OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

[ajkula66]

PS: not being able to prove something occurred may not prove it didn’t happen but it sure does it make it more likely it didn’t.

I see that you're still a master of your craft, old friend... ....and am very happy to see you here again.

As for "more likely that it didn't"...having lived the life that I did, I would beg to differ.

To each their own.

[RealBlackStuff]

I totally agree with George.
Having lived for 13 years in that infamous Commonwealth, I'm glad I left PA (and the USA) before all your current hell broke loose.

[mpcook]

Now Roger Stone says, incontrovertibly, that North Korean boats delivered ballots through a Maine harbor for the 2020 election. For real.

"I just learned of absolute incontrovertible evidence of North Korean boats delivering ballots through a harbor in Maine, the state of Maine," Stone said. "If this checks out, if law enforcement looked into that and it turned out to be true, it would be proof of foreign involvement in the election."

I am two blocks from a railway station and I could have sworn I saw boxcars full of ballots being unloaded on election day here in Ohio. The cars said "Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Co." on the side.

Umm, yeah.

https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone-sa ... ud-1551937

[rkawakami]

If true, then those ballots had the name "Trump" selected on them. Makes more sense than if Biden were to be the recipient of Dear Respected Kim's largess. Since Mr. Stone's allegations don't seem to have a shred of supporting evidence (his word is hearsay; no photos, videos, actual ballots or sworn witnesses have appeared so far), I can make the same claim with equal validity.

Now if Stone claimed that the boat was owned / registered in California, then I would tend to believe the story more and think Biden was getting a West Coast boost. But the DPRK? Nah.

edit: Oh, and since Roger Stone was convicted of lying to Congress (but sentence commuted by Trump) AND this claim was presented on Alex Jones' radio show (who has his own background about ignoring the truth), I'd rate this as four Pinocchios.

[ajkula66]

I'd rate this as four Pinocchios.

My currency converter seems to be down...is that less or more than one Pochahontas ?

[rkawakami]

My currency converter seems to be down...is that less or more than one Pochahontas ?

I'd say that four Pinocchios is probably worth more (i.e., is worse of a lie) than one Pochahontas. I'll have to ask xe.com for a more accurate conversion rate .

[robert213]

The question to ask is:

Do all of us wish to live in a country where a few densely populated counties determine the outcome of our presidential elections?

Biden won 477 counties, most of them urban. Obama won 689 in 2012. Trump won 2,497 counties -- many of them by a 70/30 margin.

The Washington Post confirms this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... reversals/

In fact, Biden’s victory came largely from RUNNING UP MARGINS in the same exact counties that Hillary Clinton won four years ago.

[Ibthink]

Do all of us wish to live in a country where a few densely populated counties determine the outcome of our presidential elections?

Biden won 477 counties, most of them urban. Obama won 689 in 2012. Trump won 2,497 counties -- many of them by a 70/30 margin.

Counties don't vote. Just like land doesn't vote. The number of counties won is irrelevant, there are many counties where barely anyone lives.*

People vote. The majority of people in the USA live in big cities. That is how it is.

It is crazy that such a basic democratic rule like "all votes should count the same" doesn't apply in the US, because of the use of an antiquated indirect voting system.

*An example: Briscoe County, Texas - barely over 700 people voted here. In Dallas County, Texas, over a million people voted.

[ajkula66]

It is crazy that such a basic democratic rule like "all votes should count the same" doesn't apply in the US, because of the use of an antiquated indirect voting system.

This country was never intended to be a democracy in the first place. You don't have to believe me, read what the Founding Fathers wrote on the subject matter.

The fact that many of their original concepts got destroyed over the course of the past ~150 years or so is what brought us where we are today.

Although, in all fairness, I shouldn't say "us" since I have no right to legally vote in the USA but it was easier to structure the sentence that way...

[Ibthink]

The fact that many of their original concepts got destroyed over the course of the past ~150 years or so is what brought us where we are today.

