake screens. I know that mine are all original -101.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#26 Post by xiphmont » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:38 pm

wileE wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:25 pm
I tweaked it the other direction and the problem disappeared.
By how much did you turn it?

Tried it on a screen without the retro-tv effect with no visible effect.
I have two screens with darker left side edge and corners. But I cannot imagine how I could have managed to change the adjustment of VR1 when modding the screen. I do not have your problem with the fake screens. I know that mine are all original -101.
I only see it show up in very specific dim colors/textures, it's not an all-the-time thing. eg, try this background: https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/think ... ground.png

Also, given that this was evidence I didn't have the full story before, I'll also take it as an suggestion I likely don't yet have the full story now :-)

Monty

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#27 Post by wileE » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:53 pm

Thanks, but I do have lots of dark gray test images.

I can say that the retro-tv effect can get better by time. Takes several months.

I always thought the effect was due to static electricity in the layers of the screen. But that was simly guessing.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#28 Post by xiphmont » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:27 pm

wileE wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:53 pm
Thanks, but I do have lots of dark gray test images.
*nod*, just giving you my specific worst-case test screen for the examples here.
wileE wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:53 pm
I can say that the retro-tv effect can get better by time. Takes several months.

I always thought the effect was due to static electricity in the layers of the screen. But that was simly guessing.
Gathering more data points doesn't eliminate the guessing, but it does perhaps make the guesses better over time :-)
I'm waiting to hear back from a few others w.r.t. their retro-tv screens.

How many have you had pass through your hands? Did you have nay other theories you tested and discarded?

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#29 Post by wileE » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:52 am

I have had 11 -101 screens pass through my hands. And I remember seeing the retro-tv effect several times over the years.
No theories as to the cause.

Here is a picture from the german forum of a T60 with a very similar effect:
https://imgur.com/qej2GWS
Cause unknown, and it went away after several hours by itself.

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Re: Don't get ripped off on an SXGA+ screen for your X61/X62

#30 Post by flyingfishfinger » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:57 am

Mine happens specifically when I close the screen but don't turn it off. That seems to me like it's a temperature problem or something, since the screen would be heated up by the laptop body (maybe).

In my case the edge turns completely white, regardless of what's being displayed and I can repeatedly make it happen. When I open the screen back up it fades after a few hours.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1T9b1xCrSVk5QD9L9

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