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lenovo near to being dumped

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BillMorrow
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lenovo near to being dumped

#1 Post by BillMorrow » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:43 pm

here is the story copied from here: https://www.channelnews.com.au/lenovo-i ... -exchange/
Consumer electronics company Lenovo is close to being booted from Hong Kong stock market index, the Hang Seng Index.

Its shares have been tumbling more than other technology company in the world, Bloomberg reports.

Lenovo is being dubbed, ‘the world’s worst tech stock’ since it was added to the Hang Seng index more than five years ago it has fallen 56 per cent wiping out approximately US$5.6bn in value.

Other companies which have been dropped from the Hang Seng index have seen their value drop a median of 48 per cent before being axed, according to Bloomberg.

Reports say Lenovo’s stock is the most shorted on the Hang Seng Index with 13.8 per cent of its shares available for trade on loan to short-sellers.

The ThinkPad creator sank to its lowest price yesterday due to a US ban on ZTE corp plus a global selloff by hardware manufacturers.

Closer to home, Lenovo is targeting competitors HP and Dell this year to try and grow their share in the B2B, B2C, enterprise and PC markets.

Lenovo was added to the Hang Seng index in March 2013.
with any luck there is an angel who will buy the former IBM PC business (and the thinkpad brand) before the lenovo ship sinks out of sight..
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Geartooth
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#2 Post by Geartooth » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:13 pm

Lenovo is on the HK Trading Market?
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#3 Post by Cigarguy » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:24 am

I smell Chinese government manipulation. Doubt they care about their stock prices. That's a game of the Capitalist West. The Chinese government will not let one of their biggest and most prestigious tech company fail. Too much of a hit on national pride. Similar to the Olympics in Russia and China, they'll throw more money at it.

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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#4 Post by jdrou » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:25 pm

Assuming the HK market is similar to US markets, being de-listed from the exchange doesn't mean they'd be out of business nor even that their stock couldn't be traded.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#5 Post by exTPfan » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:31 pm

As far as I can tell, this is all about the threat of US sanctions and penalties on Chinese companies for alleged violations of US law --- first ZTE, now Huawei, next ???
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#6 Post by gfuller » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:25 am

Cigarguy wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:24 am
I smell Chinese government manipulation. Doubt they care about their stock prices. That's a game of the Capitalist West. The Chinese government will not let one of their biggest and most prestigious tech company fail. Too much of a hit on national pride. Similar to the Olympics in Russia and China, they'll throw more money at it.
I agree. I feel that they (the Chinese government) will try to keep Lenovo afloat as long as possible, although they're not the traditional Chinese company that has a lot of government intervention.
BillMorrow wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:43 pm
with any luck there is an angel who will buy the former IBM PC business (and the thinkpad brand) before the lenovo ship sinks out of sight..
I know the reason why IBM sold their PC business. But I honestly don't think it would be a terrible idea for IBM to perhaps think about getting back into the PC business if the opportunity arises.

I feel that there would be a somewhat large demand for ThinkPad, ThinkCentre and ThinkStation systems if IBM went back to manufacturing them. I hear a lot of people complain about how the IBM ThinkPad's were superior in almost every which way, and that Lenovo let the quality slip. (Although that is often disputed.) Then again, I know why they did it - IBM wasn't making enough of a profit off it, so they sold it to focus on bigger and better things. (At least that's the jist of it.) Another factor that plays into that is how the majority of consumers see it. Sure, computer enthusiasts like a majority of the people on this forum would love to see IBM go back to making PCs, but everyone else wouldn't care.

Then again, IBM has made it clear they're wanting to focus on Watson, quantum computing, and some other niche things. Which, unfortunately, I don't see ending too well for Big Blue. I've heard from many people that IBM is a sucky place to work where you are in constant fear of being laid off, and they've abandoned many of the things they were once known for - such as the PC, processors [now they've gone fabless], and even downsizing their mainframe departments. I know just as many people who worked for IBM or alongside people who worked for IBM back before the 1990s and they loved it. The culture was odd (described to me as a "cult") but you never had to worry about getting laid off as long as you did your jobs. Then the 1990s came and IBM was almost wiped out, but they somehow survived and here we are today. (One guy that I know was a [mainframe] computer operator from 1968 all the way up to 2009 and he worked alongside IBM CE's and other professionals. He acted like they loved it.)

I could go more in depth and talk about where I think IBM is going and the same for mainframe computing, but that would derail this entire topic and I've got a feeling nobody would want to hear it anyways. :jhem:
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#7 Post by jdrou » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:58 am

exTPfan wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:31 pm
As far as I can tell, this is all about the threat of US sanctions and penalties on Chinese companies for alleged violations of US law --- first ZTE, now Huawei, next ???
Except that if you look at history Lenovo stock has been pretty weak for a couple of years already; the halo effect of the ZTE ban is just making it a bit worse and probably making it more 'newsworthy'.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#8 Post by Summilux » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:27 pm

:bow: Finally my death wish will come true :twisted:
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#9 Post by thinkpadcollection » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:43 pm

There are blunders in designs:

Poor LCD on low end configurations, lame discrete GPU both lack of 128bit VRAM for GPU also lack of options of mid range and high end GPUs for consumer, pro-consumer and business GPUs across thinkpad and Idea.