Considering that voting rights in the USA were originally tied to property ownership, I would say that this is a good thing.

And yes, that wasn't really a democracy in the modern sense - but words can have different, changing meanings. What they set up was a state without king or aristocracy, where elected representatives would rule - in other words, a democratic republic. The group of people who could elect the representatives was just very small, but at the time, it was certainly more democratic than the absolute monarchies elsewhere.

America is definitely a Democracy in the modern sense since Andrew Jackson. A flawed one, as long as the electoral college still exists.

[ajkula66]

The fact that many of their original concepts got destroyed over the course of the past ~150 years or so is what brought us where we are today.

Considering that voting rights in the USA were originally tied to property ownership, I would say that this is a good thing.

Well once again we disagree. I'd love to see that concept brought back, and the voting age raised to let's say 30. Not that any of that is going to happen.

[unixed]

Do all of us wish to live in a country where a few densely populated counties determine the outcome of our presidential elections?

If the entities you are posing the question to are people then in a democracy you'd expect a correlation as natural as the correlation of population density to people.
When the country is a federation of states then one would expect there to be a mechanism whereby less-populated state interests are not constantly overridden by more populous states -- otherwise there is less incentive to join initially and to remain, for that matter. Others have elaborated on the electoral college in this thread.
But those are the two tiers of quantization -- people and states. It is the United States of America, not the United Counties of America.
The balance is a delicate one, since an attempt is being made to prevent a minority of states from dominating the federation of states while at the same time preventing a minority of people exercising a veto over the will of the majority of people.

[BillMorrow]

Do all of us wish to live in a country where a few densely populated counties determine the outcome of our presidential elections?

If the entities you are posing the question to are people then in a democracy you'd expect a correlation as natural as the correlation of population density to people.
When the country is a federation of states then one would expect there to be a mechanism whereby less-populated state interests are not constantly overridden by more populous states -- otherwise there is less incentive to join initially and to remain, for that matter. Others have elaborated on the electoral college in this thread.
But those are the two tiers of quantization -- people and states. It is the United States of America, not the United Counties of America.
The balance is a delicate one, since an attempt is being made to prevent a minority of states from dominating the federation of states while at the same time preventing a minority of people exercising a veto over the will of the majority of people.

counties have a lot of power.. the sheriff of each county in a constitutional officer and packs a LOT of power, or so i have been told..

i think there was a lot of discussion in the federalist papers re. mob rule vs. rule of the few, etc..
which led to the electoral college, which i think was/is a brilliant solution.. if i had my way a modified electoral college would exist within each state for statewide offices, like federal senators, governor and down ballot as far as would be appropriate..

i tend to agree with george that there was a lot of wisdom in the original requirements to vote..
it was, i think, age 21, property owner and male..
being married to a red head irish broad who while so tiny her feet rarely reach the floor packs a hard punch.. she DID grow up in derry aka londonderry in the time of the troubles.. maybe it is time to get her citizenship..

at this point, with all the evidence of shenanigans going on with voting machines, easily hack-able, with vote numbers flowing from the machine to spain to germany and then who knows where, being massaged by someone or not but no one can say for sure, massive numbers of ballots flowing here and there and stats that would allow for 1000 coin flips coming down on the edge every time it might be time to watch some unbiased news coverage, there being several available.. like one news now, and a few others i can't name just now..

[TPFanatic]

Trump has a video of something! https://www.cbs46.com/news/lawmakers-he ... b52d8.html

[mpcook]

The question to ask is:
Do all of us wish to live in a country where a few densely populated counties determine the outcome of our presidential elections?

Yes, of course. The vote of each citizen within a state should count equally in determining the electors in that state. A county boundary is irrelevant to this process. Then there are cities, townships, villages, and unincorporated areas. It is the votes of the numbers of people across the state that count in this case. And it was not a few counties that determined the outcome of the presidential election, it was the sum of results across the US.

