TIL: Not all T60 15" ATI systems had flexview displays.

[Glaurung-quena]

I thought that a 15" T60 with ATI graphics would automatically come with a flexview screen. I was wrong. Behold the specs (from Lenovo's Withdrawn systems document) of the 2007-57U:

Core Duo T2400 1.83 512M 15.0" XGA X1300 60G 5400 Combo ✶Intel 11a/b/g PM 6 W Feb 06

I'm not sure who this machine was for, but I spotted a couple other ATI plus XGA combos on the same page of the withdrawn systems document. What was the use case in 2006 for a discrete GPU but only XGA graphics?

[TPFanatic]

the ATI gfx in these T60 aren't even intended for games, they did some things better, some things worse than intel GMA.

ATI in particular was necessary for DVI to work as sold with the docks
see: viewtopic.php?t=36586

According to Lenovo's website:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 2#graphics

"Support for a DVI monitor (available on select models with discrete graphics chipsets) is through the ThinkPad docking options and is limited to a resolution of 60 Hz mode. "

I have no direct knowledge if DVI is supported on integrated models, but Lenovo says DVI is NOT supported. YMMV. GP

i recall many people were pee'd that Z60t/Z61t multimedia thinkpads lacked the function. they were more like wide versions of X60/X60s which also had no DVI compatability. if u wanted a thinkpad with DVI in 2006 you needed ATI GFX.

granted nowadays any Thinkpad with expresscard or a free MPCIE slot with the whitelist removed can use an EGPU to do the same thing but this hack wasn't available back then.

[Glaurung-quena]

ATI in particular was necessary for DVI to work as sold with the docks
see: viewtopic.php?t=36586

[snip]

i recall many people were pee'd that Z60t/Z61t multimedia thinkpads lacked the function. they were more like wide versions of X60/X60s which also had no DVI compatability. if u wanted a thinkpad with DVI in 2006 you needed ATI GFX.

Huh.

So you get one of these if you are planning on plugging the laptop into a (then) modern monitor at a desk, but somehow it is still important to you that you get the big, heavy 15" version of the laptop (with a huge screen) rather than a cheaper, more portable 14", yet you're OK with that huge screen on the laptop being the lowest possible resolution.

I guess they were marketing it to people with bad eyesight who needed XGA at 15", and who also needed to plug it into a big high res external monitor?

Alternate explanation: Lenovo was just putting every possible combination of components on the market to see what sold.

[TPFanatic]

Alternate explanation: Lenovo was just putting every possible combination of components on the market to see what sold.

The IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad has been an excellent example of how to perform and win in the free market

I personally have no favor for the 14" models. they feel like half-measures. i don't even like my X230 anymore. i like big computers, big cars, big laptops. whereas there are many people with the opposite view that want their things as small as possible: small laptops, small cars. then there are things that I like as small as possible, specifically smartphones and bikinis. as you aptly pointed out, you make more money by selling to more wants and needs, rather than less.

[Glaurung-quena]

Alternate explanation: Lenovo was just putting every possible combination of components on the market to see what sold.

The IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad has been an excellent example of how to perform and win in the free market

I personally have no favor for the 14" models. they feel like half-measures. i don't even like my X230 anymore. i like big computers, big cars, big laptops. whereas there are many people with the opposite view that want their things as small as possible: small laptops, small cars. then there are things that I like as small as possible, specifically smartphones and bikinis. as you aptly pointed out, you make more money by selling to more wants and needs, rather than less.

If people actually wanted small laptops, there would still be a thriving market for netbooks. Actually what people wanted in the 00's and now, is a laptop with a nice big screen that will still fit in their bag and won't weigh too much. Hence why the Macbook Air (and its many, many PC imitators) has been such a hit - big but not too big, and most important, not heavy, and not bulky.

[dr_st]

the ATI gfx in these T60 aren't even intended for games, they did some things better, some things worse than intel GMA.

Eh. The Mobility X1400 was quite reasonable for its time. Solid mid-range laptop performer. Pretty much the way the Mobility 9600 was in the T42.

ATI in particular was necessary for DVI to work as sold with the docks
see: viewtopic.php?t=36586

I have no direct knowledge if DVI is supported on integrated models, but Lenovo says DVI is NOT supported. YMMV. GP

On the T series, starting from T60, even the Intel GMA models supported DVI out.
On the integrated GPU Z series, the first and last GMA lineup to support DVI out is the "Napa Refresh" (Core 2 Duo) Z61t.
On the R series - 14" units starting from R61 supported DVI out on Intel GMA, the 15" units did not.

[TPFanatic]

fair enough. lord knows i did plenty of gaming on T42p with its FireGL T2 and my T500 with its Radeon 3650. the ATI graphics were fantastic for my 3D / CAD projects as well, regular GMA models couldn't have done those. even T500's GMA 4500 was worse for CAD than T42p's FireGL.

[Glaurung-quena]

fair enough. lord knows i did plenty of gaming on T42p with its FireGL T2 and my T500 with its Radeon 3650. the ATI graphics were fantastic for my 3D / CAD projects as well, regular GMA models couldn't have done those. even T500's GMA 4500 was worse for CAD than T42p's FireGL.

Intel graphics until very recently (some would say always): good for running the windows desktop, and truly, almost nothing else.

[axur-delmeria]

Intel graphics until very recently (some would say always): good for running the windows desktop, and truly, almost nothing else.

That changed with Tiger Lake (11th gen) with Xe graphics, after Intel poached the head of AMD's graphics division.

[Glaurung-quena]

Intel graphics until very recently (some would say always): good for running the windows desktop, and truly, almost nothing else.

That changed with Tiger Lake (11th gen) with Xe graphics, after Intel poached the head of AMD's graphics division.

In 2020. Only took them, what, 20 years?

[Glaurung-quena]

My other brain cell woke up, and I realised I could search the withdrawn systems PDF for "15.0" XGA X1" - looks like there were exactly five 15" models that had ATI and XGA, and (changing 15.0 to 14.1 and searching again) four 14" models. Out of all of the T60 SKUs (at least a hundred?). Which supports my gut feeling that that configuration option wasn't something that anyone actually wanted to buy, outside of some brain dead corporate purchasing tick box.

[kfzhu1229]

Intel graphics until very recently (some would say always): good for running the windows desktop, and truly, almost nothing else.

I'd say one other thing they were good at is reliability. NVidia graphics in 2006-2008 had their bumpgates, ATI/AMD graphics from 2008 onwards almost all were plagued with some level of bumpgate (though weren't as bad as the nvidia ones). NVidia or ATI integrated graphics? All bumpgate plagued, even the crappy AMD C-50 APU can be plagued with bumpgate.

[axur-delmeria]

Models with discrete graphics are generally less reliable compared to their integrated graphics brethren because of the additional points of failure that they bring to the table.

[Gohar]

sorry for dumb question, i joined this forum today and i want to creat my oun post in which i can explain my issue but the problem is i can not see any option to create a post... is new joiner can post or not thats all i want to know

[dr_st]

sorry for dumb question, i joined this forum today and i want to creat my oun post in which i can explain my issue but the problem is i can not see any option to create a post... is new joiner can post or not thats all i want to know

The "new topic" button is at the top left of every forum...