No dual channel memory abilities in last several of generations of Lenovo's X2xx 12.5" notebooks (only a slot which hurts iGPU and CPU memory bandwidth and poor memory size options, like need for two modules of 8GB even 16GB or 32GB to make 32GB total or 64GB total as desired.

In P series thinkpads: 1 heatpipe or tied together in middle to share both GPU and CPU in middle with two fans at both outer ends is asking for cooling inefficiency. Should be separate heatpipes like two heatsinks to both ends but GPU also have own different heatsink on one end or both ends with own fins.

Too low end i5 and no option to order high end i5 or i7 and lack of quad in other unusual models like 12.5" either. No high end i5 or i7 with high end integrated GPU options.

Can get what you wanted with HP or Dell but not either all like dreaded aluminum heatsink (infamously done by Dell's despite the users complaints of CPU/GPU throttling). Lenovo's case especially with P series notebooks: heatsink fins where best design like thru heatsink fins in middle so heatpipe can be cooled on both sides thru the fins or all copper fins with thicker copper plate to make up for ends coming short or due to bends soldered to fins missing some of fins. More importantly, removable fans for quick cleaning.

Lately, lack of GPU in a form of MXM 3.0A or 3.0B in 15.6" and 17" models with flexible whitelist, like HP for HP, or Lenovo's for Lenovo. For example take a HP/Compaq Envy GT640M MXM successfully placed in Ultraslim HP computer or into a Elitebook 15.6" by choice of user. Ditto with wireless and WWAN so they can upgrade as time goes on.

Cheers, thinpadcollection

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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#10 Post by portsample » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:24 pm

Won't break my heart seeing TPs find a new manufacturer. It is fun to think about IBM picking up the brand again and watching TPs take over the ISS again. Maybe Intel will pick up the brand? If Intel is going into the drone market, why not laptops?
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#11 Post by Ibthink » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:54 pm

The most likely outcome is Lenovo spinning off its un-successful Smartphone business, not bankruptcy for the whole company or an acquisition by another. Lenovo PCs make money. Lenovo Smartphones burn money. They are using the PC profits to cover their Smartphone losses. This can't go on forever.
portsample wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:24 pm
It is fun to think about IBM picking up the brand again and watching TPs take over the ISS again. Maybe Intel will pick up the brand? If Intel is going into the drone market, why not laptops?
IBM sold their x86 server division to Lenovo four years ago, I would imagine they have less than zero interest to get back into the PC business.

For Intel on the other hand, this would make even less sense, as Intel is making much more money from selling CPUs to the OEMs. Selling PCs isn't as profitable as selling CPUs in an almost monopoly. So Intel making PCs makes no sense, as it would only harm their business connection to Dell & HP, which would be Intels competitors in such a case.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#12 Post by Omineca » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:11 pm

jdrou wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:25 pm
Assuming the HK market is similar to US markets, being de-listed from the exchange doesn't mean they'd be out of business nor even that their stock couldn't be traded.
I thought at first that the issue was the company being de-listed as well (because of the very misleading headline), but that's not it. They're just considering removing it from the group of stocks that form the basis for the index (which is like the Dow Jones), not de-listing the company from the exchange.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#13 Post by Summilux » Sun May 06, 2018 8:29 am

portsample wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:24 pm
Maybe Intel will pick up the brand? If Intel is going into the drone market, why not laptops?
Sadly they've just killed their smart glasses project. If they shut off their entry into a promising space, I'm afraid they'd be even less inclined to invest in the endangered laptop market.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#14 Post by exTPfan » Thu May 10, 2018 5:19 am

exTPfan wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:31 pm
As far as I can tell, this is all about the threat of US sanctions and penalties on Chinese companies for alleged violations of US law --- first ZTE, now Huawei, next ???
There's a story in this morning's NY Times saying ZTE maybe forced to close because the US "has blocked its access to American-made components until 2025, saying the company failed to punish employees who violated trade controls against Iran and North Korea". ZTE has $17 billion in sales around the world, so this would be a major disruption.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#15 Post by madicetea » Thu May 10, 2018 8:33 am

exTPfan wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:19 am
exTPfan wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:31 pm
As far as I can tell, this is all about the threat of US sanctions and penalties on Chinese companies for alleged violations of US law --- first ZTE, now Huawei, next ???
There's a story in this morning's NY Times saying ZTE maybe forced to close because the US "has blocked its access to American-made components until 2025, saying the company failed to punish employees who violated trade controls against Iran and North Korea". ZTE has $17 billion in sales around the world, so this would be a major disruption.
I wonder though if this was selectively pushed upon ZTE. I think some other companies, probably including US Defense contractors, must occasionally find business with Iran and North Korea. Heck, I think it sad that my Japanese friend can go to Iran freely and celebrate Eid-Al-Fitr with everyone there, but I cannot go to the country without worrying what US customs will say to me upon my return.

While it may be a "major disruption" ZTE will survive it just fine. If anything, this morning's news should help strengthen brand recognition for ZTE in the rest of the world.
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Re: lenovo near to being dumped

#16 Post by BillMorrow » Fri May 11, 2018 4:00 pm

not familiar with ZTE or some of the other chinese companies selling high tech to the USA mojor corporations and government BUT i must admit that i am NOT unaware that there could be back doors into these devices allowing chinese intel to monitor the data flow, etc. without the users being aware..

let us all recall all the hacks into the US federal computer systems as well as major corporate servers, etc..
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