Should the Dakotas with 1.5MM people count the same or more than the State of New York with 19.5MM? Well, they do in the Senate. That is by design. To protect the Dakotas against the New Yorkers who want to take away rights of Dakotans. Thankfully you Dakotans are safe because of the prescience of our founders who gave you four senators.

[ajkula66]

To protect the Dakotas against the New Yorkers who want to take away rights of Dakotans. Thankfully you Dakotans are safe because of the prescience of our founders who gave you four senators.

No one is safe from New Yorkers trying to take their rights away, regardless of the number of Senators... ...Barry Goldwater had it right with the idea of sawing off the entire Eastern Seaboard, but now it's too late for that, the cancer has spread...

[BillMorrow]

To protect the Dakotas against the New Yorkers who want to take away rights of Dakotans. Thankfully you Dakotans are safe because of the prescience of our founders who gave you four senators.

errr, TWO senators.. BUT the left has diluted that since, as i pointed out above someplace, the senators are now direct vote rather than appointed by each state..
[/quote]

No one is safe from New Yorkers trying to take their rights away, regardless of the number of Senators... ...Barry Goldwater had it right with the idea of sawing off the entire Eastern Seaboard, but now it's too late for that, the cancer has spread...

never surrender, never give up.. spread it has.. the mob is seeking total control and now the fight for liberty has descended upon georgia where the left is doing every dirty trick to elect two radicals to the senate..
i got a call this AM asking me to do some poll watching.. so now i'll be on the front line sniffing out illegal voters who have come into georgia, fraudulently registered to vote, are voting and then planning to return to california or NY, etc.. in fact a former candidate for governor is being investigated for importing fraudulent voters and convincing college students to register in GA to vote all so as to steal the senate.. intent is the key..

[rkawakami]

To protect the Dakotas against the New Yorkers who want to take away rights of Dakotans. Thankfully you Dakotans are safe because of the prescience of our founders who gave you four senators.

errr, TWO senators.. BUT the left has diluted that since, as i pointed out above someplace, the senators are now direct vote rather than appointed by each state..

I believe that mpcook was referring to BOTH Dakotas, as in North and South together. Ergo, a total of 4 senators.

I just ran across this news bite: https://news.yahoo.com/most-conservativ ... 43680.html

TL;DR: Matthew Sheffield, who founded conservative site NewsBusters, seems to have taken a course correction. I haven't yet listened to the podcast it referenced but plan to do so when I have an hour or so to devote.

[ajkula66]

as i pointed out above someplace, the senators are now direct vote rather than appointed by each state..

A huge personal grievance of mine that one is...

never surrender, never give up.. spread it has.. the mob is seeking total control and now the fight for liberty has descended upon georgia where the left is doing every dirty trick to elect two radicals to the senate..
i got a call this AM asking me to do some poll watching.. so now i'll be on the front line sniffing out illegal voters who have come into georgia, fraudulently registered to vote, are voting and then planning to return to california or NY, etc.. in fact a former candidate for governor is being investigated for importing fraudulent voters and convincing college students to register in GA to vote all so as to steal the senate.. intent is the key..

Good for you. If that's what you believe that needs to be done, go right ahead. My take is a bit different BUT I don't live in GA so who cares about what I think anyway.

[rkawakami]

as i pointed out above someplace, the senators are now direct vote rather than appointed by each state..

A huge personal grievance of mine that one is...

At the risk of getting further off topic, but from what I gather you're both talking about the 17th amendment. In what way(s) does popular votes for senators versus election/appointment by state legislatures a problem? A political newbie question....

edit: After a quick search on the assumed topic:

https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-factio ... t-bad-idea
https://constitutioncenter.org/interact ... nterps/147

[dr_st]

so now i'll be on the front line sniffing out illegal voters who have come into georgia, fraudulently registered to vote, are voting and then planning to return to california or NY, etc.. in fact a former candidate for governor is being investigated for importing fraudulent voters and convincing college students to register in GA to vote all so as to steal the senate.. intent is the key..

The fact that the system allows such a thing to be done with such ease is mind-boggling. I first understood the brokenness of the US system on state-vs-federal levels when I realized that there most records, even very important ones, are only tracked on state level and not federal level. For instance, you can really be married to 50 different people at 50 different states at the same time.

TL;DR: Matthew Sheffield, who founded conservative site NewsBusters, seems to have taken a course correction.

As long as you are reading about people who have taken "course corrections", as you call it, why don't you read about Dave Rubin as well?

[unixed]

being married to a red head irish broad who while so tiny her feet rarely reach the floor packs a hard punch..

It must indeed be the home of the brave if you're tangling with an Irish red head.

i tend to agree with george that there was a lot of wisdom in the original requirements to vote..
it was, i think, age 21, property owner and male..

Trying to sell that to your better half will likely garner you a discourse on legality versus justice from the Irish and a sharper one on the virtue of a straight left or right from the red head.

[cadillacmike68]

Do all of us wish to live in a country where a few densely populated counties determine the outcome of our presidential elections?

Biden won 477 counties, most of them urban. Obama won 689 in 2012. Trump won 2,497 counties -- many of them by a 70/30 margin.

Counties don't vote. Just like land doesn't vote. The number of counties won is irrelevant, there are many counties where barely anyone lives.*

People vote. The majority of people in the USA live in big cities. That is how it is.

It is crazy that such a basic democratic rule like "all votes should count the same" doesn't apply in the US, because of the use of an antiquated indirect voting system.

*An example: Briscoe County, Texas - barely over 700 people voted here. In Dallas County, Texas, over a million people voted.

At least we didn't descend in to the awful mess (and I won't put it any further than that) that some central European countries did in the late 20s and 30s.

[cadillacmike68]

To protect the Dakotas against the New Yorkers who want to take away rights of Dakotans. Thankfully you Dakotans are safe because of the prescience of our founders who gave you four senators.

No one is safe from New Yorkers trying to take their rights away, regardless of the number of Senators... ...Barry Goldwater had it right with the idea of sawing off the entire Eastern Seaboard, but now it's too late for that, the cancer has spread...

All we need to do is what lex luthor attempted in (I think) the first superman film, detonate the san andreas fault and dump the left coast into the sea.

NY is pretty much finished. All they need to do is lay the super high capacity fiber here in FL and move the stock exchanges here. We already have a LARGE internet hub here in Tampa.

[ajkula66]

NY is pretty much finished.

You have no idea how truly depressing the city has become, with a zillion stores out of business and some still boarded up...and it's not going to get any better, as long as DeBlasio and Cuomo are in charge..

All they need to do is lay the super high capacity fiber here in FL and move the stock exchanges here. We already have a LARGE internet hub here in Tampa.

You don't want those critters down there. They'll bring their insane politics and their lack of any semblance of moral compass with them.

[RealBlackStuff]

When I last renewed my Green Card, they offered to sell me US citizenship for $650 instead.
Guess what?
I did not accept their offer, who needs it?

Bill, I hate to disappoint you, but Derry/Londonderry is in Northern Ireland, which is currently part of the UK.
So officially your red head is not even Irish, she is British!
But I do not want to descend into the STOLEN land...

[TonyJZX]

so 50 losses so far... still winning?

[TPFanatic]

Trump has a video of something! https://www.cbs46.com/news/lawmakers-he ... b52d8.html

Trump has a video of nothing! https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... t-observe/

[mpcook]

Trump is going for the "Big One", joining the case at the SCOTUS. https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-cha ... eatst_pos1

[cadillacmike68]

It has some merit and precedence. If a state law or "fuhrer directive" from the idiotic govs are determined unconstitutional then there has to be a remedy. And since the states in question deliberately mixed in all the legal, ballots with (most likely) illegal ones, then they all need to go.

The supreme court HAS deemed laws to be unconstitutional in the past.